ADHD in top 10

[sp4168]

My application at the University of Calgary encourages us to write about adversity. I have a diagnosis of ADHD and I also now work in a helping profession where I see clients with ADHD. I would like to write about coming full-circle in helping others.

However, ADHD has stigma attached. The application does highly encourage us to talk about adversity, but I honestly don't know if it's appropriate. It's not as challenging as some other experiences may be, that's for sure.

Not sure if it matters, but my GPA is strong (3.85) and CARS is 129. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[#YOLO]

worst. idea. ever.

[jay94]

Honestly been debating this as my story is very similar to yours and about my anxiety disorder. Anyone get in having disclosed anything close to a mental health issue?

[robclem21]

I think if you have an opportunity to describe your role in helping clients with ADHD, it wouldn't hurt to describe how you came to find that role and what has made you so passionate about it. I think it is a great story and obviously no medical school can turn you away based on any medical condition. That being said, I don't think that listing a medical condition as a separate entry on an ABS just as its own entity is a great idea. 

[ellorie]

3 hours ago, robclem21 said:

I think if you have an opportunity to describe your role in helping clients with ADHD, it wouldn't hurt to describe how you came to find that role and what has made you so passionate about it. I think it is a great story and obviously no medical school can turn you away based on any medical condition. That being said, I don't think that listing a medical condition as a separate entry on an ABS just as its own entity is a great idea. 

They totally can - because how would you ever know that was what it was? Sure if they wrote a letter telling you that was why, you could probably sue them, but they don't. They just quietly decide that you're not as suitable as someone else and you never know why. 

Unfortunately some illnesses are much more stigmatized than others, and psychiatric illnesses are some of the most stigmatized. 

I think in this case, since ADHD is one of the less stigmatized psychiatric illnesses, and since it directly ties in to other activities and enriches that story, it's most likely okay. Especially since it can be categorized as "overcome" and there's evidence it no longer affects academic performance. 

I think it comes down to comfort level. I generally fall on the side of leaving out any mention of personal mental illness if possible, but in this case I think the risk is smaller than in many cases. 

[ellorie]

For what it's worth, I have a mental health diagnosis and did not disclose it at any point during the medical school or residency application processes and I think it was the right decision. 

Unless it clearly ties in to some activity you want to highlight and it's clearly over and done with, I generally recommend against it. No sense exposing yourself to the stigma unless you have a super good reason.

[Nimbles]

5 hours ago, ellorie said:

For what it's worth, I have a mental health diagnosis and did not disclose it at any point during the medical school or residency application processes and I think it was the right decision. 

Unless it clearly ties in to some activity you want to highlight and it's clearly over and done with, I generally recommend against it. No sense exposing yourself to the stigma unless you have a super good reason.

Just curious when you say stigma do you mean from faculty or your peers or both? Also do you think if you would have disclosed it it would have any consequences for your application processes? Thx in advance.

[ellorie]

I think if I had disclosed it there's a good chance that at least one of the people reading my file would have felt that it made me less suitable to be a physician. 

And I think the stigma comes from all sides, but you worry more about faculty because that's where your career can really get damaged. 

[goleafsgochris]

On ‎2017‎-‎09‎-‎26 at 7:53 PM, sp4168 said:

My application at the University of Calgary encourages us to write about adversity. My undergraduate degree transcript has a lot of gaps and holes and this was prior to a diagnosis of ADHD. Since then, my ADHD has been diagnosed and medically managed and my academic record has shifted dramatically. I also now work in a helping profession where I see clients with ADHD and I would like to write about coming full-circle in helping others.

However, ADHD has stigma attached. The application does highly encourage us to talk about adversity, but I honestly don't know if it's appropriate. It's not as challenging as some other experiences may be, that's for sure.

Not sure if it matters, but my GPA is strong (3.85) and CARS is 129. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Not to pile on, but this is a horrifically bad idea.  Like aside from the fact that it could only hurt your app in and of itself, the fact that you decided to include it may work against you in terms of having you pigeonholed as a "poor judgement" candidate

[goleafsgochris]

19 hours ago, Nimbles said:

Just curious when you say stigma do you mean from faculty or your peers or both? Also do you think if you would have disclosed it it would have any consequences for your application processes? Thx in advance.

Ive seen it in faculty stigma.  Ellorie is totally right...ofc theyre not "supposed" to discriminate, but you guys have to face reality. There are a shit ton of applicants and they will take any chance they can to "throw one out."

[Happy_go]

The idea of stigma attached is interesting. It seems like some level of discrimination for them to judge based on a mental health diagnosis. Yet... why are they judging based on GPA and MCAT at all then? Isn't the academic standard also somewhat of a judgement? Just because a student has a year of bad grades or two years, does that mean they will not be able to handle the MD curricula?

What gives them the right to judge someone who has a mental illness when they are judging students based on their academic track record? The whole system of having students with a near immaculate GPA is just scary. I don't think it's human to sustain such a high GPA over a long period of time - it just doesn't seem normal that students wouldn't have a bad course, a bad year, bad relationship with significant other, bad relationship with parents, etc. In fact, I would reckon that would be more normal and would make for more human physicians. Whoops! Sorry for the ramble!

