fishy0118 Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Hello ... I am wondering if there are ppl who, upon entering med school, find that medicine is not what they want afterall? One can argue that no one would make the effort to get past all the hurdles (filling out app, MCAT, interview, ... ) and then say "oops ... i don't want it now". But are there cases where ppl have truly experienced/felt what it is like to be in med and then decide it's not the right thing for them ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I've read stories on here of when it's happened, but usually by that time you're so buried in debt that there are few other options other than continuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinknoodle Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I heard of someone stopping meds after first year to pursue teaching instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Yep, it does happen...just like in any other career. But it isn`t all that common. Probably for the reasons already mentionned, it is alot of work just to get there and then there is the debt factor and possibly just not knowing whatelse to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffp Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I HATED the preclinical years. First of all, I hated being away from home, in a city where the only people I knew were other med students. They seemed 100% focused on studying and med school, and it felt impossible to get away. The classes I tend to enjoy are 1. logic and reasoning (like math and physics or 2. Arts - English, philosophy, history, etc. I HATE rote memorization of seemingly disconnected facts (ie. bio). Well... medical school is about 95% that - memorization. I love learning, but hate the classroom, and I couldn't STAND sitting in lecture all day. In high school/undergrad, I would just skip, but in med I felt huge peer pressure to show up for every class because everyone around me seemed so keen. I couldn't actually LEARN anything in lecture, so felt that time was wasted because I had to learn everything on my own when I got home again anyway. When I started clerkship, things were a bit better. Unfortunately, my second rotation (gen surg) was not very pleasant, and that soured the whole experience for me. I was happier to be out doing practical things instead of stuck in the classroom. When you start PRACTICING medicine, there is a lot more logic and thinking involved than just trying to memorize something in a book. I didn't start to really enjoy what I was doing until mid-way through 1st year residency, at a different school and in my residency of choice. Now that I'm in my subspecialty of choice, I'm REALLY happy, and couldn't imagine myself doing anything else... but it was a rough ~4-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane200 Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Hee hee... this reminds me of a conversation that my classmates and I had back when we were med students. There were people who left our class, but they did it in first year - mainly to pursue more research, because those were their passion. But my classmates did have this discussion - we calculated, given the astronomic rate of our tuition (we were the first class in Ontario to deregulate the fees), that the only time that one could drop out was at the end of first year. By then, you would have amassed some $15k of tuition debt (already not counting books, living expenses, that apartment in downtown, food, etc), which, anymore than that, would be nearly impossible to pay back later on should you end up in any other occupation other than medicine. I suppose that you could do dentistry or win the lottery or do M&As on Bay street - and even then, you need connections to get that kind of job to make that kind of money to pay off that kind of debt. For students, that amount is quite formidable already. We all called this the point of no return, and when we were discussing it, we were well into third year already. If you had to drop out, you had to do it half way through 1st year or something like that. Things were different when tuition used to be around 5-7k a year (or even less than that!) just 10 years ago (prior to deregulation). I suppose back then, people could do med school, drop out even during clerkship, or even change their minds and decide to be something else. That kind of choice is a luxury today given the price of a medical education today - and, nothing has changed about the quality of teaching... all that money that we pay extra didn't go to our teachers or facilities for medical students either. It was a transfer of wealth to both the university and the banks at our expense, I still think. But you do what you have to do to become what you want to be. I don't think that the price of tuition prevented anyone from entering medicine. We all borrow from the banks. But it does limit your choice to get out of medicine even just 2 years into med school. It may also affect what we choose to do for specialties too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Soccer Guy Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 My boss' son was always one of the top in his class. He was one of those students that did not have to study at all. He ended up choosing dentistry over medicine. He applied to Ottawa (i think) and Wayne State. They both accepted him, but he choose Wayne State