Undergrad in US, want to apply to Canadian Med

[ez941115]

Hey guys I'm in kind of a tough situation here. First of all I go to undergraduate at Brown University (Ivy League) majoring in Neuroscience, heading into 3rd year and I am a Canadian citizen. I have several concerns I want to address, and if anyone can answer or help me out it will be appreciated so much!

 

1. US vs Canada. I heard that applying to US med schools is really disadvantageous for Canadians even if I had gone to a US undergrad because they rarely accept internationals. At the same time, applying to a Canadian med school for me is also disadvantageous because I read that Canadian med schools take more "in-province" students as well as the fact that they value Canadian undergrad more. In this case, does US med or Canada med stand a better chance for me?

 

2. GPA requirements. Canada med has a much higher GPA requirement (around 3.7-3.9) than US (3.5 above). At Brown, we have no + or -, so I either get an A or a B. Unfortunately many times I am like a few percent short of an A, but since we don't have A- or B+, I just end up with a B and thus an GPA hovering 3.0. I am going to try an extra bit harder to get my next two year's GPA up, but I think the highest GPA I can possibly get is 3.5, which means I pretty much can't get in anywhere in Canada. Is it also easier to get a higher GPA in Canada? I know at least 5 friends in Canadian undergrads that have around 3.9 while at my school a 3.7-8 is unheard of.

 

3. 2015 MCAT. Does anyone know if this exam will be more difficult? I know they added social science etc but anyone know if they eased up the sciences to compensate?

 

4. I am also planning to take a year off, not gonna head into med school directly. So during this year, what would be my BEST option to improve + upgrade my application? Some things such as extra research jobs, master's degree, retaking courses I got a bad grade in (is this even allowed) are in my consideration right now.

 

My main downfall right now to med school is my GPA. I have sometime to prepare for the new MCAT so I don't think that will be a huge problem. I have a lot of extracurriculars and research/job shadowing experience as well. It just the GPA that sucks :/

 

If anyone can offer some advice or suggestions, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all so much!

[ez941115]

I forgot to add the fact that I'm from BC, so schools like UofA can't really be considered since they take pretty much only Albertans. And one last question, does the fact that I go to an Ivy League give some lenience to my GPA?

[canucks_14]

 

 

Hey guys I'm in kind of a tough situation here. First of all I go to undergraduate at Brown University (Ivy League) majoring in Neuroscience, heading into 3rd year and I am a Canadian citizen. I have several concerns I want to address, and if anyone can answer or help me out it will be appreciated so much!

1. US vs Canada. I heard that applying to US med schools is really disadvantageous for Canadians even if I had gone to a US undergrad because they rarely accept internationals. At the same time, applying to a Canadian med school for me is also disadvantageous because I read that Canadian med schools take more "in-province" students as well as the fact that they value Canadian undergrad more. In this case, does US med or Canada med stand a better chance for me?

2. GPA requirements. Canada med has a much higher GPA requirement (around 3.7-3.9) than US (3.5 above). At Brown, we have no + or -, so I either get an A or a B. Unfortunately many times I am like a few percent short of an A, but since we don't have B+, I just end up with a B and thus an GPA hovering 3.0. I am going to try an extra bit harder to get my next two year's GPA up, but I think the highest GPA I can possibly get is 3.5, which means I pretty much can't get in anywhere in Canada. Is it also easier to get a higher GPA in Canada? I know at least 5 friends in Canadian undergrads that have around 3.9 while at my school a 3.7-8 is unheard of.

3. 2015 MCAT. Does anyone know if this exam will be more difficult? I know they added social science etc but anyone know if they eased up the sciences to compensate?

4. I am also planning to take a year off, not gonna head into med school directly. So during this year, what would be my BEST option to improve + upgrade my application? Some things such as extra research jobs, master's degree, retaking courses I got a bad grade in (is this even allowed) are in my consideration right now.

My main downfall right now to med school is my GPA. I have sometime to prepare for the new MCAT so I don't think that will be a huge problem. I have a lot of extracurriculars and research/job shadowing experience as well. It just the GPA that sucks :/

If anyone can offer some advice or suggestions, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all so much!

