Chances at Qc med schools?

[vegemitesandwich]

Hello,

I’m someone that did a university program in Quebec (McGill) as an in province student and also did my high school there,but finished my last year in NS (did grades 11-12 there) so I did not go to CEGEP but straight to uni after. I finished my undergrad at McGill a year ago,  and have since moved to NS again and started a second undergrad as I had relatively low GPA in the first, while also not really having med school aspirations in the beginning. I have done a year of my new undergrad so far and have maintained a 4.0 GPA . I will also complete my degree after two more semesters. I want to apply for the Quebec med schools as according to the IP criteria at Mcgill I believe I am still considered IP, as I have lived 3 years of the past 5 in Quebec. I would also apply there with the GPA from my second degree only, since as long as I have completed 45 credits beforehand, they would only consider the grades from my second undergrad degree. Assuming I would finish with a 4.0 GPA or close to it, I would believe I would have a very good chance for an interview here?

I also wanted to apply to UdeM, Sherbrooke, and Laval but I was not sure how my situation would be viewed. l do speak French fluently, although maybe a little rusty since I did not speak at all in the past year. What would my chances be assuming I maintain this trend and manage to finish my second degree this year (biology) with a 4.0 GPA? During my first degree I only got something like 3.0-3.1 GPA fwiw. Would these schools look at all my courses or would they consider the second one more heavily/drop some of my lower GPA courses from the first degree? My first degree did not have anything to do with science either. However, I will have taken all the prerequisites equivalent courses during my second degree. Do I have chances for an interview at the French medical schools, or would they not consider me due to my low grades in my first degree?

I’m not sure how the R score and all that is converted from other Canadian uni’s or where I stand, but  I would assume the same criteria for being considered IP from McGill applies here, so I would be applying as an IP student. 

Please feel free to respond in French, writing in English is easier for me, and I don’t have a French keyboard so I did not want to write sloppily or use alt codes.

Thanks

[Symphonie]

What major was your first ug? Asking so I could roughly estimate your R score...

Dans la plupart des universités francophones québécoises, un GPA de 4.0 (4.3) nen bio 'est pas assez , ou du moins plutôt borderline, pour avoir une chance en Med. Et j'ai peur que ton premier bac ne te "drag" trop vers le bas... 

Les unis Franco regardent tous les résultats et n'en éliminent aucun. Good or less good. Dans le cas de la possession de plusieurs "degree" universitaires, aucun bac n'a prépondérance sur l'autre ; ils sont tous de poids égal .

[vegemitesandwich]

 First ug was a BCom. Also since I was used to the McGill scale I forgot to mention that for my second ug my grades so far have been 7 A+ and 3 A’s so that should be 4.21/4.3  scale, not 4.0. 

Dans ce cas est ce que ca fait une difference si je finirai avec ~4.2 au lieu de 4.0 le deuxieme ug, ou il n'y a presque aucune chance? Parce que j'ai 4 ans avec un GPA d'autour 3.0. Donc, meme si j'ai 4.3 dans le deuxieme ug au final, je pense que ca ne serait pas assez pour surmonter le premier ug, s'ils regardent tous les notes, non?   

[Snowmen]

Even completing your second degree in biology most likely wouldn't be enough to compensate for the disastrous first degree, especially since it wasn't in a particularly strong program either. Your best bet would be to apply at McGill on the basis of your second degree as long as your CVPN is good enough and if you are indeed considered IP.

[Symphonie]

Comme il l'a suggéré, je pense que ta meilleure option serait de bien finir ton second bac, puis de miser sur McGill.

3.0 en communication serait très dur à compenser (dans l'optique d'une admission aux écoles francos), bien que je trouve le terme « disastrous » utilisé largement exagéré.

Bon succès dans la suite 

[vegemitesandwich]

Yes, I was mostly hoping on McGill the most, but it's not the only option as I will also consider others such as Dalhousie (my next option, as I can technically be considered IP in NS too), then also Ottawa/McMasteror other schools where they are more lenient on past grades, although slimmer chances since I wouldn't be IP there of course. 

