What the ??????

[Guest red]

So I didn't get in but am honestly stark raving mad and upset this time (I apologize for being so angry but I just found out now). Last year I figured OK so one interviewer didn't like me. That's acceptable. Vera Frinton had told me that (in her exact words) "Only the one interviewer kept you out- he didn't rate you as high as the other did (who gave me her highest score ever) but don't worry, people like you always get in, you just have to try 4 or 5 times". Huh? People like me???? I have a 45.5 out of 50 overall file review score but no admittance or WAIT LIST this year. A 25/25 for academic score, 20/25 for non-academics, an 81 for prereqs, and an 86 for both overall GPA and last 60 credits. All are higher than the average of people admitted. WHAT THE $#%%##????The interview was the only score lower than the average of people being admitted- and it was still an 82. Anybody have any insight to this bizzarre decision? And does anyone know about the appeals process because?

 

Thanks and I'm so sorry to bring a damper to all of you who got in. Congrats by the way (and I really do mean that)

[Guest physiology]

I read your stats and thought "wow...what happened?"

 

Are you an out of province applicant? And how did you rank your sites?

 

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the reference letters and/or essay carry a lot of weight (and are not factored into the numbers you have below).

 

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear that because you have quite an impressive list of numbers.

[Guest red]

I'm in province but grew up back east. Did my Masters at UBC and have lived here for almost 7 years. From the feedback session last year when I applied, the essay is taken into consideration as are the references into the non academic score. The only objective thing I can think of is the interview. It has to be that. One of the three rated me lower than the others maybe. Can't wait for the feedback session but I'm sure they'll give me the same response as last year. Something just doesn't make sense. I have a sneaking suspicion I've been had... God- I hate what this does to me!

[Guest red]

Oops forgot to add that I rated Vancouver as #1 then Vic then PG. And Physiology, what were your score breakdowns or did they tell you?

 

Thanks for the sympathy too- it helps. But I'm still in absolute shock.

[Guest Miller]

Red, that does sound a little odd to say the least. I feel for you, it sounds like something subjective held you back. I was told by someone I trust that while the reference letters don't really get you into med school, they can keep you out. How confident are you with your reference letters? Also, the interviewers were told to look for things that may not show up on the score. They can make general comments and perhaps something was said that was a red flag (no pun intended). But all in all it sounds almost like there was a mix up. I truly hope that you find some answers that make sense and get in next time.

[Guest SouthMigration]

Hey Red. Well, that sux. I understand your shock. With your stats though, you should get in somewhere. Maybe forget about UBC, or apply at lots of other places as well, you should not have any problem. UBC's admission process is like that, not perfect. I think with your strengths you have way more options than just UBC. If there is a weak link in your application somewhere you'll be able to find it, and fix it, or apply somewhere that looks less at it. Anyway, I am sure you'll get there one way or another. Use this as positive energy to look at all your options. Good luck!

[Guest Jazz]

Wow, sorry to hear that, the med school admission process can be a weird black box. I heard someone last yr was rejected with all scores above the admission average. Don't know if they change the process this yr but a med student once told me that in the final selection stage, the person who interviewed you briefly "introduce" you to the committee before they vote on your fate. That seem to leave some room for people with high scores to slip through the cracks. Maybe they went American and weighed the MCAT heavily? A 37 MCAT avg is insane, if it's not a typo, UBC must now have the highest avg MCAT in North America along with Washington U.

Anyways, highly qualified applicants like yourself will get an offer somewhere, it's just UBC's loss.

[Guest threeputt]

Hi Red, sorry to hear about your bad luck. I just read your other post about your MCAT scores (in relation to your overall academic score) and had a thought... maybe the low VR score is one of those red flags that's thrown up (sort of like an unofficial cut-off) but they overlooked it for deciding on interviews because your other stats are quite impressive. So they grant you the interview to see if your interview score will "make up" for the VR score, but someone in the panel wasn't quite impressed enough, so then the VR "cut-off" takes effect. Boom, you are SOL...

 

Just another theory, maybe a stretch, but we gotta look at everything in a strange case like this.

