Mock #?? and Premed book club : )

[Guest mydream88]

Hi everyone

 

How are my fellow prepremeds doing today?

 

I have a question to pose to you that I was hoping could get us all thinking (a med school friend asked this question to a student at a medical interview once)

 

Question:

what if you were a medical student who had thus far acquired enough knowledge in school that you were able to reckognize a malignant growth on a passenger on your bus. What do you do? Is it your responsibility to let them know that they should have the growth examined or not? Is it your duty to share your knowledge with the passenger in this situation?

 

Speak to you soon,

mydream88 :rolleyes

[Guest RageoftheDragon]

If you have enough training to recognize the growth as malignant, then you've probably taken enough professional skills courses to approach the person in a way that they can be comfortable. I don't think anyone would take insult if you explained your position in life and your concern for them. I would definitely tell the person.

 

RotD

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi guys,

 

This is a situation that may be illuminated by reading Hebert's "Doing Right" (all about ethics). One vital point that seems to have been overlooked is that this person may not wish to know that they may have a malignant growth. Although you may have the power of knowledge, this does not impart the freedom to share this knowledge and concomitantly do harm related to sharing that knowledge. Indeed, in doing so, more harm than healing may be caused.

 

I'd highly recommend that book. Although you're certainly not expected to have a PhD in bioethics, for some interviews, it may help to have at least a decent grip on many ethical angles. It certainly helped me.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mydream88]

That's an excellent point Kirsteen I appreciate that recommendation for reading, I am very much an amateur when it comes to ethics! My friend who asked this question in a medical school interview was looking for the answer you provided (you got in on the button ). Basically, the issue that my friend wanted the interviewee to reckognize is that: it is not an issue about your knowledge, the most important factor in this situation is the person on the bus. They may choose not to have this growth examined or are aware of it and having treatment, either way, it is none of your concern. It is their body and their ultimate responsibility thereforth, NO MATTER what knowledge they possess.

 

But this raises another question: I was once at a party with medical students in attendance and a fight broke out: everyone left the scene after this fight, including the med students!! In this case, would it not be better to assess if the victim is hurt? Or would this put the student in danger of an unwanted lawsuit?

 

when should a medical student/doctor step forward in these situations?

 

speak to you all soon,

mydream88 :rollin

[Guest MedRxGuy]

I believe anyone (med student or not) should remain to see if anyone is hurt. However, what they do is the important issue. Until licensed to practice medicine you should only do what anyone else would... call for an ambulance if needed and provide support... i.e. CPR if trained, etc, but no diagnosis or other treatment that may do the individual any more harm. IMHO

[Guest drews97]

This would be a difficult situation but I don't think I would do anything. Unless I was actually an MD I would be VERY cautious about trying to diagnose anyone...especially in a situation as sketchy as inside a city bus. Also, there's a chance that they might know about the growth as well, who knows. Anyway, as a medical student it is not your job to give medical advice to strangers in a public setting that have what appears to be a tumor. I would probably not approach them.

[Guest mydream88]

I agree drews97,

I guess it's kinda common sense that whether or not you possess certain knowledge or abilities, until you are certified and asked to use them, it is not your responsibility to do so.

 

as well, it is true that even though it's a malignant tumour, it's HER malignant tumor and therefore, she can do what she wants with it.

 

thanks for all your input,

mydream88

p.s TGIF :rollin

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

On a related note, some of you might have heard Dr. Hebert (author of "Doing Right", mentioned previously) on the CBC news this morning. He was one of the folks fielding questions regarding the use of dirty medical equipment at Sunnybrook. Oddly, he mentioned that some patients were apparently appeased by the fact that Sunnybrook waived their parking fees when they came to the hospital to be tested for Hep and HIV infections that could have been acquired due to exposure to the dirty equipment. :rolleyes

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mydream88]

Hi ,

It is so ironic that the day after Kirsteen mentioned Dr.Hebert, he is on tv. Kirsteen, thanks, you reminded me that I must get my hands on that book 8o (is it available at Chapters?).

 

About those folks who were treated with dirty equipment: if free parking keeps them happy for now then they are truly an easygoing bunch (to say the least ) or potentially, they were unaware of the immensity of this situation upon parking or being called into the hospital (just thinking like a statistician ) which isn't right if that's the case.

