How Are Fellowships Funded?

[ellorie]

I'm wondering - if you want to do a PGY6 in something that is not an official Royal College fellowship (so for my specialty, something other than child, geri, or forensics), how can that get funded?  Particularly if you want to do something clinically oriented and so would not be able to fund it through research grants.

[Lactic Folly]

People offering the fellowship would fund you. In that case, it wouldn't officially be a PGY-6 year, but just a clinical fellowship.

[ellorie]

So essentially if I wanted to do a fellowship in a particular area of interest, I would have to convince the department to find funding for a fellow?

[Lactic Folly]

I don't know too much about psychiatry in particular, but I looked at a few links that suggest that either the department funds an established fellowship position (presumably the service component of the fellowship enables this), or that the fellow supplements through their own billings. Likely people in your department would be able to provide more specifics.

 

http://www.ucalgary.ca/psychiatry/node/116

http://medicine.dal.ca/departments/department-sites/psychiatry/education/fellowships.html

http://www.med.uottawa.ca/psychiatry/eng/fellow_funding.html

[mononoke]

It seems like fellows are paid like an extension of residency...

[ellorie]

It seems like fellows are paid like an extension of residency...

 

Not all of them - if it's a Royal College fellowship like child or geriatrics or forensics, you are.  If it's non-Royal College, I think you have to work it out yourself, either by billing, or with a grant, or whatever.

[_ _]

Not all of them - if it's a Royal College fellowship like child or geriatrics or forensics, you are.  If it's non-Royal College, I think you have to work it out yourself, either by billing, or with a grant, or whatever.

Does it get counted in your residency years (like you would get 6th year pay if you just finished a 5 year residency) or does it restart at year 1? For the Royal College ones

[mononoke]

Not all of them - if it's a Royal College fellowship like child or geriatrics or forensics, you are.  If it's non-Royal College, I think you have to work it out yourself, either by billing, or with a grant, or whatever.

How do you work it out yourself? You can literally make it anything in that case...and how would it be called a 'fellowship' if it's not accredited?

[JohnGrisham]

How do you work it out yourself? You can literally make it anything in that case...and how would it be called a 'fellowship' if it's not accredited?

There are quite a few fellowships that are not royal-college accredited, in niche areas and emerging fields(or so they think etc).

[Lactic Folly]

Does it get counted in your residency years (like you would get 6th year pay if you just finished a 5 year residency) or does it restart at year 1? For the Royal College ones

If Royal College, should be paid by MOH and continue at PGY-6.

[ellorie]

How do you work it out yourself? You can literally make it anything in that case...and how would it be called a 'fellowship' if it's not accredited?

 

Like for example if I wanted to do an extra year of training in early psychosis.

 

There's no Royal College standard for what a fellowship in that would look like, and I wouldn't get any extra credential or diploma.  But I'd be registered as a clinical fellow with the CPSO and the university, I'd have to justify my learning objectives to the department, and it would give me the chance to get extra supervised training in a more subspecialty area before practicing on my own.

 

It seems like the consensus is that you would generally just bill fee for service, which makes sense to me.

[thestar10]

Like for example if I wanted to do an extra year of training in early psychosis.

 

There's no Royal College standard for what a fellowship in that would look like, and I wouldn't get any extra credential or diploma. But I'd be registered as a clinical fellow with the CPSO and the university, I'd have to justify my learning objectives to the department, and it would give me the chance to get extra supervised training in a more subspecialty area before practicing on my own.

 

It seems like the consensus is that you would generally just bill fee for service, which makes sense to me.

I don't think you would bill fee for service as a psych

Fellow. The fellows who bill FFS tend to be the surgeons who bill FFS on call (the regular cases in the day are billed by the staff). (They essentially work during the day for free for the opportunity to bill after hours)

 

At the fellow level you, are probably making money for them (because there is a fellow there they can book more patients etc) and the department pays you a salary knowing that you are at least a cost neutral/economic asset to them.

[penguin92]

I don't think you would bill fee for service as a psych

Fellow. The fellows who bill FFS tend to be the surgeons who bill FFS on call (the regular cases in the day are billed by the staff). (They essentially work during the day for free for the opportunity to bill after hours)

At the fellow level you, are probably making money for them (because there is a fellow there they can book more patients etc) and the department pays you a salary knowing that you are at least a cost neutral/economic asset to them.

Fellow level surgeons can bill as surgical assist for any cases they scrub in on with their staff

[NLengr]

Fellow level surgeons can bill as surgical assist for any cases they scrub in on with their staff

Only certain cases (aka ones that qualify for assist fees).

 

I know surgical fellows who keep all their billings, ones who have to give a % to the program (for example 30%) and ones who give all their billings to the program and are paid a salary from those billings (which is less than the amount they bill).