 

[ez941115]

thanks for putting ivy league in brackets, then you will get the true respect you deserve

 

It's more like most people don't know Brown very well as it is considered one of the lower tiered Ivys, but I appreciate your sarcasm and helpfulness.

 

You basically just came here to troll

[peace2012]

Hey guys I'm in kind of a tough situation here. First of all I go to undergraduate at Brown University (Ivy League) majoring in Neuroscience, heading into 3rd year and I am a Canadian citizen. I have several concerns I want to address, and if anyone can answer or help me out it will be appreciated so much!

 

1. US vs Canada. I heard that applying to US med schools is really disadvantageous for Canadians even if I had gone to a US undergrad because they rarely accept internationals. At the same time, applying to a Canadian med school for me is also disadvantageous because I read that Canadian med schools take more "in-province" students as well as the fact that they value Canadian undergrad more. In this case, does US med or Canada med stand a better chance for me?

 

2. GPA requirements. Canada med has a much higher GPA requirement (around 3.7-3.9) than US (3.5 above). At Brown, we have no + or -, so I either get an A or a B. Unfortunately many times I am like a few percent short of an A, but since we don't have A- or B+, I just end up with a B and thus an GPA hovering 3.0. I am going to try an extra bit harder to get my next two year's GPA up, but I think the highest GPA I can possibly get is 3.5, which means I pretty much can't get in anywhere in Canada. Is it also easier to get a higher GPA in Canada? I know at least 5 friends in Canadian undergrads that have around 3.9 while at my school a 3.7-8 is unheard of.

 

3. 2015 MCAT. Does anyone know if this exam will be more difficult? I know they added social science etc but anyone know if they eased up the sciences to compensate?

 

4. I am also planning to take a year off, not gonna head into med school directly. So during this year, what would be my BEST option to improve + upgrade my application? Some things such as extra research jobs, master's degree, retaking courses I got a bad grade in (is this even allowed) are in my consideration right now.

 

My main downfall right now to med school is my GPA. I have sometime to prepare for the new MCAT so I don't think that will be a huge problem. I have a lot of extracurriculars and research/job shadowing experience as well. It just the GPA that sucks :/

 

If anyone can offer some advice or suggestions, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all so much!

 

1) Try to apply to US schools, Canadian schools are *almost* impossible with a 3.5.

2) GPA is easy to get if you go to an easy school....

3) No one knows about the 2015 MCAT.

4) Do a Masters.

 

Apply to US schools!

[canucks_14]

It's more like most people don't know Brown very well as it is considered one of the lower tiered Ivys, but I appreciate your sarcasm and helpfulness.

 

You basically just came here to troll

 

sorry if i offended you, but to me it seemed like you put ivy league in brackets in order to provide an understanding that your school deserves more respect than other schools. unless there is something about ivy league school applicants applying to med school that i dont know about, then it really has no bearing on your application. however of course a degree from harvard would most likely look better than one from a community college, but I'm not exactly sure.

[ez941115]

sorry if i offended you, but to me it seemed like you put ivy league in brackets in order to provide an understanding that your school deserves more respect than other schools. unless there is something about ivy league school applicants applying to med school that i dont know about, then it really has no bearing on your application. however of course a degree from harvard would most likely look better than one from a community college, but I'm not exactly sure.

 

That's the thing though, I DON'T KNOW if an Ivy League receives more respect in the eye of the med school admissions or not, thats why I'm providing AS MUCH information as possible so that you guys can shed light on me. In no sense was I trying to show off, I don't gain anything from it on a forum filled with many extremely successful and MUCH more accomplished students than I am. But since you said there is no bearing on the application, then I understand now and thank you for your answer.

[canucks_14]

That's the thing though, I DON'T KNOW if an Ivy League receives more respect in the eye of the med school admissions or not, thats why I'm providing AS MUCH information as possible so that you guys can shed light on me. In no sense was I trying to show off, I don't gain anything from it on a forum filled with many extremely successful and MUCH more accomplished students than I am. But since you said there is no bearing on the application, then I understand now and thank you for your answer.

