medigeek Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Come to work 8am-3pm, grade until 5pm. Sometimes work till 7pm. Then get 2 months of the year off and longer holidays than everyone else. Go to the bank and collect an 85k/year with a million benefits. Then continue to complain and demand a lot more. But a doctor who has triple the education, works double the hours and significantly harder in those hours AND 0 paid vacation or benefits ; no one cares. Some of these docs even turn around and defend the teachers' union. Pretty crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takasugi Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Teachers are really entitled as fuck. You hit the nail on the head. Look at their benefits, pensions (very very juicy pensions), job security, job flexibility, vacation (2 months off in the summer, march break, winter break), don't even need to be highly educated (I had some dumbass teachers in school). Yes, they have very important jobs in terms of educating and enriching the next generation of youth. But, they are rewarded generously (imo too much) for this and yet they still bitch every other year. Reason imo is that they have very, very strong unions. Unions are a big problem in Canada and have really morphed into something beyond they were intended for. Some of these unions are just straight up psycho. Intrepid86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 21 hours ago, takasugi said: Teachers are really entitled as fuck. You hit the nail on the head. Look at their benefits, pensions (very very juicy pensions), job security, job flexibility, vacation (2 months off in the summer, march break, winter break), don't even need to be highly educated (I had some dumbass teachers in school). Yes, they have very important jobs in terms of educating and enriching the next generation of youth. But, they are rewarded generously (imo too much) for this and yet they still bitch every other year. Reason imo is that they have very, very strong unions. Unions are a big problem in Canada and have really morphed into something beyond they were intended for. Some of these unions are just straight up psycho. Lol and they complain about having "tough jobs" as if everyday people have easy jobs. Like they don't even work the full 6-7 hours they're there. They have their prep times, recess, lunch... it's insane how little work they actually have to do during the day. Then complain about grading and other stuff, like duh? It's a stretch that they even work an actual 40-45 hours and even if they did work 50ish hour weeks - they'd still be extremely well compensated. They continue to milk this and have no shame. And if it's all about class sizes, how about a 10% pay cut (which would still leave them with exceptional compensation) along with smaller class sizes? Would they accept that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1D7 Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 Teaching is a pretty sweet job. For reference this is their pay in Ontario: "Step" corresponds to years, while category depends on your education (your average high school teacher is A3). You can increase your pay by being head of dept. Here's a bit of back of the napkin math for fun: Comparing a teacher vs family doc 12 years out from undergrad in terms of money and time spent working... Tuition: About 20k for B. Ed, while MD with elective rotations is about 120k conservatively. MD is 2 years longer as well which I'll take into account below. Raw Income: For the teacher 12 years out is about 820k earned, subtracting tuition it means they will have earned 800k. Their pension plans match dollar for dollar contributed so this number is closer to 900k. For the family doctor these numbers will necessitate assumptions, but I'll go with (-120k)+60k+65k+140k+160k+180k+240k+240k+240k = ~1200k. Hours worked factored in: I won't look at grading/paperwork or conferences because both do those. For the teacher there are straight 2 months of vacation, meaning the doctor works 20% more weeks. On a day-to-day basis teachers work 8am-4pm on average with a solid 45-60 minutes of lunch/additional break in there but we'll round up to 40 hours/week; for the family doctors it's about 45 hrs/week. That's about 10% more hours per week, plus 20% more working weeks for the MD (1.10*1.20 = overall 32% more work time per year for the MD). Therefore a MD spends about 32% more time working, for about 30% more income (1200k vs 900k)...therefore money for time worked comes out to about the same, up until about 12 years out from undergrad. If the family doctor decided to work the same amount as a teacher he/she would be making the same amount 12 years out from undergrad (i.e. 6 yrs into independent practice). There are lots of pros and cons for docs in terms of money and time that I didn't really take into account (significantly greater work hours during residency, delayed timing of investments in stock market, less vacation time overall, malpractice insurance payments, professional corporations as retirement vehicles, etc.). This is also purely a time/money perspective and doesn't take into account the fact that a family doctor may deal with matters of life and death, and is exposed to significantly greater workplace hazards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1D7 Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 Good for them. Wish we had as powerful a voice with the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah1234 Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 I don't blame them for advocating for themselves. I'm a proponent for people advocating for their professions and the government/employer advocating against in order to reach a reasonable equilibrium. Doctors are just awful at being a unified body and I don't see that changing during my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Teachers unions in Ontario are very very used to being coddled by the government. Essentially Mcguinty bought them off every election with sweet contracts so they would vote liberal, which they did in spades (and thus kept a terrible McGuinty government in power far longer than it should have been). I don't expect them to suddenly become less demanding of the government just because the Liberals are out. They are used to being appeased. Nursing unions are no better on the behaviour front imo. And I agree with blah1234, doctors are more concerned with screwing each other over than with helping improve the situation for all physicians. Crabs in a bucket mentality. We really are the worst profession when it comes to how we behave towards each other. More honour in a room full of lawyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 23 hours ago, 1D7 said: a family doctor may deal with matters of life and death, and is exposed to significantly greater workplace hazards. Curious, do you mean code white situations in the office, medicolegal complaints, or hazardous exposures? Just thinking of rising school violence.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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