[Guest red]

Yeah- I've wondered about that too, although last year when I had a lower set of MCAT marks in the BS and PS than I had this year, Doc Frinton said that that had not been a problem at all because they don't really use the MCATS. But they really do go over things with a fine tooth comb so-to-speak when it comes down to making that final choice- they really have to pick at little things (sigh...). I'll ask about everything that's been mentioned in these threads at the feedback session I'll make next week

 

And thanks for the insight everyone. It's really great to have such a wonderful support network with people who've been through the whole crazy process- I don't think my non-med friends and family can really understand it completely. They sometimes wonder if the aggravation and the broken heart is really worth it. Funny how the dedication to medicine really sucks some of us in eh?

[Guest me maniac]

red,

 

a few years ago, they told me the same thing. I had 25/25 for academic, 21/25 for extracirc, good MCAT's, and stellar (as they put it) references. I was also told that some times people have to apply 2 or 3 times to get in and I was very pissed off to say the least, much like yourself. I know this won't make you feel any better right now, but many people in my class are repeat applicants, myself included. I am in first year right now, but in my heart, I hate UBC's attitude and what they put people through.

 

Like me (and many others), just keep applying and you will get in. I feel your pain.

 

me

[Guest McCarey007]

Another thing you have to look at is the SD of the interview marks. Perhaps the scores were tight around the 85% range, so an 82 might be substantially lower than what it appears to be. Given that the interview consists of 50% (or something around that ) of the total file mark, then the lower interview mark might really jeopardize your chances. Combine that with a lower VR score or a bad reference, then that might give the admissions committee enough reason not to offer you acceptance.

 

 

I also suspect that we really get compared to other people similar to us. In other words, if your GPA and MCAT are near perfect, then you are compared to other people with similar GPAs and MCATs. Let's face it, everyone who has an A- average in undergrad is academically capable of doing well in med school. I recall that the MCAT was historically used as a tie-breaker. So if we compare your stats to someone who had 22/25 academic, 18/25 non academic, 81 interview (all of which are slightly lower than yours) but, 10,10,10,Q MCAT and 3 strong references....then the decision of who to accept is not so clear. Unfortunately, you have to give them a reason to take you, or not have any blemishes on your file.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm trying to rationalize a situation in which the admissions committee has to go through. It's hard for them, but it's even harder on us. I feel for you though. :\

 

Have you gotten acceptances at other schools? With such a strong academic and non academic score, all you have to do is pull your VR mark up, and you will no doubt have your pick of which med school to go to next year!

[Guest physiology]

Hello Red,

 

No, they did not give me any scores whatsoever. I don't think I can get them either.

 

Also, I'm pretty confident that it's more than just an overall score (interview, non-academics and academics) that gets you in.

 

That's why they meet, discuss and nitpick at every candidate. If it were all just numbers, then why meet at all? Let a computer do the job.

 

So in that meeting, they may look at the comments written by your interviewers, reference letters, and autobiographical essay to assess personality traits like maturity, motivation for medicine, aptitude, that stuff.

 

Anyway, it's all speculation, but I have a feeling that's how it works. So, that MIGHT mean that some accepted candidates have lower scores than waitlisted/rejected people solely because they are seen as exceptional in some facet of their non-academic life.

 

Damn, what we need are hidden cameras while the adcom meets, cuz I'd sure as hell like to know EXACTLY how it happens too.

[Guest McCarey007]

Oh, and this is not confirmed for UBC, but at many other med schools, they look at what you have done since your last unsuccessful application.

 

Have you had a productive year? Because that plays a factor as well and doesn't necessarily show up on your final scores.

 

Just another thought....

[Guest red]

Yes- I like to think I was productive anyway- I've published a paper, travelled alot as usual, instructed climbing and facilitated team-building with at-risk youth and ESL students, and had a research job where I would interview patients with heart disease and their families in some pretty intense situations just before or after surgery. All this was new and I thought that was productive. Am I out to lunch? I'm thinking I need a physician for a ref next time. I didn't do so this year because I hadn't worked with one for long enough. Just found out a friend used a ref that he had only known for two months! I thought it had to be 2 years (and he was accepted).

