Is Med School even viable for me? What should I do..?

[StellarRay]

@Rock*:

Yeah, I definitely want to move out. In a magical, ideal world.. U of T would realise that alot of my stress originated at home and by allowing me to move out that I'd be rectifying alot of my problems. I'm not saying it was all because of family but it was a really big part. This is going to sound like the asian stereotype, but most asian kids can't show their parents a bad mark they got on an assignment without getting yelled at and nagged for a month. My parents are worse than that. Much worse. Now imagine if I showed them I screwed up THIS big. Yeah... definitely a little stress at home.

 

I'm pretty sure that the suspension extends nationwide to all reputable Canadian universities. I would just love to move out to a new place where no one knows my name. Kinda like the opposite of the bar at Cheers! No more fear of being exposed, no more embarassment of being left behind, no more need to hide anymore. To finally be able to seek help.

 

I'm not sure if OHIP covers therapy. From the 2 or 3 places I've called, it's about $60/session and that's working on a sliding scale already. I've got 6 free sessions with a life coach however! I'm going to start redeeming them this week I think. But I'm not too optimistic it's going to do much for me. I expect to go in and have them tell me that I need to "do do do" and make a to-do list and check off the things I get accomplished and bring it back with me the next time we meet or something. A life coach just doesn't seem like someone I could ask about med school options..

 

It's definitely a relief to find out that I could pay the monthly interest on the LOC with the LOC itself. I was so worried that if I did somehow get my parents onboard with this plan that they'd be burdened with the monthly interest as the co-signers. I guess I just need to send them my transcript (90's in Sciences) and do the SAT. Do banks approve LOCs for pre-med at St. George? It seems the banks are getting tighter about loaning money for schooling abroad and Ed-Invest has closed up shop leaving us Canadians with very little financial options besides banks and LOCs.

 

I'm leaning 80% right now with going off to St George. Still not completely sure. Still don't know if I'll get accepted based on my high school marks for their pre-med or even worse.. if my university GPA and suspension prevents me from going to university even if it's overseas...... >.<

 

But yeah, I think I'm going to apply for this Dec term just to see if I can get in so I know what my options are. I'll probably apply for college tomorrow as well just to reserve a seat there too. Which college program sounds better? Paramedicine or practical nursing (is that the same as nurse practioner?! =\)?

[A-Stark]

Re: OHIP - you need to visit your GP first to get a referral; then it will be covered.

 

Oh, and a nurse practitioner is an RN with advanced training, while licensed practical nurses are assistants with less training than RNs (for that you need a BScN).

[Guest begaster]

OHIP covers psychiatric services.

[ratatat]

Hey,

 

I just saw this on another thread. Apparently, if you're out of province, Saskatchewan will only look at your MCAT scores. http://www.medicine.usask.ca/admissions/admissions-information/copy_of_academic-requirements/

[StellarRay]

Hey,

 

I just saw this on another thread. Apparently, if you're out of province, Saskatchewan will only look at your MCAT scores. http://www.medicine.usask.ca/admissions/admissions-information/copy_of_academic-requirements/

 

No ****ing way...

[A-Stark]

What? They still look at your admission average - look at part B.

[StellarRay]

Yeah, I just go to that part too. =\

 

Oh well, thanks anyways. That would've been pretty darn sweet though! ^^

[BrookH]

The "OOP MCAT only" requirement applies to the prerequisites portion, in lieu of the science prereqs.

 

The admission average will still be looked at. For OOP, cutoff is extremely high.

[ratatat]

Oh crap, sorry I read it the wrong way. Sorry

[KennethToronto]

Oh crap, sorry I read it the wrong way. Sorry

 

Haha..USask has one of the most ridiculous GPA cut offs...hovering around 90 to 91%

[Rock*]

I would lean away from St. George's mainly because of the financial load you're going to be putting yourself in. It's a huge risk that can potentially cripple you down the road. Foreign schools aren't like Canadian ones in that once you're in, you're pretty much 100% likely to complete all of your training and start earning an income. That's why Canadian students have no probs with taking a $150k LOC. By going Carribean, you're paying 2-4x the money and more likely to flunk out and be left with nothing except half a million in loans and no way out. If you add the extra costs of doing a pre-med @ SGU, that's even more insane. I seriously wonder if you'll even be able to secure that much funding from any reputable source. At least find out if a smaller Canadian school is willing to take you before taking such a huge gamble. Smaller schools are often less strict than larger ones and if you can get in, you'll probably also get higher marks while still being as competitive as other applicants when it's med school app time. I would also suggest that you look at schools outside of Ontario and examine programs in the arts or social sciences if you're interested in those topics.

 

As for the psychiatrist issue, yes it's OHIP covered if your psychiatrist's appt is done through a referral from a family doc. Go for it. Some long term therapy may be able to help you work through your demons and failing that, there's always antidepressants :-). Good luck in your pursuits!

