Mcmaster's Bachelor of Health Sciences

[Guest Shidi]

Hello all,

 

Does anyone know a friend or family member that is taking the Bachelor of Health Sciences course (@ Mcmaster) course? Or have you been exposed to it yourself? I am interested to know how well it is suited to teaching the material you need to know for a career as a doc.

 

Thanks ,

 

Chris

[Guest Uche]

Hi,

I'm a third year biology and Psych student at Mac. I know people who are in the bachelor of Health sciences program. From what I gather they take very much the same things as people in biology or other related program except that it is regarded as the 'premed' program. And you have to write an essay to get in (reminds you of med school?). I think they are required to take a bioethics course and some courses on health care issues. The work load is about the same as the other sciences. This is still a very new program (the oldest class is in 2nd year) so things may change in third year. Hope this helps.

 

Uche.

[Guest Shidi]

Hello Uche,

 

Thanks so much for the info, it has helped to give an insight into what the program is like. And yes the essay does sound like a med school kinda thing hehe

 

Thank you again!

 

Chris

[Guest Flygal]

My sister is in the BHSc. Programme. That class is insane, the average GPA is like an A-. They are basically being trained to do well in any medical school especially McMasters (go figure eh?). The workload is pretty tough in second year according to my sister and the people in the class are very very dynamic. High GPAs, great extracirriculars, etc. So to answer your question, yes, they are being prepared to be excellent candidates for medical school, but also for other occupations in health care. Thank God I'm an engineer.

I wouldn't want to be competing with that group.

In case you wanna know why I'm here, it is because my boyfriend is in U of T medical school and he showed me this message. So we will have to wait and see how successful this group is but I think they are a threat.

[Guest bad hombre]

I was pretty interested in the Bachelor of health sciences program at Mac when I applied for undergrad. It's too bad I didn't get the application package from Mac until April of my senior year. The brilliant people at Mac admissions forgot to send it by air mail to Ethiopia (where I went to high school). Who doesn't send an application package to Ethiopia by air mail???!!!

 

NOw that all of you are talking about how great this new program is, I feel as if I've been robbed of the right to atleast apply to this 'guaranteed interview'. What do you other non-Mac undergrads think of the potential competition offered by the med applicants from this program? Do you guys kinda get the feeling that these comments so far have been a little biased? How great are the extra-currics of these applicants?

[Guest bad hombre]

one more question...

 

will the first wave of these super mac kids be applying next year?

[Guest SmileyKitty]

I'm in the programme and a lot of my peers have incredible extracurriculars: From student government to overseas volunteering, to lab/research jobs and they did all this in their first year. A few perfect GPAs and some very close to perfect. BTW who is your sister flygal? I wonder if I know her. Some of the people in my class including myself are going to apply next year I guess. It is unfortunate to hear that they didn't send you a package in the mail, I'll have to ask the admissions office about that tommorrow, but from what I know, I don't think we received an applicant from Ethiopia. If we did, we'd all know about it . I know one person who has written his MCATs already and had a strong score, 14 PS, 12 BS, 8VR (which is a little weaker compared to the rest of his scores) and I think a Q on the writing sample. It's a great programme, it teaches us how to use and apply problem based learning in our studies and everyday lives, we get to use cadavers in anatomy class, and we learn about health psychology. A very diverse array of health-oriented courses I'd say. I know it may sound biased but I wouldn't trade this opportunity for any other undergraduate programmes even though I'm sure they can be very nice.

[Guest macMDyear3]

Hi there SmileyKitty

 

I have seen your posts in the other threads and although your enthusiasm for the Bachelor of Health Sciences program at Mac is commended, I think you are not seeing the big picture. You are correct in understanding that Medical schools require diversity, and it is for that very reason that very few BHSC graduates will get into Mac's program. I believe the target is set at 7. So that is 7 out 100+ grads from that program. (Trust me on this I've been one of the student reviewers on the application commitee for the past 2 years). It is for this reason that you may actually limit your chances for getting into medicine (at MAC anayways). To be very honest with you, when we fill out the initial evaluations, everyone says it's like watching the same boring movie over and over and over again: Biology major, GPA 3.8, Hospital volunteer, Int'l volunteer internship, played on school team, worked in lab. When you have seen this literally 600-800 times you start to lose interest. This will also be the result of viewing 100+ applications from the Bhsc program. To be honest with you the appropriate advice is to take a subject that really seems interesting to YOU and say to yourself I want to apply myself to this subject and get involved in it with the assumption that I will never see this area of study again. These make truly outstanding candidates who bring a lot to the class. After reading about the 578th Bio applicant described above, I came across a Poli Sci major who actually was instrumental in changing over 10 legislations in Ontario. He also worked as a campaign manager during his summers and wrote two published papers on political intervention and soultions for health care. When I showed the others on the admission panel they were jumping for joy at this "interesting candidate". Never volunteered at a hospital, never set foot inside a lab but rather explored his interests.

