Is Med School even viable for me? What should I do..?

[FMX]

hahahahah, good thing you are of right mind to talk about a god complex champ

 

We have a winnAr here lets give him a e-pplaud!!

Damn you guys are fun to talk to.

 

Anyway, after some reflection on what I said earlier, I think what I should do is actually apologize to the OP. I know you may have certain issues that you don't want to discuss with us and I should not have torn you apart for lunch like the way I did. What really got me hot was how you thought it would be alright to talk down to other health professionals when you (At the moment anyway) should be in no position to do so.

 

Especially since I have a lot of friends that are going through nursing school seeing some of their struggles, growing up in the worst parts of town and working hard to achieve their dream in nursing has really inspired me to put out more of myself; and you slammed their hard work in a few sentences in your first couple posts.

[paramed6191]

Online universities such as Athabasca (sp?) in Alberta may also be an option - it gives you credits (you should check if they are used in meds admissions though - pretty important) and keeps you busy and studying.

 

Hi there, I actually emailed Dal the other day and asked if they accepted a degree from Athabasca for the purpose of getting into med school (as I would like to do a 2nd undergrad) and they said that it would be fine.

[Julie]

Hi StellarRay,

 

Well, you've already gotten tons of advice, but somehow I felt like adding my 2 cents

 

I think Jectin's suggestion regarding contacting other schools in Canada is a very good one (edit: if what you say regarding other Canadian schools honouring the suspension is true, I guess that may be out. However, might still be worth a shot at this point).

 

I agree. Sometimes when you're really determined, it's worth to contact everyone and see if someone will make an exception. At worst, it won't work out but you'll feel like you did everything you could. At best, you'll be able to keep studying.

 

Medical school can be very stressfull. In fact, just deciding to try to get into medical school puts a ton of pressure on many individuals. You want to make sure you're ready, even before you officially start trying, for the pressure that follows. It's one thing to say it's possible to go from a 1.something to a 4.0 or close, it's another to actually have to do it. Just thinking about your need to do it might be super scary. Because of this, here's what may be another option worth considering :

 

 

Spend some time thinking, truly thinking, about what you would like to do with your life if you can't be a doctor. I'm NOT saying you can't, but hypothetically, what would your second choice be? Try to consider all options, even those you've never thought of before or dismissed quickly because of prestige/$ reasons. Be honnest with yourself and let your ego/pride behind a bit. Then, whatever it is, try to enroll in the corresponding program in university and study that. Do your best. I don't think you should say to yourself "I need a 3.7 this semester", as much as "I want to see how well I can do this semester". Do the degree while really trying to work on yourself & your study methods. If all goes well, your GPA will gradually increase. Then, at the end, see how you did & how you feel about medicine. Maybe you'll have enjoyed that 2nd field so much, you'll no longer want to study med. Maybe you'll have the marks to apply to medical school and will go ahead with that. Right now, it's hard to say.

 

 

I think that what you're asking is weather you'll get in if you get perfect marks from now on. People here are skeptical because they need to see those marks to believe them. If you do get them, yes, there's still a chance. Not at every school, but at some. Like House said, "We all make mistakes, and we all pay a price". People in medicine generally have a very wide variety of interests. A second degree might be an occation to pursue one. I think it's important not to have a career tunnel vision. Many things are super fun, there are many options, and every step you take doesn't have to/shouldn't be a calculated move towards getting in med school.

 

Feel free to PM me if you'd like

[xylem29]

It's not about the dude's grades - it's about him overall.

 

"I got into a fight with my drunken dad and ran away from home"

 

"I can impress my girlfriend who dumped me and I can get her back once I become a doctor"

 

"Being a doctor is the most highest honor and I want to know if I can do it"

 

"I want to have the option of being like Dr. McDreamy"

 

I'm starting to think that this is a troll...

 

I don't even know why I'm bothering to type this out...this thread is probably giving him/her a good laugh though.