over Ottawa because his brother in law was accepted to Wayne State at the same time. If you know anything about tuition fees for international students, you probably know that he had to pay about $40,000 US a year which is a lot more than what the tuition would have been in Ottawa. Anyways, after his second year he decided that this was not what he wanted to do and dropped out. He is now working for Chrysler for about $30/hour and still paying off his tuition. Really stupid, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintabatty Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 When I started doing these pre reqs, I wanted to go into medicine, then a few doctors and particularily a vet I knew well suggested to me that with my choice lifestyle, I might be better suited as a dentist. Some guys say being a GP turns into a grind like any other job, but to each his own, Ive chosen dentistry btw I cant imagine being married to a hospital! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamuh Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Guys, I think life isn't about money. I would prefer earn 20k /year and be happy than winning 200 k and not be happy. A neurologist told that one of the guy in is class was R2 in family medecine. He met a girl who was a flower sellers. He decided to quit medecine and he opened a new business with this girl. He is still with that girl and couldn't be happier. Life is short. Someone who doesn't like medecine should quit because you have to love what you do if you want to be a good clinician. But I agree that with the tuitions, it's hard to leave med school, except in Qc where the fees are about 3K/year Yamuh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 A neurologist told that one of the guy in is class was R2 in family medecine. I think I know who you are (you mentioned that story before, in real life. (Dr. Dea... being the neurologist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamuh Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I think I know who you are (you mentioned that story before, in real life. (Dr. Dea... being the neurologist). I don't know who you are! I read a couple of your posts... How was you elective with Dr Fortin?? He was my tuteur in neuro. I went a couple of times with him for neurosurg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffp Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Akane200, I hear you about the tuition and debt! Back in the day, my med school tuition was $5-6K/year (and I was annoyed because it was more expensive than undergrad!). I can't imagine paying what people are paying now! Government student loans for a med student maxed out at $15K/year when I was a student... and it seemed they were always finding some stupid excuse not to give the maximum. Have government loan limits been increased proportionally to tuition? I see how even investing one year's tuition could be seen as reaching a "point of no return". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchdutch Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Have government loan limits been increased proportionally to tuition? I see how even investing one year's tuition could be seen as reaching a "point of no return". I'm not totally sure about meds, but the government loans for undergrad sure haven't been increased proportionally (at least net where I'm from). In fact, I read a fact shee that the government hasn't increased their allowed living expense limit for a good 7 or so years - with increases in rent and the general cost of living, this makes an undergrad almost unaffordable for someone who doesn't have their parents to help (like me!). Part/Full-time jobs during full-time school are not in the least uncommon in my circles as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I HATED the preclinical years.... So glad to hear that. Approaching the end of preclinical right now, and like many of my classmates I'm hoping that the practice of medicine is more interesting than the study of medicine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfette Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Guys, I think life isn't about money. I would prefer earn 20k /year and be happy than winning 200 k and not be happy. A neurologist told that one of the guy in is class was R2 in family medecine. He met a girl who was a flower sellers. He decided to quit medecine and he opened a new business with this girl. He is still with that girl and couldn't be happier. Life is short. Someone who doesn't like medecine should quit because you have to love what you do if you want to be a good clinician. But I agree that with the tuitions, it's hard to leave med school, except in Qc where the fees are about 3K/year I think that sounds really great in theory, but in real life it's not so easy. Given the choice between being poorer and happy and being richer and unhappy, most people would probably choose the first. However, being poor doesn't mean that you'll be happy and being rich doesn't mean that you'll be unhappy. I doubt anyone goes into medicine (especially since it's so hard to get into!) without hoping to love it - the problem is that it doesn't turn out quite the way they expect it to. For example, suppose I were a med student in fourth-year and I had amassed a ridiculous amount of loans through undergrad and med school (say $100 000) because I didn't have parents who could