 

So Kittiekat your Bhsc program is a good introduction to problem based learning, however it is not by any means a ticket into the MD program, nor is it comparable in any way to the worload or level of difficulty of the MD program. To advise students to rush out for the Bsch program in the hopes of securing a place in medical school is extremely misleading.

 

Good luck to everyone, There are days when I wonder why we fought this hard to get into this hell but nearing the end I can say it has been worth it!

 

I have posted this elsewhere under Smileykitty's other comments where it may bemore relevant. I just don't want people to be misinformed!

[Guest bad hombre]

macMDyear3,

 

thanks for your insightful post. the thing is, i'm pretty similar to your described "typical" mac applicant: Bio major, 3.85 GPA, lived in 4 overseas countries, overseas volunteering, high school sports teams, volunteered at hospital, play instrument...

I guess the only thing that sets me apart from the Mac kids is living overseas, and going to a different Ontario school. So that kind of sucks, because i feel i'll be in direct competition with them for some places. (sigh) I guess i'll just have to let my other inner qualities shine at the interview... if I can get one.

 

smileykitty,

i'm not sure how you would have learnt you had an applicant from ethiopia. this was back in 2000 (i'm a second year student). plus, i had gotten accepted and been walking around, you wouldn't have guessed ET . I applied through the ouac as early as possible in 99, but the secondary thing where Mac sends you the essay question etc didn't get to me till april, they must have sent it by sea. whereas i received my ACCEPTANCES to other ontario universities around march.

 

well, it's comforting to know i can actually stand out by not having gone to mac, though i'm sure it would have been a positive experience

[Guest strider2004]

SmileyKitty,

I can understand that the student in the BHSc program would be stellar. By getting into that program, you've already set yourself apart from other students throgh your high school performance. This is also probably a very tough major. If we take the students in your class and put them into another major like human bio, do you think they would get higher marks? Med schools in Canada look at the grades and unfortunately not the difficulty of the program. I myself majored in biophysics and from an applicant standpoint it probably wasn't the best thing to do. I would have gotten higher marks in psychology.

 

The extracurricular activites of your classmates are not due to the strength of the program but are due to the character of your classmates themselves. They obivously know what they want and how to get it and I think they would have done well in any program, not just BHSc.

 

One thing I am wary about is the competitiveness. When you put yourself into a pool of sharks, you either become a shark or become bait. It's not a good learning environmment(unless you're a shark and NEED the competition) and a better doctor it does not necessarily make. Traits like compassion and understanding don't come from a classroom.

 

bad hombre,

Your strength is in your overseas experience. I guarantee you'll get a question on that in your interviews and depending how you handle it, it can take your ENTIRE interview and you'll be REMEMBERED as the one who travelled. That's a good thing because many interviews aren't memorable.

[Guest Ian Wong]

I think Strider2004 has made an excellent post above. I think going to UVic or undergrad was an excellent choice due to the lack of competition, and general friendliness of my classmates. Not having gone to Mac's BHSc program, I wouldn't know what the environment was like, but if I had to guess, I'd say there would be quite a bit of competition, and a number of cliques, especially when you put a small number of highly-qualified individuals together over a period of several years, each with the goal of getting into a professional program.

 

At the same time, it sounds like the exposure that the students there are getting is pretty amazing. I would have loved to see cadavers and such during undergrad anatomy; we had plastic models instead...

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest SmileyKitty]

Well how does BHSC's marks compare with human bio? Well I'd say it's pretty good considering that half of the class has a GPA between 3.8-4.0. It's the other half that brings it down. You are right about the characteristics of the ppl who got in --getting all those experiences being from character and not the programme and that is true. In terms of competition you couldn't more wrong, there is actually a lot of collaboration among students to work together. Being a small programme, everyone knows each other and most people get along just fine. Most of the students have set high standards for themselves so they have a drive to do well and that may be the only "competition" that you refer to. Overall, the people work together and any competition is healthy because it brings out everyone's "A GAME." So all I have to say is that we will see how good these people are after 2003, and 2004 when the first batch actually graduate. I think 2004 is when you will get a real answer.