[Espere Une Minute]

From upthread:

 

...just to clarify, if it was me you were referring to, i never diagnosed StellarRay with depression but simply said that he seemed to be showing signs of depression in his posts and thought it would be a good idea to seek therapy/counseling for his own personal health.

 

Yeah, maybe I should clarify that it really wasn't my intention to "diagnose" you either, StellarRay. It was just that a number of statements in your original post really leaped out at me and made me concerned about your health, so I thought it was worth mentioning...

[Yood]

It's not about the dude's grades - it's about him overall.

 

"I got into a fight with my drunken dad and ran away from home"

 

"I can impress my girlfriend who dumped me and I can get her back once I become a doctor"

 

"Being a doctor is the most highest honor and I want to know if I can do it"

 

"I want to have the option of being like Dr. McDreamy"

 

I'm starting to think that this is a troll...

 

I don't even know why I'm bothering to type this out...this thread is probably giving him/her a good laugh though.

 

Dude, and if he isn't a troll? You've just pretty much told him his life is a joke (which it isn't). I'd just stop with all this troll business right now.

[MillerTime]

Just a couple quick things.

 

First, if you are still looking at info for the carribean, I stumbled upon this site last night after hearing that a friend of the gf is going down there for med school. Had some very interesting info regarding what you can do with the carribean MD/where you can do electives/residencies. http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/openletter.htm

 

Second quick thing is that I agree with the post above mine (Julie's). I think it'd be a good idea to really try to get a feel for other things that interest you, and that you might want to consider as a back up if either the med thing doesn't work out, or if you change your mind along the way. I remember in like the first week of first year for my undergrad, a prof asked the class of 300-400 people who was planning on going to med school. No joke, like 80% of the people raised their hands. Compare this to a couple years later, it probably would have been reversed with 80% of the people not raising their hands. People either just couldn't do it for academic/whatever reasons, or they simply changed their minds and decided it wasn't for them. Even though you're very into the idea of med school right now, who knows after a few years if you'll decide it's for you. I can guarantee that many people would not want the lifestyle of most doctors. Working 9-5 and having all weekends/holidays off is pretty damn sweet and loads of people would be much happier with that (i wonder often myself after having the past year off of school, haha). I think that once you get back into school, you'll get a better idea of the sort of lifestyle it'll take to acheive the necessary grades, and possibly a slight glimps into the life of a med student/doctor. You might decide it's for you, or maybe not, which is why it is important to have a backup plan in place. No reason why you can't try to acheive your goal for med school as well as giving yourself options. I'm sure it's hard to imagine right now, but there's a good chance that when you get your life all straightened out, that med school might not be goal #1. I know a lot of people with science degrees that don't want to do research/masters, and either don't have jobs or have jobs completely unrelated to their degree. You seem to be looking at these premed specific things that might help you get into med school, but if you change your mind, you'll still be stuck with nothing, and you'll be a few years older.

 

I personally don't think people starting their undergrad really have anything to base their desire to be an MD on, and I get the same impression from your posts. I'm not sure as you haven't mentioned any EC's other than meticulously planning how to cover everything up. Stuff like volunteering, time management (balancing EC's, school, personal life), academic experience (have you really studied your ass off consistently for any length of time to get a feel for the work involved) are ESSENTIAL, to deciding if medicine is for you. Again, I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem that you have this type of experience which would really give you more insight into whether or not you want to be a doctor. So please, make sure you factor in a backup plan, I can't emphasize this enough.

 

And some final advice that i've gotta say, talk to your parents. Sure it won't be easy, but suck it up and get it done. Try to get your personal life straightened out before you decide exactly what your plan is for trying to get into school. Getting your sh!t out in the open and starting on the path to fixing up relationships and trust issues that will arise may really change how you look at things, and i guarantee that if you keep yourself burdened with all this crap on your mind, there's no way you will be able to perform well enough in the academics.

 

I wish you good luck, not in becoming a doctor, but in getting your life straight, and really figuring out what you want to do with it.

 

oops, guess that wasn't all that quick, hah.

[estairella]

Well said Dunstable!!!