afford to help me out. Suppose also that I didn't enjoy med school and I didn't expect that I would enjoy practicing as a physician. I have two options: I could stay in medicine for another 5-10 years or so in order to re-pay finish the process and re-pay my debts. I might not be happy in medicine, but at least I would eventually have financial freedom, which might allow me to pursue other things after that. Maybe 5-10 years later when I'm out of debt, I could change careers. OR, I could drop out of medicine and go into another career which (presumably) pays a lot less. I might like the job, but I would be burdened with debt for the REST OF MY LIFE. I would have no financial freedom to pursue any other goals that I might want (eg. buy a house, pay for my children's education, take a vacation start a business, etc.). And on top of that, there's no guarantees in life. I might also not like the second job! If you were absolutely certain that you'd like something other than medicine and if you felt that the lifelong debt load was preferrable to staying in medicine, then sure change careers. But I think that in most cases, it's not that black-and-white. So the financial burden of med school does often force people to stay in medicine when they might not otherwise want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcave Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I have a good friend from my undergrad biology degree who went to medical school right after graduation (1995). I didn't really see her again until she move out to Vancouver Island in 2002. She HATES being a doctor (her words "I f%^king hate it"). She works only 20 hours/week in 3 different walk in clinics because she doesn't want to see the same people over and over again. I asked her what she hates and she said she hates the patients and hates being responsible for them. I called her up when I decided to apply to med school and she laughed in my face. She told me I was F*$%ing crazy, that I would do well in school but get my ass sued off when I was practicing because I tend to be very blunt. Her scenario was: "some fat lazy bastard will come in to see you and you will call him/her a fat lazy bastard and they will sue you ass off..." I decided not to ask her for a reference letter Anyway, I think her problem is that she is just waaaay too uptight in general and worried about getting sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Anyway, I think her problem is that she is just waaaay too uptight in general and worried about getting sued. And happens to hate people, being in a profession that's ALL about people, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Akane200, I hear you about the tuition and debt! Back in the day, my med school tuition was $5-6K/year (and I was annoyed because it was more expensive than undergrad!). I can't imagine paying what people are paying now! Government student loans for a med student maxed out at $15K/year when I was a student... and it seemed they were always finding some stupid excuse not to give the maximum. Have government loan limits been increased proportionally to tuition? I see how even investing one year's tuition could be seen as reaching a "point of no return". Nope, max OSAP doesn`t cover tuition. And yep, despite that, somehow they manage to not give out the max amount!! One reason for this is that one of the loans (can`t remember if it is federal or provincial but I think it is the provincial part) doesn`t calculate you need based on the actual tuition you pay. Instead it is calculated with a pre-set $4000k/semester (something like that), and who cares that you pay twice that much. The other part of the loan does take into account your actual tuition but, that is only part of your loan! I generally really hate banks. But I have to say, thank God for banks and them giving us LOCs, or I wouldn`t be in med school!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcave Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 And happens to hate people, being in a profession that's ALL about people, lol. She doesn't hate people, just patients. Patients aren't people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffp Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 drcave, I think your frankness might be an asset! One of the best cardiologists I work with is very frank... he tells it like it is! Example, "This rhythm is a huge pain in the a$$, but it won't kill you!" Patients love him... residents love him... I know a rheumatologist who is very frank as well. Unfortunately, she doesn't always choose her moments to be frank. Once when i was a junior resident, we were seeing this young, teary woman in clinic for joint pain. She had to be about 70lb overweight, and all of her tests had been negative. The rheumatologist walked into the room and said, "I'm Dr. X, and I have heard your whole story from ffp. I think your joints hurt because you are FAT!" Needless to say, the patient burst into tears, her mom (who had accompanied her) turned bright red, and you could practically see the smoke coming out of her ears as she mentally composed her letter of complaint to the College. LOL... gotta choose your moments, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 drcave, I think your frankness might be an asset! One of the best cardiologists I work with is very frank... he tells it like it is! Example, "This rhythm is a huge pain