 

well i have a limited knowledge on american medical school issues so take it with a grain of salt. maybe do some research and send some emails to admissions of the schools you want to go to. they may give you wishy-washy answers but its worth a shot. also making an account on SDN wouldn't be a bad idea, because its an american forum and you can post questions there and here to get more answers. good luck

[affyuser]

Definitely apply for a range of US medical schools. Although you will be limited to those that consider Canadian applicants, that's still quite a few ( 30-40) and there are some other schools which only consider foreign applicants if they have an American undergraduate degree so you can add those as well. The list on the American medical school subforum at this site and the MSAR would help in picking schools. The premed committee letter you get from your US undergrad would also help in applying to American schools as the average applicant from a Canadian undergrad school won't have this.

 

If you get your GPA up to 3.5 as you plan to and also do well on the MCAT, you should be a competitive applicant in the US, especially with your extracurricular, employment and research experiences. The Ivy league undergrad should also help to some degree for US med schools whereas in Canada, specific school reputation doesn't really affect the way your undergrad GPA is assessed. For Canadian med schools you can try the ones which take only the GPA from your best (or last) 2 or 3 years (like Queen's, Western and Dalhousie) if you meet their MCAT cutoffs as well as your in province school. If you do decide to do a grad degree, UofT is also an option as they have lower GPA cutoffs for grad students.

[lokiki]

Do you have a BC care card still? If so, then you are still considered IP for UBC. IF you go back to BC for your year off after school you can apply for your care card again and be IP.

 

They have grade conversion charts on their website here:

http://mdprogram.med.ubc.ca/files/2012/08/ADM_grade_conversion_tables.pdf

but it doesn't seem to apply to your situation. You should email the admissions office directly to find out their conversion. 3.5 means nothing to them because they do it all on percentage. You need to find out their conversions and do the math yourself. Feel free to PM me with UBC-specific questions if interested.

 

I hate to break it to you, but unless you are IP, a 3.5 GPA is nearly impossible to get into Canada with. US schools may be better but as one other person said, you need to look into that yourself (and SDN will be better). Are you considering DO?

[futurepediatric]

thanks for putting ivy league in brackets, then you will get the true respect you deserve

 

Wow, this was SO uncalled for. Maybe he was just including the info b/c he thought it would make a difference? Which is really not too crazy if you think of the amount of people who mention their degree and name of of undergrad school to see if it does or does not have an effect.

[psyphon_asl]

Doesnt' Brown medical school highly covet its own undergrads? If so a 3.5 from Brown would be highly advantageous over there.

 

Coming back to Canada is pointless for you, and it provides no better education than US schools. Unless you have personal reasons to return (money , family , etc) your primary aim should be US medical schools.

[BizMarkie]

Hey guys I'm in kind of a tough situation here. First of all I go to undergraduate at Brown University (Ivy League) majoring in Neuroscience, heading into 3rd year and I am a Canadian citizen. I have several concerns I want to address, and if anyone can answer or help me out it will be appreciated so much!

 

1. US vs Canada. I heard that applying to US med schools is really disadvantageous for Canadians even if I had gone to a US undergrad because they rarely accept internationals. At the same time, applying to a Canadian med school for me is also disadvantageous because I read that Canadian med schools take more "in-province" students as well as the fact that they value Canadian undergrad more. In this case, does US med or Canada med stand a better chance for me?

 

2. GPA requirements. Canada med has a much higher GPA requirement (around 3.7-3.9) than US (3.5 above). At Brown, we have no + or -, so I either get an A or a B. Unfortunately many times I am like a few percent short of an A, but since we don't have A- or B+, I just end up with a B and thus an GPA hovering 3.0. I am going to try an extra bit harder to get my next two year's GPA up, but I think the highest GPA I can possibly get is 3.5, which means I pretty much can't get in anywhere in Canada. Is it also easier to get a higher GPA in Canada? I know at least 5 friends in Canadian undergrads that have around 3.9 while at my school a 3.7-8 is unheard of.

 

3. 2015 MCAT. Does anyone know if this exam will be more difficult? I know they added social science etc but anyone know if they eased up the sciences to compensate?

