Is Med School even viable for me? What should I do..?

[In_Valid]

Also keep in mind that even after redoing your undergrad there is no guarantee that you will be accepted into medical school. You may find that you wasted four years of your life and a pile of money.

 

I would suggest that you seriously consider looking to other things. Not everyone has to be a doctor.

[arctic_monkey]

Also keep in mind that even after redoing your undergrad there is no guarantee that you will be accepted into medical school. You may find that you wasted four years of your life and a pile of money.

 

I would suggest that you seriously consider looking to other things. Not everyone has to be a doctor.

 

In_Valid makes a good point. You should have some back-up plans. Unfortunately, if you want to do a second undergrad, most schools want to see your transcripts from the first undergrad and not just high school transcripts. This could make it tough to get into another school. But again, I haven't done much research in this area. Find out what programs interest you and call the schools, book meetings with Admissions staff and see what schools would be willing to accept you...

[polarb]

I'd say you take the three years off and worry about school after that. You obviously need the time off to get yourself back together.

 

Take the three years to work (pay your parents back!) and volunteer. And like someone said, taking the MCATS during that period wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

Then after these three years, get back in school, finish your undergrad (have you finished it yet if you only have 11.5 credits?) and then decide you STILL want to do medicine.

 

Honestly, I think three years in the work force will mature you and it is evident you should step away from school. Jumping back into an academic environment in these three years somewhere else, just wouldn't be a good idea. I know you claim you are ready but it would probably be safer just to take the time off.

[In_Valid]

I'd say you take the three years off and worry about school after that. You obviously need the time off to get yourself back together.

 

Take the three years to work (pay your parents back!) and volunteer. And like someone said, taking the MCATS during that period wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

Then after these three years, get back in school, finish your undergrad (have you finished it yet if you only have 11.5 credits?) and then decide you STILL want to do medicine.

 

Honestly, I think three years in the work force will mature you and it is evident you should step away from school. Jumping back into an academic environment in these three years somewhere else, just wouldn't be a good idea. I know you claim you are ready but it would probably be safer just to take the time off.

 

Taking the MCAT then WOULD be a bad idea. Since it is only valid for 3 years (or was it 5?). Regardless, you should take the MCAT close to the end of your undergrad program.

[mikee]

hello ray

this might help!

 

its from http://www.doesgodexist.org/JanFeb04/AbrahamLincolnOftenAFailure.html

 

Abraham Lincoln: Often a Failure

 

Editor's Note: We received this article anonymously from a person who said, "My mother gave me this when I was in high school and failed at something." It is a good example of how faith in God can give a person the ability to go on and try when there seems to be no reason to try.

 

 

Too often, it seems to me, people lose their courage in facing life because of past failures or fear that they may fail in the future. One good way to cure such fears is to remember the story of a man who actually built a life of accomplishments out of defeats.

 

The following litany of failures, followed by victories that punctuated his life throughout 30 years, is a living and eloquent example of successful use of defeat in achieving victory. Abraham Lincoln's record is as follows:

 

 

Lost job, 1832

Defeated for legislature, 1832

Failed in business, 1833

Elected to legislature, 1834

Sweetheart (Ann Rutledge) died, 1835

Had nervous breakdown, 1836

Defeated for Speaker, 1838

Defeated for nomination for Congress, 1843

Elected to Congress, 1846

Lost renomination, 1848

Rejected for Land Officer, 1849

Defeated for Senate, 1854

Defeated for nomination for Vice-President, 1856

Again defeated for Senate, 1858

Elected President, 1860

 

Lincoln's deep conviction that God had given him a commission to fulfill accounted in no small way for his deep humility and ability to push on in the face of difficulties and failures that would have discouraged most people. His abiding faith was well summed up in this comment, which he made after becoming President: "God selects His own instruments, and sometimes they are queer ones; for instance, He chose me to steer the ship through a great crisis."

 

 

Yes, you too, in God's providence, can be an instrument in bringing His love, truth, and peace to a world in urgent need of it. And with Abraham Lincoln, you can learn to say: "With God's help I shall not fail."

 

he could have quit many times, but hedidn't!

if you truly want to become a doctor, never give up!

he became a president, and you can become a doctor

 

 

good luck!

 

p.s : do not dream about you life, live ur dreams!!

[Guest begaster]

^

Lincoln was most certainly not a religious man.

[Sutler]

but if it takes 30 years to become a doctor...you won't have time to specalize...let alone actually work as a neurosurgeon

[In_Valid]

Then he was shot.