 

Dunstable has only two posts. They're both in this thread. What he said was beautifully written and nothing to be ashamed of, so no one would create a new account just to do that. Deductively-speaking he created a new account (July 2008) solely to defend the OP in this thread.

 

I won't 'judge', I'll just leave it at those facts.

[estairella]

Dude, and if he isn't a troll? You've just pretty much told him his life is a joke (which it isn't). I'd just stop with all this troll business right now.

 

At the very least I think we can all agree (if he is not actually a troll) that he has some serious issues - ones that I doubt any of you have even been close to facing. The internet is not the right place to seek help when your problems are so severe that you're losing touch with friends and family. So if you're actually compassionate and empathetic you would only have one message: "GO SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP". (And yes I know some posters have said that).

[dunstable]

Dunstable has only two posts. They're both in this thread. What he said was beautifully written and nothing to be ashamed of, so no one would create a new account just to do that. Deductively-speaking he created a new account (July 2008) solely to defend the OP in this thread.

 

I won't 'judge', I'll just leave it at those facts.

 

Hi estairella. Thanks for checking up on my posts and join date, it's quite interesting that you would do that and not at all creepy!

 

I'll clear up any possibilities of your stated facts leading to unsubstantiated statements by saying a) I'm a new user, but I have browsed these forums in the past when I was applying for med school and just didn't bother creating an account then, and I felt the need to get an account as I don't enjoy seeing anyone get ripped apart when they are only asking for constructive criticism from fellow students. I don't understand why people post at all if they only want to make someone feel worse than they already do. As I've said before, there's no grey area between constructive criticism and indecent, rude remarks.

 

Yes, I agree that he should seek professional help, which if I remember correctly, he mentioned that he already was. But, I do understand why he would post on this forum as there are undoubtedly, many intelligent and knowledgeable students here that can answer his school-related and career questions, which is what he probably wanted in the first place.

 

Cheers

[unknown user 7]

Dunstable has only two posts. They're both in this thread. What he said was beautifully written and nothing to be ashamed of, so no one would create a new account just to do that. Deductively-speaking he created a new account (July 2008) solely to defend the OP in this thread.

 

I won't 'judge', I'll just leave it at those facts.

 

I think I'm missing something...was ur comment in reference to my quote or in reference to Dunstable's quote that I was commenting on?

 

[Guest begaster]

Okay, three points to make:

 

1) Out of undergrad, forget U of T, Mac, and Ottawa. Forget OOP. You are looking for the schools that look at your last two or best two years. That basically leaves you with Western and Queen's.

 

2) If you want an MSc, you need two solid years above 3.7. That being said, doing a Master's for the sake of getting into medical school (and not due to a love for research) is a mistake. Even with an MSc, an abysmal GPA such as yours will keep you out of Ottawa and probably U of T, and for Western and Queen's, it really doesn't matter.

 

3) You are suspended for three years? Can you not change schools and start a new program? Transfer a few credits and do three years there to get your degree?

 

If yes: You need to absolutely destroy your MCAT to prove to everyone that the GPA is indicative of your laziness and not a lack of intelligence, alongside doing well on your GPA.

 

If not: Take these three years and get a job in healthcare. Become a paramedic. It will give you exposure to the field, which med schools love, and allow you to save money. Alongside it, audit the classes you need to take (or just buy the textbooks and read the material). Study for your MCAT, and destroy it. When you re-enroll, make sure you have that fire burning under your ass.

 

Realistically, you've ****ed around for five years now. You cannot fix this in a day or a week or a year. You're looking at a long road ahead with multiple years to rebuild what you've destroyed. If you really do have the passion, then you may persevere. Every year, students with very high GPAs and MCATs get rejected from Ontario schools, so you better be extraordinary in all other facets of your application if you want any chance. If you do not have this overwhelming need, though, and are just going into medicine to prove your girlfriend wrong and your parents right, you're going into the wrong field. Moreover, I would caution you against going to the Caribbean premed programs. They are incredibly expensive and not worth it. You will end up with a degree that is useless for everywhere but their med schools. Even if you manage to get around your suspension through a second school, I'd personally suggest you take at least a semester off to focus and heal yourself. See a psychiatrist if you can (don't your parents have a health plan?).