 

4. I am also planning to take a year off, not gonna head into med school directly. So during this year, what would be my BEST option to improve + upgrade my application? Some things such as extra research jobs, master's degree, retaking courses I got a bad grade in (is this even allowed) are in my consideration right now.

 

My main downfall right now to med school is my GPA. I have sometime to prepare for the new MCAT so I don't think that will be a huge problem. I have a lot of extracurriculars and research/job shadowing experience as well. It just the GPA that sucks :/

 

If anyone can offer some advice or suggestions, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all so much!

 

 

What you need to do is research specific schools and try to connect what you have to what they want. Here is some stuff I've found out that might be helpful.

 

University of Manitoba: You would have to apply as an out of province student, but that doesn't rule you out. Your GPA does have to be above 4, however, if you have 120 credit hours, they will drop your 30 crappiest grades. This substantially increases your GPA from your cumulative GPA. Depending on your individual grades, you may be much closer to the 4.0 mark than you think. The other thing about the U of M, is that the MCAT is totally their boyfriend. 72% of their initial application formula is based on your score. If you've ever been published, it gives you a portion of their academic coefficient. If you've ever lived, volunteered, or worked in a rural are it gives you a portion on their rural coefficient. If you think you can royally conquer the MCAT, you may have a chance as an out of province applicant at this school. These stats might be helpful: http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/medicine/education/undergraduate/media/Faculty_of_Medicine_Class_of_2017_Applicant_Statistics_v_5_for_web.pdf

 

You can also look UBC. If you move back there after you graduate, you would have enough time to get a BC CareCard and would thus be considered in province.

 

From what I gather, Ontario schools are not as hardcore with the in province thing as the other schools. I'd have a look at all of them and review their GPA calculation processes.

 

How you plan your year off should depend on which specific schools you want to apply to. I would suggest some GPA boosting. You can do a second degree through Athabasca University online in a year if you put some effort into it (if you actually move to Alberta to do this, you might even be considered in province, but look into that one). Masters degrees generally don't get you that far in Canada as most schools focus on your undergraduate marks (some give coefficients or a GPA increase for a graduate degree but others don't look at it at all). I think of you do some assiduous research, you can efficiently utilize that year and get into a Canadian school.

 

NB: If anyone sees any info I'm giving here that's incorrect, feel free to correct it.

[Dannny]

I agree with one of the previous posters. With an ivy league undergrad degree and a decent grade, it shouldn't be that difficult to getting into an American MD school. Do you have specific reasons for wanting to come back to Canada?

[ez941115]

THANK YOU GUYS ALL FOR YOUR HELP THUS FAR!!! You guys have all been amazing and I've gained absolutely wonderful knowledge about this issue.

 

I originally wanted to come back to Canada for MD cuz i thought US RARELY accepts non-americans. Then recently I found out that I have actually a higher chance in US because Canada doesnt really consider US undergrad at all.

 

I do still have my BC CareCard which means i would be considered IP for UBC. However, looking at their stats for this year. Roughly 250 were accepted, and only 8 students were from US undergrad regardless of IP or not. So that kinda sank my boat.

 

Since I am still only going to my 3rd year, I still have 2 more years left to plan out my stuff so I'll probably be okay. I am really curious to how I can "correct" my bad GPA. If I retake some premed requirements such as OrganicChem at another institution, would med schools allow that?

[Edict]

Doesnt' Brown medical school highly covet its own undergrads? If so a 3.5 from Brown would be highly advantageous over there.

 

Coming back to Canada is pointless for you, and it provides no better education than US schools. Unless you have personal reasons to return (money , family , etc) your primary aim should be US medical schools.

 

Brown Med is really tough to get in because its small and has the PLME program which basically is probably the reason why you hear of Brown Med preferring Brown undergrads. PLME students are accepted in high school and are guaranteed Brown undergrad and Brown med in 8 years. After you take away the numbers from PLME Brown accepts less than 100 students a year I think.

[psyphon_asl]

THANK YOU GUYS ALL FOR YOUR HELP THUS FAR!!! You guys have all been amazing and I've gained absolutely wonderful knowledge about this issue.