 

lol, he had a ****ty life and then he died.

[mikee]

Then he was shot.

 

then, he became one of the greatest presidents of all time

[Sutler]

then, he became one of the greatest presidents of all time

 

totally useless to him...he's dead

[mikee]

totally useless to him...he's dead

 

 

at least he knew that he made an possitive impact

we are gonna die one day, only some people are gonna be proud before they die

[EricCartman]

To OP,

I read your first few posts (not all of them), but this what I gather from them:

 

I think you feel that you have to live up to your parents expectations of regaining that honour of being a smart kid who used his/her potential successfully. And by persuing a speciality in medicine from a reputed school, you might gain that respect from your family and probably feel vindicated. However, from my personal experience (south asian family), parents often have unrealistic expectations. This could often confuse someone and deter them from searching their true passion. Worse is that sometimes, as a student, you feel guilty of not achieving your parents' goals.

 

In fact, my parents want/wanted me to be a medical doctor and I have always had my eye on dentistry. In fact, they still wish that I was studying medicine instead of dentistry, but I have learned not to pay attention to their expectations. At the end of the day, you will be the one doing all the work and if you are not happy with it, then it is kind of not worth it. you have to live your own life and not your parents'.

 

so my suggestion is to start your undergrad all over again at some other university and live on campus (not at home). Don't try to rush into medicine right away. keep yourself busy in your free time...like have a relaxing hobbie to get your mind away from your past. Explore different things to make sure that medicine is what you want. Explore the challenges involved in persuing and practicing medicine. and then decide if you really want medicine or some other profession. Besides, I think you will realize that in the grand scheme of things, not having a prestigious career is not the end of the world!

 

I don't know if it is impossible or possible to enter medicine with your academic history. But in the next five years, anything can happen academically. you can really turn things around academically for the better. all you can do is try and then you'll know if it is possible or not. Otherwise, at this stage, we can all sit here and speculate on an uncertain matter.

[moltenflammingcore]

Nicely Done Eric Cartman! I concur!!!

 

To OP,

I read your first few posts (not all of them), but this what I gather from them:

 

I think you feel that you have to live up to your parents expectations of regaining that honour of being a smart kid who used his/her potential successfully. And by persuing a speciality in medicine from a reputed school, you might gain that respect from your family and probably feel vindicated. However, from my personal experience (south asian family), parents often have unrealistic expectations. This could often confuse someone and deter them from searching their true passion. Worse is that sometimes, as a student, you feel guilty of not achieving your parents' goals.

 

In fact, my parents want/wanted me to be a medical doctor and I have always had my eye on dentistry. In fact, they still wish that I was studying medicine instead of dentistry, but I have learned not to pay attention to their expectations. At the end of the day, you will be the one doing all the work and if you are not happy with it, then it is kind of not worth it. you have to live your own life and not your parents'.

 

so my suggestion is to start your undergrad all over again at some other university and live on campus (not at home). Don't try to rush into medicine right away. keep yourself busy in your free time...like have a relaxing hobbie to get your mind away from your past. Explore different things to make sure that medicine is what you want. Explore the challenges involved in persuing and practicing medicine. and then decide if you really want medicine or some other profession. Besides, I think you will realize that in the grand scheme of things, not having a prestigious career is not the end of the world!

 

I don't know if it is impossible or possible to enter medicine with your academic history. But in the next five years, anything can happen academically. you can really turn things around academically for the better. all you can do is try and then you'll know if it is possible or not. Otherwise, at this stage, we can all sit here and speculate on an uncertain matter.

[Guest begaster]

Such a nihilist.

[ysk1]

The OP posted this on 07-09-2008 and now this thread has over 10 pages in 3 days! Amazing..

[boodog]

Yes, with all due respect to the OP, it may be possible for you to get to med school. Although to put things in perspective to you OP, you "claim" to be passionate, however there are students with GPAs higher than 3.8, with MCATs better than 30, done plenty of volunteer work, done research, even published scientific articles, that are very friendly, personable individuals that still don't make it into medical school. Many of these types of students make it in the second time round. But it is almost insulting to the many students on this forum to see the arrogance of someone who has a 1.37 gpa and still thinks they can do medicine, let alone neurosurgery. I understand that you have experienced failure, dissapointment and rejection. All of us do at one point. I wish you the best. Just keep in mind that very passionate and qualified students also experience failures, this is why many are accusing you of being a troll.