 

Good luck. Everyone deserves a second chance, just don't blow it - getting a third will turn improbable to impossible.

 

 

Edit - Didn't realize this had made it to nine pages. Esterailla, I don't think this guy is a troll, just misguided. Your post was pretty harsh. I'm not an Asian kid, but I know quite a few and to get suspended from school is one of those things they would never be able to tell their parents. Lying wasn't the right course of action, but you put someone between a rock and a hard place and you can't expect them to always be decent. I suggest you continue lying to your parents until you land a job and have a safe place to stay, in case they really do kick you out.

[solocup]

I think this guy's first order of business is to get treated for depression and not medical school admissions, GPA and Grey's Anatomy.

[Guest begaster]

One more thing:

 

Everyone who says that someone else should not be a doctor based on a message board post is not the kind of person I'd like taking care of my family as a physician.

 

OH SNAP IRONY!

 

Seriously though, stop judging people's abilities as doctors based on what they post on these forums. How you will interact with patients and how you interact with anonymous strangers on the Internet is rather different, don't you think?

[BrookH]

No, the suspension from any University in Canada is in effect nationwide, you cannot apply to any other University for a degree program, only as a special student. But, for the purpose of medical school, they only look at the fulltime years, to be eligible to apply, and these courses need to be inside a degree program (Honours program in most Ontario schools).

 

Have you thought about switching to another school to do a second degree? You were in the Human Bio Program at U of T, correct? Perhaps you might want to consider a second degree at another school that might not be so rigorous.

[xylem29]

Dude, and if he isn't a troll? You've just pretty much told him his life is a joke (which it isn't). I'd just stop with all this troll business right now.

 

This is a forum - if he isn't a troll then I hope he'll have the mental stability and maturity to be able to brush off negative comments from cyberspace like they were nothing.

[BrookH]

OP's best bet

1) Do college diploma or work, or both -- for 3 years, while in suspension.

2) Do volunteer work, etc. and be productive.

 

Return to University after the 3 years of suspension. Start anew.

 

I do not recommend going to premed+MD programs (6 years) offshore or abroad. That carries a lot of risk too, academically, financially, and time-wise. The premed credits earned are not transferrable either, and being suspended for 3 years (after 5 years of schooling) and not being able to apply to any other Universities in Canada as a result of that suspension, is not a strong position to start your medical schooling regardless whether there is a premed component or not.

 

If OP decides to go for 6-year (ie, premed+MD) offshore/abroad, based on high school marks AND some test (some schools don't require it), the OP should also realize there is big inherent risk in doing this. Not only from the academic success point of view, but also for licensure purposes requiring certain number of undergraduate credits in addition to the MD degree. OP should check with the schools offering 6-year premed+MD if the program will fulfill requirements.

 

Still, there are hoops and barriers to cross when OP decides to return to Canada afterwards. Won't be different from other IMGs, after the fact.

 

 

 

 

Okay, three points to make:

 

1) Out of undergrad, forget U of T, Mac, and Ottawa. Forget OOP. You are looking for the schools that look at your last two or best two years. That basically leaves you with Western and Queen's.

 

2) If you want an MSc, you need two solid years above 3.7. That being said, doing a Master's for the sake of getting into medical school (and not due to a love for research) is a mistake. Even with an MSc, an abysmal GPA such as yours will keep you out of Ottawa and probably U of T, and for Western and Queen's, it really doesn't matter.

 

3) You are suspended for three years? Can you not change schools and start a new program? Transfer a few credits and do three years there to get your degree?

 

If yes: You need to absolutely destroy your MCAT to prove to everyone that the GPA is indicative of your laziness and not a lack of intelligence, alongside doing well on your GPA.

 

If not: Take these three years and get a job in healthcare. Become a paramedic. It will give you exposure to the field, which med schools love, and allow you to save money. Alongside it, audit the classes you need to take (or just buy the textbooks and read the material). Study for your MCAT, and destroy it. When you re-enroll, make sure you have that fire burning under your ass.