in the a$$, but it won't kill you!" Patients love him... residents love him... I know a rheumatologist who is very frank as well. Unfortunately, she doesn't always choose her moments to be frank. Once when i was a junior resident, we were seeing this young, teary woman in clinic for joint pain. She had to be about 70lb overweight, and all of her tests had been negative. The rheumatologist walked into the room and said, "I'm Dr. X, and I have heard your whole story from ffp. I think your joints hurt because you are FAT!" Needless to say, the patient burst into tears, her mom (who had accompanied her) turned bright red, and you could practically see the smoke coming out of her ears as she mentally composed her letter of complaint to the College. LOL... gotta choose your moments, I guess. LOL, I say it's less about choosing the moments and more about packaging your statements in a socially acceptable manner, heh. Even using the word "overweight" instead of "fat" would've made a huge difference, let alone some actual caring discussion of the patient's weight problem and detailed and respectful suggestions on what to do to correct the issue. OT, but I was reading smth today and it mentioned that 40% of people who have been prescribed a weight loss drug (think Xenical) have never been told by their doctor to exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeDoc Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 LOL, I say it's less about choosing the moments and more about packaging your statements in a socially acceptable manner, heh. Even using the word "overweight" instead of "fat" would've made a huge difference, let alone some actual caring discussion of the patient's weight problem and detailed and respectful suggestions on what to do to correct the issue. OT, but I was reading smth today and it mentioned that 40% of people who have been prescribed a weight loss drug (think Xenical) have never been told by their doctor to exercise. Topamax (Topiramate) is off label for weight loss, and not just 5 pounds try like 45 pounds. It's an anticonvulsant, and some people claim it helps with mood swings. I was talking with a pharmacist, and she said that once there was a patient whom they thought had TB because she lost so much weight so quickly, but it was just the topamax. Honestly though, no one likes being told that they are fat. It just kills the person's self esteem, I've had a bit of a weight issue 15 or so pounds. I called it the add 15 and study period of my life. All I did was study, and eat, and eat. No physical activity, other than running to the library. Talk about setting yourself up for a DVT. Anyways, started running, the pounds came off, gotta love that whole speeding up your metabolism thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 I called it the add 15 and study period of my life. All I did was study, and eat, and eat. No physical activity, other than running to the library. Talk about setting yourself up for a DVT. Anyways, started running, the pounds came off, gotta love that whole speeding up your metabolism thing. I've found that exercising regularly actually helps with studying. Partly just because you get a break from sitting on your ass (otherwise you'll get antsy eventually and it will be harder and harder to concentrate), and then there are all those studies that show that physically active people seem to do better on a lot of intellectual tasks than sedentary folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeDoc Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 I've found that exercising regularly actually helps with studying. Partly just because you get a break from sitting on your ass (otherwise you'll get antsy eventually and it will be harder and harder to concentrate), and then there are all those studies that show that physically active people seem to do better on a lot of intellectual tasks than sedentary folks. Agreed, Jochi your so smart....wow your intelligence makes me feel all funny inside. Hahahahaha...it's true though I've been running one hour every day, if I don't run I rollerblade. It's awesome, gets that adrenaline pumping, releases those endorphins and you sleep amazing. Then you wake up and ready to tackle the day with no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeDoc Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 I work with medical students all the time at the hospital. I go on rounds with them and all, and I remember that there is a point of no return they call it. By the end of second your you at least have spent $40,000, so you might as well finish it off. But in particular one of the medical students I know, told me this story. "So this friend of mine, we were in first year meds, and we were all doing great, bla bla bla....the end of the year comes and she has this epiphany and she realized she hated what she was doing. She dropped out, after the deans tried to convince her to stay, because at that point she was costing them money. So now she's working for a fortune 500 company as a CFO at 25 and making a killing and loving it." Then he made sure to stress to me, you better make sure meds is what you want, because if you don't get enough clinical exposure, to see what the nitty gritty is really like, then you might find yourself suited in another profesision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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