 

I originally wanted to come back to Canada for MD cuz i thought US RARELY accepts non-americans. Then recently I found out that I have actually a higher chance in US because Canada doesnt really consider US undergrad at all.

 

I do still have my BC CareCard which means i would be considered IP for UBC. However, looking at their stats for this year. Roughly 250 were accepted, and only 8 students were from US undergrad regardless of IP or not. So that kinda sank my boat.

 

Since I am still only going to my 3rd year, I still have 2 more years left to plan out my stuff so I'll probably be okay. I am really curious to how I can "correct" my bad GPA. If I retake some premed requirements such as OrganicChem at another institution, would med schools allow that?

 

Retaking the same course doesn't affect the original grade. They simply include both courses in the GPA calculation (AMCAS only). If you take a different course at a different university then it would be treated differently but your original mark won't be discounted.

 

Given the high tuition over there's , there's little incentive to take courses outside your undergrad. You're far better off taking a higher level course with similar content.

 

Your 3.5GPA isn't . Stop comparing to the CDN GPAs on this forum. We have two different systems. If you score above 33 on the MCAt then you'll a great chance

[want2go]

Folks, there are some generous and helpful people on this forum, I have learned quite a bit from other posts. Thank you. I am a Canadian and a senior in a US school. I would like to return to Canada but it is looking bleak. The US path might be the one most open to me. I will write the MCAT 2015 this summer, so that is an unknown factor. I am currently trying to plan my post-grad year(s) My wise mentor, a respected physician in the US is of the opinion that the US post bac programs are an ideal way to personally "ramp up" for the demands of medical school. In an attempt to plan my interim year(s) I have applied for several MSc programmes in Canada for September 2015 admission. They "look" interesting but I am also considering applying for a U.S. post-bac program purely for the personal development and preparation it offers. Although post-bacs are ideal for medical school preparedness, the program will not be useful for paving the way to a second career. I am asking myself "What do I really want to do?" The answer is always "I want to be a doctor."  These are tough decisions with daunting financial ramifications. Right now I am remembering of how many items I have bought in the past that promised to be multiuse - multipurpose and that ended up being good for nothing. Anyone else in a similar boat? I'm feeling like the boat I'm in is missing a rudder.

[advair250]

To the OP: 

A 3.5 from a US school doesn't take you out of the running for US medical schools - just do well on the MCAT. You are actually able to apply to more schools than Canadians who did degrees in Canada (anecdotally, it would seem that Canadians who do undergrads in the US are treated a bit more like americans, but you still need to do well on the MCAT. Also have a strong non-academic profile. 

Based on how your grades convert to the % scale, you may or may not be competitive - it will really come down to how strong your ECs are for UBC. If your GPA converts to at least a low 80's %, you are in the running, as long as you have super strong ECs. 

 

[advair250]

Folks, there are some generous and helpful people on this forum, I have learned quite a bit from other posts. Thank you. I am a Canadian and a senior in a US school. I would like to return to Canada but it is looking bleak. The US path might be the one most open to me. I will write the MCAT 2015 this summer, so that is an unknown factor. I am currently trying to plan my post-grad year(s) My wise mentor, a respected physician in the US is of the opinion that the US post bac programs are an ideal way to personally "ramp up" for the demands of medical school. In an attempt to plan my interim year(s) I have applied for several MSc programmes in Canada for September 2015 admission. They "look" interesting but I am also considering applying for a U.S. post-bac program purely for the personal development and preparation it offers. Although post-bacs are ideal for medical school preparedness, the program will not be useful for paving the way to a second career. I am asking myself "What do I really want to do?" The answer is always "I want to be a doctor."  These are tough decisions with daunting financial ramifications. Right now I am remembering of how many items I have bought in the past that promised to be multiuse - multipurpose and that ended up being good for nothing. Anyone else in a similar boat? I'm feeling like the boat I'm in is missing a rudder.

What are you stats and ECs?