I wanted to apply to the French schools mainly because there would be no MCAT requirement, and I could be considered IP, but did not know they were so harsh on past grades, or at least thought they would consider a science GPA more than a non science degree, and I could compensate. Do the franco schools only look at GPA as their sole criterion, are EC's, experience, and the like not very important?   

 

I mean, if a 4.0/4.3 is barely competitive  I could do another 10 years of undergrad, finish with 4.3 and still be barely in the 3.9  range, if all courses are counted equally and they count it all. Seems insane to me, as they would automatically eliminate a huge percentage of the population, who  may have  considered md only later, for not doing well in their first go. At least if you’re on the English side you have options with a second ug, but what would a francophone that messed up his first degree do, he would ultimately have to try for a medical school in English.

[Chels1267]

3 hours ago, vegemitesandwich said:

Yes, I was mostly hoping on McGill the most, but it's not the only option as I will also consider others such as Dalhousie (my next option, as I can technically be considered IP in NS too), then also Ottawa/McMasteror other schools where they are more lenient on past grades, although slimmer chances since I wouldn't be IP there of course. 

I wanted to apply to the French schools mainly because there would be no MCAT requirement, and I could be considered IP, but did not know they were so harsh on past grades, or at least thought they would consider a science GPA more than a non science degree, and I could compensate. Do the franco schools only look at GPA as their sole criterion, are EC's, experience, and the like not very important?   

 

I mean, if a 4.0/4.3 is barely competitive  I could do another 10 years of undergrad, finish with 4.3 and still be barely in the 3.9  range, if all courses are counted equally and they count it all. Seems insane to me, as they would automatically eliminate a huge percentage of the population, who  may have  considered md only later, for not doing well in their first go. At least if you’re on the English side you have options with a second ug, but what would a francophone that messed up his first degree do, he would ultimately have to try for a medical school in English.

I would double check on this. Dal doesn't count moving for school as residence, so you might have to live in NS for at least a year after completing studies before being considered IP. Not sure how the high school years play into that.

[Symphonie]

7 hours ago, vegemitesandwich said:

Yes, I was mostly hoping on McGill the most, but it's not the only option as I will also consider others such as Dalhousie (my next option, as I can technically be considered IP in NS too), then also Ottawa/McMasteror other schools where they are more lenient on past grades, although slimmer chances since I wouldn't be IP there of course. 

I wanted to apply to the French schools mainly because there would be no MCAT requirement, and I could be considered IP, but did not know they were so harsh on past grades, or at least thought they would consider a science GPA more than a non science degree, and I could compensate. Do the franco schools only look at GPA as their sole criterion, are EC's, experience, and the like not very important?   

 

I mean, if a 4.0/4.3 is barely competitive  I could do another 10 years of undergrad, finish with 4.3 and still be barely in the 3.9  range, if all courses are counted equally and they count it all. Seems insane to me, as they would automatically eliminate a huge percentage of the population, who  may have  considered md only later, for not doing well in their first go. At least if you’re on the English side you have options with a second ug, but what would a francophone that messed up his first degree do, he would ultimately have to try for a medical school in English.

Great news for you then : there's no MCAT requirement for McGill.

French schools look at 2 things : R-score (NOT GPA) and MMI results. UdeM will also add to this list a CASPer test, UdeS & UL might follow. No CVs, reference letters...

And yes unfortunately, this is how french schools process. University grades stay forever and ever, while Cégep grades are erased the more University classes you take.

[vegemitesandwich]

10 hours ago, Chels1267 said:

I would double check on this. Dal doesn't count moving for school as residence, so you might have to live in NS for at least a year after completing studies before being considered IP. Not sure how the high school years play into that.

Yes, it would be because of what would be considered dependent student status and having parents here.

5 hours ago, Symphonie said:

Great news for you then : there's no MCAT requirement for McGill.