[ellorie]

Of course it's discrimination. And, you have to decide if that's the hill you want to die on. Are you (not you specifically, but people in general making this choice) willing to risk your career because the world shouldn't be the way it demonstrably is? I'm not. 

[sp4168]

On 9/28/2017 at 8:02 AM, ellorie said:

They totally can - because how would you ever know that was what it was? Sure if they wrote a letter telling you that was why, you could probably sue them, but they don't. They just quietly decide that you're not as suitable as someone else and you never know why. 

Unfortunately some illnesses are much more stigmatized than others, and psychiatric illnesses are some of the most stigmatized. 

I think in this case, since ADHD is one of the less stigmatized psychiatric illnesses, and since it directly ties in to other activities and enriches that story, it's most likely okay. Especially since it can be categorized as "overcome" and there's evidence it no longer affects academic performance. 

I think it comes down to comfort level. I generally fall on the side of leaving out any mention of personal mental illness if possible, but in this case I think the risk is smaller than in many cases. 

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't logged in since September so I'm just seeing this now.

It's a bit of a challenge for me as I think my perspective can be skewed. I'm a registered psychologist and work with kids and adolescents so it's a huge part of my caseload. I should hope that having a PhD and a good academic record will work in my favour as far as stigma goes, but you never know.

My friend is a PGY1 resident in Vancouver and he is on the admissions committee for UBC. Last year he reviewed hundreds of applications so I figured he would be a good person to ask. When he read what I wrote, he figured it showed growth and recommended I leave it in.

Thanks for the input everyone. Some really divided opinions on here, but I really don't think it's the "worst. idea. ever." Riskier than I thought, but I'll just have to deal with that. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[ellorie]

I agree.  In the context of your entire application and your current work, I think it's far from the worst idea ever.  It's just risky.  Which is okay.  I hope it works out for you

[sp4168]

On 10/12/2017 at 5:28 PM, ellorie said:

I agree.  In the context of your entire application and your current work, I think it's far from the worst idea ever.  It's just risky.  Which is okay.  I hope it works out for you

Just wanted to update this thread that I got an interview invite from U of C. Evidently sharing this experience did not go against me  

[jay94]

Yay so glad to hear that! I guess I should also update that I disclosed my mental illness in my UBC app as well (mentioned how I have learned to manage it well and later excelled in all aspects of my life regardless of it) and I also got an interview! Its great to see particular medical schools being accepting of such disclosures :') 

[sp4168]

On 1/19/2018 at 6:09 PM, jay94 said:

Yay so glad to hear that! I guess I should also update that I disclosed my mental illness in my UBC app as well (mentioned how I have learned to manage it well and later excelled in all aspects of my life regardless of it) and I also got an interview! Its great to see particular medical schools being accepting of such disclosures :') 

That is so fantastic! Congratulations

[NLengr]

On 28/09/2017 at 11:32 AM, ellorie said:

They totally can - because how would you ever know that was what it was? Sure if they wrote a letter telling you that was why, you could probably sue them, but they don't. They just quietly decide that you're not as suitable as someone else and you never know why. 

Unfortunately some illnesses are much more stigmatized than others, and psychiatric illnesses are some of the most stigmatized. 

I think in this case, since ADHD is one of the less stigmatized psychiatric illnesses, and since it directly ties in to other activities and enriches that story, it's most likely okay. Especially since it can be categorized as "overcome" and there's evidence it no longer affects academic performance. 

I think it comes down to comfort level. I generally fall on the side of leaving out any mention of personal mental illness if possible, but in this case I think the risk is smaller than in many cases. 

I agree. Never ever disclose any medical illness to a med school unless absolutely necessary.

I have only seen people hurt by disclosures. Never ever helped. 

[#YOLO]

don't tell anyone anything. 

[sangria]

2 hours ago, NLengr said:

I agree. Never ever disclose any medical illness to a med school unless absolutely necessary.

I have only seen people hurt by disclosures. Never ever helped. 

Agreed. 

 

I'm genuinely happy for you for getting an interview. However, it only means that the person(s) who read that portion of your application was not prejudiced. It does not mean your interviewers or whoever you talk to further on in your career won't be. There are all types of doctors out there, just like there are all types of people. The majority of advice here is "don't tell". Tread carefully.

[sp4168]

On 1/25/2018 at 7:38 PM, sangria said:

Agreed. 

 

I'm genuinely happy for you for getting an interview. However, it only means that the person(s) who read that portion of your application was not prejudiced. It does not mean your interviewers or whoever you talk to further on in your career won't be. There are all types of doctors out there, just like there are all types of people. The majority of advice here is "don't tell". Tread carefully.

For record's sake, I did get into U of C, as well as U of T and McMaster (although I did not disclose having ADHD to those schools, only Calgary). I have decided to accept my offer to U of T.

My panel interviewers at U of C actually asked me about having ADHD and we talked about it at length. To be offered that interview, four people independently reviewed my application and obviously, no red flags were raised. This would have included a community member, an allied health professional, a professor/physician, and a medical resident. Overall, then, six people were okay with my sharing this.