[The Law]

totally useless to him...he's dead

 

In some cultures, what you are remembered for once you die is more important than how you are perceived while alive.

[mikee]

however there are students with GPAs higher than 3.8, with MCATs better than 30, done plenty of volunteer work, done research, even published scientific articles, that are very friendly, personable individuals that still don't make it into medical school. Many of these types of students make it in the second time round. But it is almost insulting to the many students on this forum to see the arrogance of someone who has a 1.37 gpa and still thinks they can do medicine

 

same feeling sometimes

[Averance]

To the OP, if you really think you can do medicine, then go for it.

 

It takes only two, that's right two, years to completely turn your life around and get accepted into medical school.

 

Two years of good grades, summer research (although start with volunteering with that GPA), clubs, volunteering, etc. to make you super competitive for med in Canada (at some schools).

 

Two years is not a lot of time to be a doctor, now is it?

 

And another point to the OP, there are a lot of smart kids - basically many of the people in university didn't even have to study to get their 90's in high school and proceed into university. A good portion of those that get into medical school dont' study much either to get their grades in university.

 

Do you see what I'm getting at? I guess not. i'll explain. At every junction the 'smart kids that dont' have to try' have to try a little harder to succeed at the next level. And the amount of people that can do this at each level drops, and so now you are left with people that don't try and get bad marks, but find it hard to try.

 

I once read an article that explained this phenomenon. There are many many smart 'gifted' kids, but only a handful of truly world-changing adults. Logically, many of these kids will realize at some point of their lives that they don't have 'limitless potential' but are bound like ordinary people. To these kids, this sort of realization and dissipointment is worse the later in life you realize it. It takes a transition period to realize this, and you need to go through this to function again properly and get your life back on track (in terms of academics). For the record, I, was one of these kids, and therefore I had a bad year during my 'transition' year into university.

[StellarRay]

Thank you everyone for your support and ideas.

 

@boodog:

I completely agree and have been repeatedly saying that I'm not here to offend anyone and I've said that some people would just be appalled and offended that it seems like I'm trying to cut in line. I do know that many kids have to work hard to get their GPAs to where they are now and I have no intention of cutting in front of those kids. But this thread is really to ask and gather as much intelligence and consensus as I can online from people who have done alot of the research and homework behind med school. Don't get me wrong, I'm trying my best to research all my options but online forums are another good medium to use.

 

@Averance:

I completely agree with you on that. That transition from being the smart kid to being just ordinary is a real shocker and something I handled poorly which ended up compounding and compounding with the fear, stress, and lies.

 

Yeah, the bare minimum is 2 yrs to get accepted into Queens, Western, and I think Dalhousie. There's also the 3 yrs I'm suspended for that I'd have to wait out.. so technically 5 yrs from now I could try again. But it seems most people recommend starting an entirely new degree (4 yrs) and perhaps even going to grad school first (2 yrs). That would take me anywhere between 7-9 years from now.

 

Another thing, getting the lab research in 2 yrs is quite hard given that I'd need at least one year to prove myself in my grades which would mean I'd have to wait till the 2nd yr summer to apply but I'd also be applying for med school hypotheotically by then.

 

It's a tough choice... to wait 7-9 years and still not know if it'd be accepted into med school (which would add another 4-8 years.. making me 34-40 by the time I'm fully licensed as a doctor) is a scary thought. A poster named Elaine apparently just got into Queen's med school after suffering from less than a 1.50 GPA, she worked as a paramedic in her years off I think, and then she came back and kicked butt and got accepted. Pretty much exactly as my option 1 would be.

 

The other option appears to be if I were to run away to the Carribean (ie St George). I believe their pre-med only looks at high school marks, SAT score, and financial statements proving that you can afford school (which I think works out to around $220,000 for the 7 yrs of tuition not including rent, cost of living, etc). Right now, I'm really leaning towards the Carribean because at least then I wouldn't feel like I might waste those 3 yrs on suspension possibly getting a college diploma or certification for something I don't have my heart set on and another 4 yrs of undergrad only to try again. If I had a choice, I think I'd say with an 85% degree of certainty that I'd take it and fly over to St George this Christmas for the start of the December term. I know it's unbelievably hard to believe and logically I wouldn't expect anyone to believe me without proof, but I do think that I can push myself to the top if I'm given this chance. Passion doesn't mean much to some. Just words afterall.. but to me that feels like what I've lacked all my life. It's truly an unbelievable feeling. ^^

 

Obviously the plus side of waiting to go back to university is that the undergrad degree is recognized whereas the pre-med at St George is not. But yeah... getting a loan for $220,000+ seems really unlikely. The only thing that's worth anything is probably our house and if my parents sold it they could probably fetch around $500,000. But just how vile and disgusting would I have to be to accept half their life savings? The pressure would be enormous. And given my academic history and the lies... I doubt any parent would ever consider giving their child a quarter of a million dollars to pursue this.