 

It reminds me of when I was a waitress at a summer job. Whenever the food order wasn't right, we kept the customers busy by offering more drinks, free desserts, etc. The whole situation makes me queasy, this isn't a restaurant and the hospital is not merely entrusted with food orders, these are people's lives and well-being. It is innerving enough to not have control over one's health and to have to render that control over to the hands of health-care workers. I only hope that there weren't any serious consequences from the dirty equipment. Does anyone know yet if there were? The whole thing's 'dirty' >:

mydream88

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there mydream88,

 

I'm not sure if the book's available from Chapter's, but it certainly is available from Amazon.ca:

 

"Doing Right": $27.95Cdn

 

Incidentally, Dr. Hebert is right up there in terms of research ethics approval at Sunnybrook. He certainly knows his stuff.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mydream88]

Hi Kirsteen ,

thank you so much for the link above, it is very helpful. I think my last message appeared to have a negative tone toward Dr.Hebert and I did not intend for that to be the case. In fact, I think its really good that he is involved with this issue considering (according to you, I don't 'know' him yet though I do trust your opinion ) he is the 'big cheese' :smokin when it comes to correct ethical practice.

 

I was more disconcerted about the issue at hand: re-using dirty medical instruments. Well, on a positive note, at least this issue has been uncovered so that it may not continue to occur. It will likely find it's way- coming soon to a medical interview near you!!

 

mydream888o

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there mydream88,

 

No negative intonation noted. I simply thought I'd inject a wee Hebert factoid.

 

Good call on the interview question. That would be a good one.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mydream88]

Hello fellow premeds and the like,

after following Kirsteen's AWESOME suggestion , I made my first online purchase from amazon.ca and shortly thereafter, received the book: DOING RIGHT?: a practical guide to ethics for medical trainees and physicians.

 

This book is great ! It offers TONS of examples of real-life clinical ethical dilemmas with advice from the big guy, Dr.Hebert (oops, incidentally also the author, forgot to mention), on how to handle these situations. Ultimately we cannot assume what questions or real situations we may have to prepare for, however, this book clearly outlines how to approach such situations and what you should be thinking about.

 

I was reading this book in a public setting and a student near me appeared highly amused by my actions. I wonder if it was one of you, and perhaps that person then knew about this book and my inquiry therein? Who knows?!

 

So, thank you for the advice Kirsteen and to all: HIGHLY RECOMMEND the book. Let's start a premed book club, Oprah would certainly approve

 

I must return to reading this book!

 

until we speak again,

mydream88

[Guest Kirsteen]

A meds book club eh? Not a bad idea. Here's another recommendation from me, which I recently blethered about on another thread:

 

"Complications--A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science" by Atul Gawande.

 

This book offers some great insights into the practice of surgery, good lessons to be learned, and some valuable tidbits surrounding life as a surgical resident. It's an informative read, packed with details, and highly recommended for those considering a career in surgery.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mydream88]

I love this idea Just in time for the holiday break and cold wintery days when you would love to sit around and be hopeful about medical school :lol !

 

I am certainly going to read your recommendation ASAP Kirsteen, in return for generously sharing such excellent information, I have a book to add to the book club! I would like very much to contribute a book so I have thought about one which may interest you all. It is a heart-wrenching story, one which will no doubt leave you with a big lump in your throat and a strong desire to remain determined at pursuing medicine. This is the tale of a young cancer patient and her family. It is a wonderful, rare opportunity to gain perspective about their journey.

 

For any of us interested in pediatrics in general or pediatric oncology in particular, or volunteering with young children, etc, etc., this is the book for you!

 

the amazon link is:

Hanna's Gift: Lessons from a Life Fully Lived

 

please update me if you have the opportunity to read it.

mydream88;)

[Guest mydream88]

Hi,

I am excited to share a new book with you guys!

 

It is called:

 

The spirit catches you and you fall down: A Hmong child, her American doctors, and the collison of two cultures.

 

author: Anne Fadiman

 

this is a great read so far. It has humor and seems to delve into some great topics that touch on dealing with different patients, being sensitive to cultural differences, epilepsy, etc.

 

It is not so much a technical read as a story (though it is a true story). One of my best friends read this book for an Anthropology course and has mentioned that her professor told the class that this book is a required read for some medical schools.

 

I hope you have a chance to check it out, and I hope you enjoy it

 

mydream88:D

 

p.s. do you guys know of any good books that would explain some of our health crises/the healthcare system in Canada/Ontario