Undergrad Univ

[Guest JimmyDragon]

Does The Univ i go to matter for my undergrad studies? Cause Im Attending U of T right now and i hear its a lot harder then other schools which is gonan cause my gpa to go down. Quote from a prof "If U want an A in calculus go to york". So If My GPa Drops low this year im consideing takin his advice if it would have no consequences otherwise.

[Guest aneliz]

Your undergrad school/program has ZERO effect on your chances of admission...provided that you take a full course load and get a decent GPA, it really doesn't matter. We have students from every undergrad institution in Canada (from Mt A to UBC...including the smaller schools such as Windsor, Laurentian, Laurier, Guelph, Brock and York). We also have people that did everything from industrial engineering to comparative religion - your undergrad program will not make or break your application - but your GPA will!

 

Do what makes you happy.

[Guest BlueyR6]

I don't think the issue is quite black and white so as to say that one's undergrad school/program has ZERO effect on chances of admission. For example, UofT's admissions website says:

"The coherence and rigour of the program of study, and the relative standing of the applicant in that program will be assessed in the interpretation of GPA. Prospective applicants are encouraged to pursue challenging and rigourous courses of study, as this will not jeopardize their chance of successful application." (http://www.library.utoronto.ca/medicine/educational_programs/admissinfo.html)

 

To my knowledge, UofT is the only school that has explicitly stated something to this extent while the majority of schools say they give no preference to the undergraduate program of study. It’s hard to speculate what goes on behind closed doors and whether and to what extent biases held by the faculty will come into play when looking over candidates' UG programs. I am not sure how much weight these factors carry in making or breaking the academic component of your application, but I would bet a strong GPA from wherever could not significantly be affected by any GPA-fudging the schools attempt.

[Guest steak]

It's also worth considering your prof's comments with a grain (or several) of salt - many schools have stigmas for being more difficult than others, but I can speak from experience and say that when it comes to "objective" courses (scientific, technical, etc.) the material taught is the same everywhere, particularly in lower years (ie: the ones most relevant to your meds application, if that is a priority)

 

good luck

steak

[Guest peachy]

I agree with Steak - calculus is calculus, the textbooks are pretty much the same at every school, and you need to know how to do the problems in the text. Seriously, don't let your prof demoralize you - chances are that lots of people in your class will get A's despite what he says. Maybe it's superficially easier elsewhere because profs are more approachable, more interested in teaching, etc, but the content is likely to be almost the same everywhere.

 

Like at UWO, there are definitely people here at U of T from lots of different undergraduate schools. My interpretation of the clause quoted above is primarly that they want you to take a real program of study - not a mishmash of easy courses designed only to get you into medical school.

 

Anyways, this kind of issue has been discussed extensively in the past, in threads like this one.

 

Edited to add: I took first year calculus at U of T, and then later TA'd for first year calculus at York, so I do have some perspective. As UWOMED pointed out below, the difficulty of getting a good grade depends very much on the prof. There were no doubt some iterations of that course that were easier than what I took at U of T, but there were also, equally, no doubt some iterations where it was harder to get a good grade. In terms of learning, the material really is largely the same all the time, though, imho.

[Guest aneliz]

To give you some idea of 'what goes on behind closed doors'...

 

At UWO it doesn't matter if the faculty have any biases...because the GPA cuts are set by computer scanning all of the applicants' GPAs...straight up...no bias involved.

 

Everyone that meets the cuts (from all schools and from all programs with NO fudging at all...because it is done by computer) gets an interview.

 

At the interview, your interviewers have NO idea what program/school you come from unless YOU tell them. They have no access to any of your biographical materials.

 

Only AFTER the new class has been admitted, is a retrospective look at the schools that they came from undertaken...and it is done purely for 'interest' - not to affect the process for the next cycle.

[Guest dogeatdog12]

First of all York is NOT easier than U of T despite what people say. if York was easier than the university would have no credibility. if you think by going to York you're guaranteed a 4.0, you're wrong.

 

However, I disagree with students saying "calculus is calculus". Although the material is the same, many schools treat their courses and students differently. For example, U of T now has organic chemistry in first year. I know from personal example meeting students from Dal, that i have worked much harder for my grades. It's not to say they're dumb, but just less was expected for the same mark.

 

Overall, you don't know how you're going to perform at a university before you go. you can prepare and plan to make it a success but there are no guarantees.

 

Last piece of advice. go to the schools, and ask yourself "can I spend four years studying here?"

 

that's it. I'm not a med student, so I can't give any other piece of advice.