For anyone reading this, I would recommend being careful when disclosing ADHD; do not indiscriminately reveal a mental illness. For me, it was a calculated move to show growth and only included in my application because Calgary specifically asked us to write about overcoming adversity. That might be something to think about if you are considering sharing a struggle with ADHD or another mental illness - tailor your disclosure to each school and be careful in how you word things.

[inner-exodus]

Hey, you and I seemed to have been in the same boat - I don't have ADHD specifically, but I am on the autism spectrum. For the sake of others who might be debating this sort of thing, I'm going to add my own personal anecdotes.

Last cycle I didn't mention that I was on the spectrum anywhere because I was afraid of the stigma. No interviews, no dice. This cycle, I said screw it and openly disclosed it in all my applications, some of my essays, etc. Not only did this not raise any red flags, but I got 5 interviews and two acceptances this time around. It was literally the only thing I changed about my application. 

But, like you said, if you are disclosing it, be careful and make sure that you can frame it in a way that's positive. In my case, a huge chunk of my ECs were related to long-term advocacy work surrounding my disability in various contexts, and the real reason why not mentioning it sunk my chances the first time around was because I couldn't mention these ECs without also disclosing my disability.

The bottom line is, it won't kill your chances. In fact, in the right circumstances it might make them better. But be careful.

[sp4168]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:17 PM, inner-exodus said:

Hey, you and I seemed to have been in the same boat - I don't have ADHD specifically, but I am on the autism spectrum. For the sake of others who might be debating this sort of thing, I'm going to add my own personal anecdotes.

Last cycle I didn't mention that I was on the spectrum anywhere because I was afraid of the stigma. No interviews, no dice. This cycle, I said screw it and openly disclosed it in all my applications, some of my essays, etc. Not only did this not raise any red flags, but I got 5 interviews and two acceptances this time around. It was literally the only thing I changed about my application. 

But, like you said, if you are disclosing it, be careful and make sure that you can frame it in a way that's positive. In my case, a huge chunk of my ECs were related to long-term advocacy work surrounding my disability in various contexts, and the real reason why not mentioning it sunk my chances the first time around was because I couldn't mention these ECs without also disclosing my disability.

The bottom line is, it won't kill your chances. In fact, in the right circumstances it might make them better. But be careful.

This is amazing. Congrats! It makes me happy to hear individual stories where stigma has not impacted one's ability to become accepted to medical school. 

[goleafsgochris]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:17 PM, sp4168 said:

For record's sake, I did get into U of C, as well as U of T and McMaster (although I did not disclose having ADHD to those schools, only Calgary). I have decided to accept my offer to U of T.

My panel interviewers at U of C actually asked me about having ADHD and we talked about it at length. To be offered that interview, four people independently reviewed my application and obviously, no red flags were raised. This would have included a community member, an allied health professional, a professor/physician, and a medical resident. Overall, then, six people were okay with my sharing this.

For anyone reading this, I would recommend being careful when disclosing ADHD; do not indiscriminately reveal a mental illness. For me, it was a calculated move to show growth and only included in my application because Calgary specifically asked us to write about overcoming adversity. That might be something to think about if you are considering sharing a struggle with ADHD or another mental illness - tailor your disclosure to each school and be careful in how you word things.

I would agree with what everyone else said.  Ive done file reviews and interviews, and would surmise that you got in despite your disclosure, not because of it.  Possibly you were lucky and no one involved was particularly discriminatory.  

My advice is not that it always will screw you over.  Its more that theres maybe a 20-25% chance it will screw you over, and probably a (very close to) 0% chance it will help you.

[sp4168]

13 hours ago, goleafsgochris said:

I would agree with what everyone else said.  Ive done file reviews and interviews, and would surmise that you got in despite your disclosure, not because of it.  Possibly you were lucky and no one involved was particularly discriminatory.  

My advice is not that it always will screw you over.  Its more that theres maybe a 20-25% chance it will screw you over, and probably a (very close to) 0% chance it will help you.

3

Talking openly about mental illness in the application cycle is certainly not a golden ticket to admissions and I have not suggested that it is. I am not sure where in my posts I implied that I got in because of my disclosure. 

I also was very clear that I disclosed at only at one school out of three, because this particular school encouraged us to talk about overcoming adversity in our application. I assumed, as a result, that those reviewing files would be expecting more personal stories. Ultimately, my decision to share was calculated. It explained some things on my transcript that otherwise looked bad, which was absolutely helpful to me (contrary to your suggestion). I reiterate: this is not the reason I got into medical school. I got in because I have a strong application overall. However, it did help the weakest link in my application for that particular school. If anyone else on this forum is reading and feels they might have a good reason to share, and that the school might be receptive to their sharing, that might be something to consider. Just be careful of how you present yourself.

To be honest, I think your attitude here is a good example of stigma in our profession and I think you should take some time to consider whether it may just be you who is discriminatory. The mere concept of trying to put a 20-25% number on whether someone will be "screwed over" by disclosing adversity (in an application explicitly encouraging them to do so) is offensive.