 

Realistically, you've ****ed around for five years now. You cannot fix this in a day or a week or a year. You're looking at a long road ahead with multiple years to rebuild what you've destroyed. If you really do have the passion, then you may persevere. Every year, students with very high GPAs and MCATs get rejected from Ontario schools, so you better be extraordinary in all other facets of your application if you want any chance. If you do not have this overwhelming need, though, and are just going into medicine to prove your girlfriend wrong and your parents right, you're going into the wrong field. Moreover, I would caution you against going to the Caribbean premed programs. They are incredibly expensive and not worth it. You will end up with a degree that is useless for everywhere but their med schools. Even if you manage to get around your suspension through a second school, I'd personally suggest you take at least a semester off to focus and heal yourself. See a psychiatrist if you can (don't your parents have a health plan?).

 

Good luck. Everyone deserves a second chance, just don't blow it - getting a third will turn improbable to impossible.

 

 

Edit - Didn't realize this had made it to nine pages. Esterailla, I don't think this guy is a troll, just misguided. Your post was pretty harsh. I'm not an Asian kid, but I know quite a few and to get suspended from school is one of those things they would never be able to tell their parents. Lying wasn't the right course of action, but you put someone between a rock and a hard place and you can't expect them to always be decent. I suggest you continue lying to your parents until you land a job and have a safe place to stay, in case they really do kick you out.

[unknown user 7]

Haha, we're still on this. Lol.

[A-Stark]

I think this guy's first order of business is to get treated for depression and not medical school admissions, GPA and Grey's Anatomy.

 

Enough with the armchair internet diagnoses please. "Seek counselling" - yes. Beyond that, no one here is any position to offer advice as regards psychiatric problems

[solocup]

I'm not diagnosing him, I'm simply recommending him to re-order his list of priorities - to get some help with emotional problems first. Beyond that, I don't know how to help him with erasing a dismal academic record and boost a mediocre GPA to a stellar one so that he can get his foot in the door in medical school. I'm not an academic counsellor and I'm in no position to advise him in that regard either.

 

You may think I'm being unsympathetic. It's an unfortunate situation but it was due to his poor decision making and judgement. I'm in the wards and I've worked pro bono in inner city neighborhoods. I've seen people with more dire conditions whose needs are far more urgent.

 

Btw, who died and made you the referee? You're in no position to judge others either.

[xylem29]

I'm not diagnosing him, I'm simply recommending him to re-order his list of priorities - to get some help with emotional problems first. Beyond that, I don't know how to help him with erasing a dismal academic record and boost a mediocre GPA to a stellar one so that he can get his foot in the door in medical school. I'm not an academic counsellor and I'm in no position to advise him in that regard either.

 

You may think I'm being unsympathetic. It's an unfortunate situation but it was due to his poor decision making and judgement. I'm in the wards and I've worked pro bono in inner city neighborhoods. I've seen people with more dire conditions whose needs are far more urgent.

 

Btw, who died and made you the referee? You're in no position to judge others either.

 

The poster is a med student, they can do whatever they want

[StellarRay]

Thank you, BrookH, for laying it out like that. I was actually thinking pretty much along the exact same lines.

 

International med schools do carry huge risk factors academically, financially, and licensure. Obviously these med schools must have a high failure rate if they're willing to accept such a high volume of students. I think it was begaster who provided the link (http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/openletter.htm) but basically it looks like the chance of coming back to Canada requires 4-5 extra board exams, repeating maybe 2 yrs of residency, and not having a very good choice in placement. The author stresses that it just makes more sense to stay and work in the States since one would also be earning alot more south of the border.