[Guest BlueyR6]

Hey Aneliz, you make a strong case for UWO and I agree...unless the computers fudge the GPA's (kidding!). I was instead thinking of a school like UofT where applicants have to divulge their undergraduate program/reasons for entering that program in the personal essay.

[Guest GrdInquisitor]

I did a psych specialist at UofT, and I can tell you for a fact that having gone over the psych exams at UT and the psych exams at York and Western, that the former tend to be more difficult. It's the nature of the beast, when you have two class sections of 1200+ people in each of them. In first year, many classes end up being, despite what professors may say, weeder courses. If you find that you are putting a hell of a lot of effort into your program and you are not producing the marks you want consider 1) changing into a program that you enjoy more, as marks will usually follow what you're interested in or 2) changing universities, as each school will have a different approach to educating its students. Unfortunately, UofT's approach tends to be very cold and detached. This is not just me saying this, I have several people in my med class right now who have harped about this topic for a very long time. The point is, that you should always, always do the thing that you enjoy, study fine arts if you want to, as long as you can produce the GPA and as long you have the pre-requisites for the school's you intend to apply to. My two cents.

[Guest Ibraheem]

its kind of surprising how many times the same question pops up here and there

[Guest UWOMED2005]

In med school, I've found some PROF's questions harder than other PROF's questions. Do I think that indicates UWO is harder than U of T for medicine?

 

Same went for me in undergrad - I had one course where only one A+ had been handed out in 25 years. They gave out 1 A and 2 A-s to a class of 200. That's a whole lot of students with sub-med school GPAs. . . in fact, as there are about 38 former U of T first year biology students in my med school class alone, I'm pretty damn sure U of T 1st year biology hands out more that 1 A per 200 students. On the other hand, I had another course where the class average was an A-.

 

That's why I think this whole "my university is bigger* than your university" argument a lot of BS. You could say "Dr. Queen was a harder marker than Dr. York" but to say a whole school is harder is circumspect, particularly so when ONE HAS NEVER BEEN TO THE OTHER SCHOOL (This comment is obviously NOT directed at the student who did psych at both U of T and York.)

 

Now as far as whether your choice of undergrad school affects your chances for acceptance, well of course it does. If you go to a school you hate and don't fit in, go crazy and spend your third year tuition on scraps of metal to "build a satellite to communicate to God what a @#%$ school the University of Thimphu is" then it is unlikely you will be accepted to med school. But other than that, Aneliz is right- what school you go to has very little bearing on your chances of acceptance.** I can't really see how it could. Truth be told, there simply is no real way to accurately and fairly account for university AND course of study AND individual prof's marking styles FOR the 1500-3000 applicants that apply to each med school every year. To do so would be absurd and result in chaos.

 

* Whoops, that should read longer. Whoops, I mean harder. Whoops. . . oh god. . . pardon the double entendre.

 

** There is some suggestion U of T assesses UG course of study when evaluation students. Personally, I can't see how they'd assess this fairly but based on some of the stories I've heard from friends who applied more years than one, or some of the stories I've seen posted on this board over the last 3 years I'm not sure U of T worries too much about evaluating students fairly at all, so I'll concede it's possible this has an impact for U of T. As I know of numerous students from pretty much every school @ U of T, though, I doubt the impact is great.

[Guest Elliott]

I find it funny how many people continuously mention topics that have been asked/discussed many times before, referring to the monotony of previously discussed topics. Is it as if you never had these questions as a pre-med/early pre-med? Have you looked in the old threads to try and find the answer to your questions to no avail? Did you always know all the answers?

I find it disheartening when I see smart aleck responses to new comers' questions... It is one thing to provide them with the link to the previous information but another to make snide remarks about "here we go again..."

Don't you think that it is your responsibility as an experienced pre-med/medical student to direct and help those who follow in your footsteps? Wouldn't you have appreciated that when you where first considering the world of medicine?

The world of medicine is competitive but to turn your nose at those who "don't know" is rather rude in my opinion. The information you need to acquire to start working towards medical school is tremendous.

If you are sick of the topic and don't care to provide advice, don't reply.

One day everyone on this board will move on and gradually post less and less. In five years from now, is someone not going to ask a question because it was asked five years ago? I highly doubt it. New comers are important. Lighten up.

 

Elliott

[Guest peachy]

I find it disheartening when I see smart aleck responses to new comers' questions...

I just reread the thread, and didn't see anything that I personally found particularly "smart-alecky". What is it that offended you? Were you referring to my post?

 

Personally, I think it is very useful to refer to recent posts that have exactly the same information as what the new post is referring to. Especially if I already posted my opinion or answer on that thread, because then I don't have to retype it.