 

A post bacc really only necessary for 1) people with non-science backgrounds missing pre reqs and 2)If you did really poorly in undergrad and need to redeem yourself

 

As you said post-baccs, and SMPs(in which you take classes alongside med students) are only useful for increasing competitiveness for medical school applications - and otherwise are fairly useless.

[canucks_14]

Sorry about being rude last time. That weekend was one of the worst weekends of my life because of personal stuff (I believe I touched on it in my blog), and while that doesn't give me permission to be rude, it is what definitely caused that remark. My apologies.

Have you considered doing a 2nd degree for canadian MD schools? I think if you did that then you'd have a great shot at UBC. Your gpa may be a bit low, but considering that it goes from an A straight to a B, it probably didn't work very well in your favour. If you did a 2nd undergrad at a school with a different grading scheme, I'd probably say you'd have some pretty good marks.

Also I have heard that the MCAT will be more difficult, but mostly in a sense that you need to know more content and that it is a longer test. Some sections will actually be slightly reduced from the old test. But you still need to know everything though.

If I were you, I'd stay at Brown if I want to go to a US MD school. BUT if you want a Canadian MD school, then I'd transfer ASAP and get that GPA up with at least 2 more years of school. If you don't care whether it is US MD or Canadian MD, and just want to get in somewhere, then it is a tougher call. On the one hand you may have lenenicy when US schools look at your transcript, but on the other hand if you transfer to a school with a different grading scheme, you would think your GPA would benefit from that, giving you a better shot at both US and Canadian MD schools.

 

Also the great thing about UBC medical school is that they look at every course you take. So you can take courses in the summer or part time, and still have them count towards your GPA. They also accept marks from smaller colleges, which Ontario doesn't do. Have you heard of Langara College? It is a small college in Vancouver that has small class sizes and good instructors. I'm doing a bunch of courses there because I'm doing well in my courses there and UBC MD will accept those grades to boost my average. I wish I had found out about this sooner!

[JohnGrisham]

Sorry about being rude last time. That weekend was one of the worst weekends of my life because of personal stuff (I believe I touched on it in my blog), and while that doesn't give me permission to be rude, it is what definitely caused that remark. My apologies.

 

Have you considered doing a 2nd degree for canadian MD schools? I think if you did that then you'd have a great shot at UBC. Your gpa may be a bit low, but considering that it goes from an A straight to a B, it probably didn't work very well in your favour. If you did a 2nd undergrad at a school with a different grading scheme, I'd probably say you'd have some pretty good marks.

 

Also I have heard that the MCAT will be more difficult, but mostly in a sense that you need to know more content and that it is a longer test. Some sections will actually be slightly reduced from the old test. But you still need to know everything though.

 

If I were you, I'd stay at Brown if I want to go to a US MD school. BUT if you want a Canadian MD school, then I'd transfer ASAP and get that GPA up with at least 2 more years of school. If you don't care whether it is US MD or Canadian MD, and just want to get in somewhere, then it is a tougher call. On the one hand you may have lenenicy when US schools look at your transcript, but on the other hand if you transfer to a school with a different grading scheme, you would think your GPA would benefit from that, giving you a better shot at both US and Canadian MD schools.

 

Also the great thing about UBC medical school is that they look at every course you take. So you can take courses in the summer or part time, and still have them count towards your GPA. They also accept marks from smaller colleges, which Ontario doesn't do. Have you heard of Langara College? It is a small college in Vancouver that has small class sizes and good instructors. I'm doing a bunch of courses there because I'm doing well in my courses there and UBC MD will accept those grades to boost my average. I wish I had found out about this sooner!

A few solid points, specifically about UBC.

 

I think even the 3.5, may be competitive enough to get an interview depending on how it converts to the % scale - and if the OP has strong ECs.  But definitely take more coursework to improve your odds.

 

I wish I would have known that Ontario didn't accept college classes - i took a few while enrolled at UBC, because the scheduling for these elective classes were much better at the college, and half- the price.   I assumed that since UBC didn't care, and that US schools didn't care it would be okay across the board. 

 

But then of course Ontario doesn't consider them (even if they are direct equivalents to 300 level classes at UBC!) so I became ineligible at Queens and UWO where I would have had decent chance due to best 2 years