 

I guess, really though, the reason I want to go to say St. George is because I wouldn't feel like I'm losing so much time just waiting to re-apply w/ no guarantee. Whereas at least with St George I would be "eligible" after 3 yrs of pre-med for their med school as long as I maintained a 3.2 GPA. So I would save time on the suspension and the required GPA is considerably lower. But what kind of scares me the most is that the Caribbeans seem "out-of-the-loop" or regular system. It seems harder to get placements (I've read they got deals with US hospitals but they're for not-so-great locations just like if you were to go back to Canada as a cIMG), it's harder to get recognized, and it's harder to advance into a speciality besides obs and gyn if that was ever a concern.

 

I think money is still a huge issue though. I think Jectin said money wasn't an issue so I wonder if he could help me out with that?

 

By the way, I know that Queen's and Western have been discussed as my best options since they only look at the last 2 consecutive yrs. But is Dalhousie the same? (http://admissions.medicine.dal.ca/academic_requirements.htm)

 

And based on my marks (1.37 GPA), is it even possible for me to change programmes/degrees, change U of T campuses, or even apply to another university in 3 yrs?

 

@xylem29 and solocup:

I'd appreciate it if you two could actually give me some kind of feedback instead of telling me I've ****ed up really badly (I get that) or still accusing me to be a troll.. Come on, my life does suck alot and I clearly don't have it as bad as some inner city patients or quake victims across the sea or anything... but my life does still suck. Having a dream to do something and knowing that all the odds are up against you.. that had I not been an idiot the first time around that life would've been so much easier... Feeling so passionate to be a student, that I can do this now just shove those textbooks in front of me and tell me what to read... but being told to "chill" out for the next 3 yrs... yeah, my life isn't as bad as 80% of the world but it's been enough to push me to the edge at times. I didn't have the bad luck to be born in 80% of the world, I've had the chance to attend one of the most elite academic institutes in the world, I've had the chance to realise my dreams were easily within my grasp at one time, I've had the chance to date the most perfect girl... I've had a chance to taste this kind of life and it's so hard to give up.

 

@estairella:

Honestly, more troll comments? It's clear as day that you were slanderously suggesting that Dunstable was a second account that I created to defend myself... If you could just leave if you aren't going to do anything besides question the credibility of my ****ed up life, I would appreciate that so much.

[cisran]

Hey Ray,

 

Have you looked in to the Michener institute? http://www.michener.on.ca. If you do have a stellar High School score maybe you can apply to one of their 3 year programs? All the best.

 

Cisran

[solocup]

Ok here's my suggestion. Forget about medical school for now and focus on getting a fresh start at a bachelor's degree. You might want to see an academic counsellor at your high school to see what your options are to restart a program afresh. You might even be able to transfer a few courses that you've passed at U of T to accelerate your program, which would shave a couple of terms off. If you can't do that here then do some research on whether you can get another bachelor's degree from the US, UK or Australia, if money is not an issue that is.

 

If you're allowed to restart, do well this time (change your major if you have to) and take the MCAT. If your numbers are good then start thinking about medical school first before neurosurgery. Keep in mind you have to explain why your grades were so low the first time. I would also suggest owning your mistakes to your parents, ask for forgiveness. Keep seeing the psychologist that you feel comfortable with and keep him up to speed about your progress.

[In_Valid]

Ok here's my suggestion. Forget about medical school for now and focus on getting a fresh start at a bachelor's degree. You might want to see an academic counsellor at your high school to see what your options are to restart a program afresh. You might even be able to transfer a few courses that you've passed at U of T to accelerate your program, which would shave a couple of terms off. If you can't do that here then do some research on whether you can get another bachelor's degree from the US, UK or Australia, if money is not an issue that is.

 

If you're allowed to restart, do well this time (change your major if you have to) and take the MCAT. If your numbers are good then start thinking about medical school first before neurosurgery. Keep in mind you have to explain why your grades were so low the first time. I would also suggest owning your mistakes to your parents, ask for forgiveness. Keep seeing the psychologist that you feel comfortable with and keep him up to speed about your progress.

 

Yea, there is no way you will be able to get into any medical school, international or Canadian, with a GPA of 1.37. You should be more concerned about redoing your undergrad. Even so, getting into a new institution will not be easy.

 

So yea, one step at a time. If medicine is truly what you want, then you will be able to tough it out.