[Guest SmileyKitty]

I've just realized I forgot to mention something and to re-answer a question, it was asked how these health scis would fare in other majors. Well the way I see it is this: McMaster bascially took a good number of the top students in high school, so it is almost certain and I use this term almost very carefully, that a lot of these students if the BHSc programme did not exist would probably be in Science of some sort and still be achieving the same marks. When compared with regular science students at Mac, having taken the same courses, the Health Sci's average was significantly higher than those in Science. The Top half of the distribution in a science class would have 90% of the Health Science class. So I guess that would be the evidence. I think an advantage that the BHSc programme brings is that it provides the student with opportunities that regular science students would not usually get, such as easier access to the professors, friendly-relationships with the admins office (and that's how I can find out whether or not there was an applicant from ethiopia) and the chance to work with a group of selected high calibre students. Also the courses are really interesting and provides a very diverse exposure to the field of health.

[Guest bad hombre]

smileykitty,

 

if you're that friendly with the admissions office, just let them know what they did to me, and maybe tell them to make sure it doesn't happen when my brother applies from Peru in a couple of years. Tell them they were just a tad incompetent a couple of years back. From what you've been saying about the BHSc, the content doesn't sound much different than Queen's lifesci, but smaller and less cut-throat. I am impressed, however, with the 'non-competitiveness' you claim your program posseses.

[Guest bad hombre]

strider,

 

thanks a lot for the advice, i'm sure it'll come in handy when i put in my application next year. i figure that if i can get an interview i should be in pretty good shape. i think i'll be okay since i practice the 'overseas' thing a lot when i meet people (chicks)... jokes. oil thigh na ban raghin

[Guest cheech10]

I know a bunch of people in the program and well, it's a good program but by no means a guarrantee of anything.

 

As for the remarks of being trained to do well in med school etc., when arts majors and others are being accepted, preparation isn't that important. The ingredients for a successful application are high marks to surpass any cut offs and interesting/varying/unique volunteer/extra-currics. The marks can be found in any program and the extra-currics are up to the student, so I don't thing the program is spectacularly suited to med school prep or anything.

 

Where this program is strong is in the content. Anatomy and other classes typically taught only to meds students are offered to undergrads, which is a very rare thing.

 

So overall I think you have to pick your reasons for entering this program or any program. If your only goal is to get into meds, then a program where you can get spectacular marks is probably your best bet. But if you want an interesting program with some unique experiences etc. then this might be the program for you.

[Guest strider2004]

I just want to do a bit of scenario work.

 

Let's say we have 50 of the brightest people in Ontario.

Plan A: They all go to UofT and take human bio. They average between 90-95%, score over 32Q on the MCAT and found their own clubs. They all get into med schools across Canada.

 

Plan B: They all go to Mac for the BHSc program and score between 85-95%, over 32Q and found some new clubs. They all get into med schools across Canada.

 

Nothing had changed. They haven't been moulded into elite medical *german accent* uber soldiers. If you take a poll of med students across Canada, you'll find that a whle bunch were classmates in undergrad. Heck, I can rhyme off 20 or so med students across Canada from my HIGH SCHOOL.

 

The only thing that the BHSc changes is the path that students take to get to med school. The good ones will make it there anyway, no matter what program they take(except computer engineering in Waterloo, they like to fail people). I think that we will see a lot of BHSc majors getting into med school, but I REFUSE to credit the program for that. I credit the students.

[Guest Shidi]

I have to agree totally with you Strider, it is not the program that puts the student into an MD program it is the student himself or herself.

 

However, I think if a person has done really well in High School and has the ability and skill to keep up with Mac's BHSc program and wishes to pursue any type of medical related career, it would be a great opportunity to experience things specifically related to that field of learning. It gives them a glimpse of what they will be experiencing in an MD program (given that an MD program will have a much greater workload).

 

But I think this program can have many advantages to those who are accepted to it. It is not a ‘guaranteed’ ticket into a med school, but it does have a lot of material geared towards a future in medical schools, which some schools might like.

 

Just my two cents worth

 

Chris

[Guest strider2004]

That is very true Chris.

The Bachelor of Health Sciences program provides a curriculum similar to that of a medical school with a lighter load. A student has just finished 4 years of a very interesting program. Now that student is in med school and has to do the entire thing over again. Will it be as interesting? Probably not. Med school is interesting but not so interesting that I'd do it twice. I suggest majoring in something really cool that you won't be able to get in med school.