 

As a Dr. Rokshana put it over at valuemd.com (http://www.valuemd.com/relaxing-lounge/159864-how-will-new-us-schools-affect-better-caribb-schools-4.html#post857050),

 

"the pro you ask??? Well the fact that I am a doctor- an MD in a university-based residency program would be my biggest pro....i wait listed 2 years in a row in the US with no realistic chance of getting a school to accept me if i applied a 3rd time...my choices would have been to be 4 years older- one option was to be Dr. Rokshana, the other to be Ms. Rokshana... THAT is the big pro....

 

If you have read ANY of my post, you would see that I am definitely NOT an advocate for coming down to the caribbean (or any other foreign school) before you have exhausted any and all possiblities of getting in a US school, but if you can't, well the carribean will allow you to become a doctor....

 

so I can say I HAVE done it ...you well...that is to be seen...."

 

Everyone can question what my motives for being a doctor are but right now I'd just appreciate it if we could discuss how I can reach this little dream of mine if it's really possible and what are the odds. Also, does anyone know any good places to get medical school loans (including federal, banks, line of credits, etc) and approximately how much I'm looking at? I believe OSAP does cover a little as well.

 

Thank you all. You have no idea how much this means to me that I have people to ask and talk to who have been there and done that or are planning to go to med school. It drives me insane trying to do all this research on my own and having very few knowledgeable people to turn to in real life. My dad is not a doctor and my mom isn't a nurse so I don't have any "path" laid out for me. I thank you all again.

[boodog]

best of luck man. if i were you, i'd try a college that offers first year courses in sciences and arts. get that stellar GPA. then hope you win an award to pay part of the tuition for the following year. after those two years, i'd make the step to university, then try again either in the Carribean, or in Canada if you get two good years and are dedicated. good luck.

[KennethToronto]

To put it bluntly, you would be nuts to go off to St.Georges to pursue not only your MD degree, but also your "premed" degree. There's a wealth of information on valueMD, SDN, and even here on the topic and it would be worth your while to do your research rather than repeating the same questions here in this thread.

 

I'm sure the army of 'rah rah rah you can do anything!" camp on pm101 will give me flak for this (apparently a poster here thinks I could I ride competitively in the TdF if I tried hard enough!) but here's the deal: your supposed passion for medicine and conviction that espouse here are just empty words written on an internet forum. You have not told us anything from your past nor your academic history to back this up. Now you want to strike off to the Carribean, not for four years, but for seven years! Going to the islands is a high risk move for people with lower grades and MCATs who missed the boat stateside or in Canada and it's their last and only second chance. I have a friend there right now and just the MD program is way beyond your dramatic underestimation of $220,000. It seems you don't know how expensive living expenses and transportation are (a good guesstimate is $15,000/yr). And there's this little annoying thing called "interest". So anyways, bear with me as I give you a rough estimate of what you'd need for 7 years on the island: $250,000 tuition (which is probably an underestimate), $105,000 living (which is probably not enough).

 

$355,000 USD

 

Let's not forget the interest that you'll have to pay during all of your school and into residency. At 355,000, that's $1500/month or $18,000/year. Ask yourself honestly: would you place maybe half a million dollars on a 7 year bet on 'good intentions' and a highly uncertain future? I think I'd rather place it all on a roulette table. And even if someone did, you better hope you land a specialist position (even more unlikely from the Islands), because paying back half a mil in debt, at an older age than most doctors, is going to really really really suck.

 

You've also conveniently disregarded the two white elephants in the room: what if you fail out of the Caribbean (attrition is significant) or what if you finish seven years and you can't get a residency (happens often enough, and if you're gunning for some super specialty...). What happens to the debt? You'll have wasted another 7 years of your life, left your parents without a home if you made them sell it (ridiculous because I wouldn't accept it), and put yourself in a debt your education and experience would not allow you to pay back. Now you would've screwed royally not only yourself, but also your parents.