[Guest Elliott]

Hi Peachy,

 

Sorry I realize I need to clarify something here - first and foremost that my comment was most definitely not directed at you. I believe your referral to be exemplary of how we should be handling these types of questions.

I was put off by the short comment above regarding how many times this question pops up. I read it now and realize that perhaps I may have overreacted. I feel that the short comment was like many that I have read before. I have lately been considering expressing my thoughts around these types of comments as a thread of its own. I posted in a moment's response to my already brewing thoughts.

Thanks for asking me to clarify. You are definitely right about referrals to other threads so as not to have to retype the entire advice and information.

 

Cheers,

 

Elliott

[Guest purine5]

"If u want A on Calculus then go to York,"

I think i know who u are talking about.

Lucky u have that class.

 

I am in 1st life sci at Ut as well... now it's 3 a.m.

and I was thinking about the same thing and visited

this forum to seek advice.

 

so u don't seem to like UT..

me? my GPA is dropping down 20% (darn it!)

My Bio TA seems not caring for class.

 

I totally screwed first 2 tests because, I couldn't

adjust with those huge size class and was totally panic.

 

I don't like this huge size classes, however,

I will just wait til the end of this yr how this goes

cuz.. I already paid tuition.

 

Good Luck.

[Guest 007]

Hi,

 

Here at Queen's, the class averages for my year have gone up considerably since first year, so don't get too discouraged. In first year, most of the class averages were around 69-71%. In second year, for a lot of my classes, the average jumped to 79%. In first year, second semester is a lot easier too because you are more used to everything so don't freak out too much yet. If you're really feeling disadvantaged at UofT, your expectation that you "can't" do well may be holding you back. You can try to work at maintaining a positive outlook, or alternatively you can always transfer to another school for second year. Good luck!

 

-007

[Guest JimmyDragon]

of course the material is teh same and u will learn basicaly the same thing but some profs make tests inorder to lower the gpa not test on knowledge we should kno. Also overall schools may have the same average gpa, however, some schools will have harder life sci clases and soem wont

[Guest dogeatdog12]

first of all profs don't make harder tests because THEY want to lower GPAs. Most of the time it's the universities who set standards on what certain courses should be. if you're going to U of T no more than 20% can get above 80% for a class greater than 30 people.

 

Certainly some profs like their courses to be taken seriously so they will make their courses harder than others. But to say they give tests that don't test you on knowledge is not 100% false. Most of the time (at u of T), it's because the professor wasn't clear on what they wanted or the tests tests were meant to be hard because it's an honors class (ex. Upper level Chemistry courses).

 

Anyway, I hope that helps.

[Guest kyouou]

I was in UT for my undergrad and the thing that I found out was that UT cares a lot more about the class average than most of the other smaller schools and to me that puts the students at a greater disadvantage cause to a certain extent because if the whole class ever did well on one test u can bet that in the next exam, they will try to kill u. Now in med school, though its so strange and ironic to me that they don't care about the average and our class averages are so high that they would be unheard of in undergrad.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

In med school, you're also somewhat skimming off the top. While a class average of 87% might seem absurd, when almost nobody in the class averaged under 80% throughout undergrad it's quite understandable.

[Guest dogeatdog12]

but isn't medicine suppose to work the "cream of the crop" even more? why the high averages? isn't med school where they should work you so you can become a good physician?

 

btw, I am not starting a debate. I just wanted to know if that was the case.

[Guest peachy]

trust me, they DO work us hard

[Guest dogeatdog12]

is the workload even more? I mean is the workload greater than undergrad? or is the material being taught harder?

 

thanks

[Guest UWOMED2005]

The workload is harder. The material is about the same as a BSc in a fairly advanced subject. . . but it's also more varied. The kind of thinking you need for anatomy is way different than that for biochemistry or than that for the psychosocial issues course which is part of most med school curriculae.

[Guest OncologyMike]

peachy said:

 

I agree with Steak - calculus is calculus, the textbooks are pretty much the same at every school, and you need to know how to do the problems in the text. Seriously, don't let your prof demoralize you - chances are that lots of people in your class will get A's despite what he says. Maybe it's superficially easier elsewhere because profs are more approachable, more interested in teaching, etc, but the content is likely to be almost the same everywhere.

 

Is this in fact true? I have a brother that finished Chem-eng at Waterloo and the stigma is their program is thee end all to be all in terms of difficulty. I happen to have some engineering friends who believe this about waterloo's program also, despite some having gone to other schools.

 

Do the profs brainwash their students into believing they're the greatest? Whats the Engineering pride all about?