 

I have to admit I have some...hmm..prejudice..against programs like this because they market themselves as 'pre-med' programs and don't allow students to explore other avenues. It's website says that it prepares students for medicine, dentistry, rehab, health-related business....what about research? The program doesn't prepare students for graduate studies in reseaarch, the foundation for medical innovation. Even UWO's Medical Sciences bachelor degree says it prepares students for research while fulfilling the prereqs for medicine and dentistry. If a person enrolls in the BHSc and decides that professional school isn't for them, then they're screwed.

 

I'd much rather follow a program like UWO's Scholars Electives program. Basically, you follow any path that you would like and take any courses that interest you. As long as you keep your grades up(above 80%) then the faculty will let you do whatever you want. You have to freedom do explore all interests. I sorta did this program(sidecut into biophysics) and had almost enough credits of philosophy to get a minor(5 full-year courses).

 

What I found about medicine was that it's not all the class stuff that's interesting. I can't wait to get into the hospital and do what Ian and Carolyn are doing. All the classroom and PBL stuff is just to give you enough knowledge to competently treat patients in the hospital. I don't think that any undergrad program can give the medical experience without patient interaction/clinical skills instruction.

 

Medicine will soon envelope your entire life. Please waste your undergrad on basic science and arts and other fun stuff. You'll be richer for the experience.

[Guest Uche]

As for trying to see how people in BHSc will do in other programs, keep in mind that this does not only depend on the "difficulty" of the program, but also on how well the person is suited for that program. Many people say Psychology is easy. I am a third year Biology and Psychology major at Mac. I do better in the courses on the Bio side of my program than the psych side. My point? You can't really compare BHSc. students with people who are doing raw Bio or chemistry, etc.

 

Secondly, I think your program is less diverse than you realize. Have you looked at your calender lately to see what they've got lined up for you for your next 2 years? Apart from electives, EVERYBODY is taking the same courses. You don't have any choice within the health science courses. Further more, most of these courses are bio and psych courses disquised with the HTH SCI prefix. You're probably gonna have the same profs that taught me teaching you next year. If you think I'm kidding you, check your calendar. So in the end, all you really have is probably an interesting program with few choices, and no opportunity to branch into feilds other than health care.

[Guest Carolyn]

Think about the make-up of the MD class and many of the faculty (Mac MD Alumni)... many of us have a non-science background -- so many of us don't believe that it is necessary to have all those courses before coming in. In my class there are only 4 - 5 mac grads I think - One from fine arts, two from the biopharm co-op program, and another from a social sciences... I can only reiterate what all the med students have said above... do a degree in something you find interesting not a programme which you think will guarantee you a spot in a med school (because there are no such programmes!)

 

Being at mac and quite involved in the MD programme I must be honest that I haven't heard a lot about the Bachelor of Health Science programme. I find it interesting that the original writer believes that they are going to have a better chance to get in to Mac's programme given that specific undergrad programme...I must admit the only comments I've heard from peers about the undergrads in the building are about how noisy and crowded the library and homebase is now... not a whole lot about the curriculum... I'm sure it is a great programme and probably quite fun with a great group of people -- I don't think it is going to harm you that's for sure!

 

 

take care... and enjoy your holidays!

[Guest SmileyKitty]

HEHE, I got everyone all wound up. Wow you people sound really really angry. Man that strider dude is all about the hardcore science stuff eh?

 

Well, you are right, there are a lot of morons in my programme, so they probably won't make it. I never said everyone would make it, all I said is that there is a good chance that a lot of them will.

 

I know I'm basically in already. Got the marks and the MCATS done with and met. A few good references, yep I'm in the clear, I'll see you sometime soon in medical school. I'll probably go to McGill. BOO YEAH!

[Guest Ian Wong]

Good luck to you. Perhaps we'll meet out there someday.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest bubba]

bad hombre

 

I support Carolyn's comments but if you really want to do a program like MAC's Bachelor of Health Science consider University of Guelph's Biomedical Sciences. I here it is an excellent program.

[Guest bubba]

SmileyKitty

 

You may have the marks and the MCAT scores but I would question your confidence in getting into McGill. I know McGill undergrads with extremely high GPAs and MCATs that couldn't get in but are in Ontario medical schools. Unless you are a resident of Quebec I wouldn't be hopefull.

 

I really do wish you good luck though