French schools look at 2 things : R-score (NOT GPA) and MMI results. UdeM will also add to this list a CASPer test, UdeS & UL might follow. No CVs, reference letters...

And yes unfortunately, this is how french schools process. University grades stay forever and ever, while Cégep grades are erased the more University classes you take.

I see, yeah if cegep grades are erased gradually then that would be more fair to Quebec students. Out of curiosity how is the R score calculated/estimated for other Canadian universities? Does it depend on the program/university, both?  And what would be a competitive GPA to get an invite, you had said 4.0/4.3 is barely, so I would assume it's somewhere in the 4.1-4.2 range?

Also, how do they view McGill grades? There any 85%+ is A, and there's no A+, how would they view students with a 3.9-4.0 McGil GPA, since someone with a 3.9 could theoretically be a 95% average student that got unlucky on a few grade bubbles, and the 4.0 could be an 85% average student.

I mean, I had some courses that would be A+ at other uni's and I finished them with 4.0 instead of 4.3, overall, so I guess if they would use a 4.3 scale my average could jump to around 3.15-2? But doubt that would make of a difference given their stance, even if they did count it like that. I also had a 2 or 3 courses where I got a D, so that probably dropped my GPA  in the ~0.3 range, so even if I had a few courses dropped (as most unis do after what would be ~6 years of undergrad), it would have made a pretty big difference grade wise. 

[Symphonie]

Quote

Out of curiosity how is the R score calculated/estimated for other Canadian universities? Does it depend on the program/university, both?  And what would be a competitive GPA to get an invite, you had said 4.0/4.3 is barely, so I would assume it's somewhere in the 4.1-4.2 range?

La cote R est calculée de la même manière que ce soit un applicant IP ou OOP. L'université en tant que telle n'a aucune importance, mais le programme et le GPA oui.

Je m'excuse pour la confusion créée : il est faux de dire que 4.0/4.3 est ''barely''. Tout dépend du programme. Un GPA de 4.0 en physiothérapie donne 36 de R-Score, tandis qu'un même GPA en biologie donne 31 de R-Score à Laval.  Plus un programme possède un haut indice de force, plus hautes seront les R-Score qui lui seront associées. De manière générale, les programmes peu contingentés voire aucunement contingentés donnent des R-Scorex insuffisantes pour médecine.

Pour avoir possiblement une entrevue à Laval, mais de manière TRÈS borderline, avec biologie, il faudrait 4.3. À Sherbrooke, 4.3 est insuffisant et à UdeM, 4.0 peut être correct.

Quote

Also, how do they view McGill grades?

Ils regardent le GPA inscrit sur ton relevé de note. Que tu aies 85 ou 90, tu auras 4.0/4.0 à McGill et ce sera 4.0/4.0 qui sera sur ton relevé de notes. Ainsi, les étudiants de McGill ont un net avantage car on sait que dans la plupart des universités francos, un GPA parfait nécessite 90, et même 95 dans certains programmes. 

Il y a une conversion qui est faite pour passer du x/4.0 à x/4.3, mais je n'en sais pas plus.

Hope it enlightens a bit

[vegemitesandwich]

4 hours ago, Symphonie said:

 

Hope it enlightens a bit

Yes, thanks a lot. It seems crazy to me though  that you can actually pick a program and get perfect grades, yet not get interviews because it was deemed not strong enough on the R score. I mean that kind of GPA (as long as it's paired with a goodish MCAT) seems very competitive for nearly everywhere in Canada (maybe not UoT and others in Ontario where their criteria seems a bit randomish and get the most applicants), no matter the program, yet Quebec, with a lesser applicant pool has more stringent GPA requirements.

I thought that without the MCAT, franco schools would be easier to get in, but for non-traditionals like me who do a second ug, it seems mostly impossible. 

[Bambi]

The devil Is always in the details, and strategic decisions as to the program of study in undergrad is important for multiple reasons.