[Guest kanayo101]

hey red,

 

i feel for you...

 

you mentioned in your last comment you had a research job where you interviewed heart patients before surgery. how did you run across something like that? that would be really neat especially considering i've had two immediate family members have open heart surgery...

[Guest Koppertone]

Hey red,

All I can say is that with your scores and experiences you're a shoe in somewhere, maybe just not UBC. I got rejected, but I can see why; my file review was lower than average (I lost out big on extra cirrics as I had expected when I compared myself to others). However a lot of the process is very subjective so I can definately see the frustration that you have, and if you're going to be applying again next year I would suggest trying some other schools as you seem to have really stellar traits. Competition is so high at UBC that it wouldn't hurt fanning out to other schools.

[Guest 4EverRose]

Hey red,

 

I am sorry for you and it definitely sounds like bad luck. I agree with the others that most likely it is some subjective comments from the final meeting or the reference letters that hold you off. I think the reference letters are not part of the non-academic score out of 25 since that score was computed prior to interviews and the reference letters are submitted afterwards.

 

With your academic and non-academic numbers, I am sure that you can get into some other med schools. The other one obstacle might be your MCAT VR. How low is your VR? A lot of schools in the East coast does have a minimum requirement for VR which prevents you from applying. Perhaps rewritting the MCAT to boost your VR score is something that you want to think about.

 

Finally, I think your previous year has been productive - seem to have a good balance between work and extracurricular experience. Hopefully you will find out the details in your feedback meeting soon.

[Guest kupo]

yo red,

 

i have to feel for you as well. you have a lot better credentials than i have. i was waitlisted (though that list is probably reeeeeeeeeeeealllly looong)

 

i do have a very average MCAT 9-10-11 O (my last one could have been better, but was 4-11-12 R) and an average of 85 (86 in last 60).

 

i think it is the interview comments. not just hte score, but the actual comments. there are certainly a few things that i could have done better to improve my interview and how i portrayed myself. which are small details that could mean a lot.

 

For example, one of my interviewer kept asking me "what else?" to one of the questions that required my to list qualities of a physician. A) i drew a blank and missed one key quality that i always remembered and i should have held back one or two things (just list the most important ones first) i had in mind in the event that he asked me "what else?" then i would have something to say within the next 30 seconds rather than spending 2 minutes trying to think of something that i have already listed (and i ended repeated myself - and kicking myself afterwards). while it may be good to reinforce some of the qualities, i think i conveyed to them: "wow he cant think of anything else and is repeating himself".

 

i may be out to lunch with this, but all in all i think its small details of your interview that doesnt necessarily reflect the mark, but reflects the impression of the interviewer(s) and their comments that can put you ahead subjectively above the rest.

 

 

meh

 

kupo

[Guest red]

I think you're right. There certainly are little things (or not so little eh?) in my interview that could have been better- I wish I could get to my point more quickly than I do in those damn things! But at least I can work on that for next time. I'm positive the interview held me back even though I thought it was quite reasonable for the most part. But to not be waitlisted again this year is heartbreaking even if that list may be quite long.

 

Hey-does anyone agree with the idea that having an MD for a reference may be better than someone else who knows you more? I'm really wondering about some of the politics behind the process. There are rumors of course...I'm so energized by this rejection that I already have emails out to potential new referees! I guess that may be a healthier way to spend an otherwise aggravating time.

[Guest coastal79]

Koppertone,

 

Selfish me, I was hoping you'd get accepted to UBC and choose it over U Man (which I'd prefer over UBC). Oh well, hopefully I'll see you in the Peg in the fall.

 

Cheers

[Guest Makunouchi]

That really is too bad red... a bug in the system... (everything except my interview score was above the mean, but some of your scores are higher.]

 

I'm sure you'll get in somewhere, but you probably already know that. Keep on truckin'!

[Guest Koppertone]

Well I will say this: out of every place I went, Winnipeg was by far the friendliest. I mainly wanted to get into UBC to make moving simpler (as I wouldn't have had to move), however I'm still incredibly excited about Manitoba and hopefully you'll be joining me there shortly!