 

So what is the take home message? Please don't screw over yourself and possibly your parents. I know it's nice to read nice things on PM101 and be told anything is possible if you put your mind to it. I agree to an extent, but there are real life consequences here with other people's lives and wellbeing at stake. I know how attractive going to SGU seems, but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors. Many people have already offered great advice, ranging from going to college, working in a healthcare related field, going back to university (IN CANDADA), etc. Take that and run.

[StellarRay]

Honestly, right now my head hurts so much. I'm getting so angry at myself, so frustrated that I'm not DOING something. You'd think that this would be great, it's summer, no job to go to, no homework or books to be read... just relaxing. Absolutely free. So much free time that I'm pulling my hair out and enjoy making music with my head and the table.

 

I think I read somewhere that if you get the security option on the LOC then if anything happens to me then at least the co-signer (most likely one of my parents) wouldn't carry that burden. I guess being able to afford med school isn't such an issue. From what I'm reading, most people pay the monthly interest on the LOC with the LOC itself. On the plus side... by doing that I'd be building up a good credit score. ^^

 

I understand what you're saying Kenneth. The tuition value I got off the SGU website and I did say I didn't add in cost associated with living. Yeah... I know it's alot of money. My head is just whirling right now with what to do.

 

Wait the 3 yrs, go to college, do a new undergrad, and try again... seems like such a long route with no guarantee. And although St George is hardly a guarantee, at least I will have a very good chance of getting into their med school within 3 yrs if I'm able to achieve > 3.2 GPA.

 

I think I would want to work in the States afterwards too. The same job but for twice the pay. Btw, money is not my sole motivation to become a doctor but it is a factor of where you'd want to work and it's a reality to consider when it comes time to buy a house, buy a car, raise a family, pay back the loans... And to be honest, if I were ever able to make it, I would like to give back.

 

I just feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. To wait or to go. All this info I'm trying to gather does really hurt the noggin'. =\

[Rock*]

Ray, this suspension can't possibly apply to all the universities in Canada, can it? Why not move out of Ontario to one of the western provinces and restart your undergrad studies at U of M, U of S, UBC, U of C, or U of A? They all have medical faculties and less competition in getting into school and in some cases like Calgary or Edmonton, there's a booming job market with high salaries in case you don't make it into med or you change your mind. This will also get you away from all the negative influences that you've been festering in over the last couple of years in Toronto. This doesn't mean running away--you should still tell your parents and clear out the problems from your past, but moving to a new city can often give you a new feeling of purpose and a clean slate to rebuild on.

 

Also, it definitely sounds like you have some signs of clinical depression--you should go see a family doctor and they can refer you to a psychiatrist. It'll be covered under OHIP and you would be able to continue your therapy after exhausting your school's psychologist.

[mayantemple]

Wait the 3 yrs, go to college, do a new undergrad, and try again... seems like such a long route with no guarantee. And although St George is hardly a guarantee, at least I will have a very good chance of getting into their med school within 3 yrs if I'm able to achieve > 3.2 GPA.

 

Hmmm but think about this: with a new undergrad, you have a virtual guarantee of being able to do SOMETHING within Canada. If not med school, maybe clinical research or masters in science or masters in health science or health administration or maybe even an MBA (all assuming you do undergrad in science; if something else, that will open up different options). Same thing with doing a college program to become a paramedic, etc. All these routes can lead you to med school, or "worst case scenario" they can give you a satisfying, fulfilling life without having the M.D. after your name. If you want to help people, there are many ways (other than med school) of doing that. If you want to make reasonable amounts of money and have a steady, well-respected (mayyyybe not put on a pedestal, but being able to look others in the eye and yourself in the mirror), there are many ways (other than med school) of doing that. I'm not saying that you can't get into med school, I think that if you put your mind to it and get enough experience that you feel like you know what you're getting yourself into, you might do it. But it's by no means a guarantee; barely even a likelihood. If you go to St George's and put the effort, time, and money into it, taking into account all the different risks & things that can go wrong, especially given that (in my opinion) you need to gain some confidence in your ability to succeed and get a much better understanding of med school & the practice of medicine first ... I think if I was in your situation I wouldn't take the risk. Yes, it takes more time to do any of the things I'm advocating for. But slow down, you have a large mess to fix and the last thing you want to do is make a huge hasty decision. Like other posters have said, taking the time and trying something different may make it easier for you to see what path is best for you.

 

Disclaimer: All my opinions!