[register]

So the OP still hasn't told his parents about his undergrad disaster and he expects to get financial aid from them, and to pursue a premed program at St.G? Ridiculous!

 

If you are so frustrated about doing nothing right now, go explain everything to your parents. That will give you a lot to do in the meantime, and it will fix up things in the right direction. You have this fear that your parents will disown you, but by not speaking to them about this, you're already treating your parents as if they're not family.

 

I'm done feeding this troll.

[Dr. E77]

Hey folks,

 

For people who are in/will be in a caring profession such as medicine, some of you seem to have left it at the door when you replied to the OP. Most people were helpful and full of advice, however some were harsh, completely brutal to a point of being malicious and unbecoming of future physicians. Getting into medical school is hard enough without people bashing other pre-meds. Yes the OP's situation/attitudes/motivation might be in question and by no means should people sugar coat what he has to go through or need to do to attain his dream; or if it's even possible. However there is a way to deliver this message with professionalism and tact. Everyone looks for help once in awhile and we can't really know what the OP is going through until we are in the same situation. I think its a shame that some people can't give the OP the benefit of the doubt and show compassion to someone who is hurting and needs some advice. What would happen if a patient of your is going through a similar situation and went to you, as his/her doctor for advice? Would you tell him/her that they were a "troll" and send them away? Well obviously some of you just did. Sometimes I think we are so quick to judge other people and we don't take the time to really listen and emphatize with them. Isn't that what doctors ultimately strive for? Unless it has changed over the last hundred years, I'm pretty sure doctors are suppsed to help people regardless of their situation. Something to think about folks.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dr. E77

[register]

Hey folks,

 

What would happen if a patient of your is going through a similar situation and went to you, as his/her doctor for advice? Would you tell him/her that they were a "troll" and send them away?

 

There will be people who will come and seek drugs / narcotics, they would be the equivalent of a forum troll. Don't feed them!

 

And to the OP, if you're not a troll, I apologize, but it would be best to take some of the advice given here. Talk to your parents, wait a bit before returning to school, reconsider other careers, seek help, be realistic, don't set yourself up for financial risk. Unless you're willing to be open to change, it would be just wrong to fill you with false hope. Yes, you can still consider medicine, but don't have such a narrow view so that you only focus on what you would like to hear and do, and be deaf to the good advice given.

[Dr.Cave]

C'mon, I posted once before but deleted it because I thought it was a bit harsh, but I'm irritated by all the people who get irritated at others for telling it like it is. StellarRay may have some real mental health problems which he should get help for, but he has acted like a completely selfish child. He's lied to his family and friends for years, he's wasted $30000 of his parents money, he's shown a lack of empathy, a lack of integrity, and a total lack of judgement. He looks down on nurses, paramedics, family doctors. He seems like a total narcissist. If I was on an admissions committee I would screen him out as fast as possible. Gad, he still hasn't told his parents and he's speculating about getting them to sell their house.

 

StellarRay, the only way I can see you getting into medical school is if you can prove that you are really a good person. But realistically you need to come up with a plan B. Not everyone can get into medicine, so most applicants need a plan B. You are going to need to go well above and beyond the level expected of other applicants to make up for your past behaviour and academics. I'm actually living my plan B right now as a 36-year -old med student. Obviously, my Plan A didn't work out and I did have a plan C which I did for a year while i went through the application process.

 

1. Get professional help, see a psychiatrist not just a therapist

 

2. Once you get your mental health issues under control (if you even have any - If i had acted the way you had I would be depressed too) get a job (try Fort McMurray) and pay back your parents. Prove to them that you respect what they did for you (I paid my own way through school). You are going to have to be one of the working-class people you look down upon. Mayber you will learn that they are real people too. Apologize to everyone you've lied to.

 

3. Study hard, I mean HARD, and take the MCAT. If you can't get a good score perhaps you should consider that you may not have what it takes to get into med school. If you score high realize that you still might not make it in.

 

4. I highly recommend you do some serious international aid work for year to show that you can be selfless. Use this as a time to reflect on why you want to go to med school, why you acted the way you did in the past, and how you are going to answer those tough interview questions about the past.

 

5. Start a new Plan B career path that also fits your Plan A. Pay your own way through school - do a co-op program if you can get into one. Co-op made it possible for me to pay my own way through school. Maintain serious volunteer efforts and apply.

[Dr. E77]

There will be people who will come and seek drugs / narcotics, they would be the equivalent of a forum troll. Don't feed them!

 

 

I agree with you register wholeheartedly. I was presented with this situation when I was shadowing a doctor. This patient said a sob story about this and that but the doctor I was with without blatantly calling him out on it or ripping him apart, firmly said no and still said it in a way that the message got through to the "troll" without shattering his dignity. My point I was trying to make was that the message (regardless of what it is) can always be delivered in a tasteful manner and not in a condecending or malicious way. Perpahs the original poster may have deserved what he got but there are always better ways of communicating your point across.

 

Kind regards,

 

Dr. E77

[StellarRay]

Thanks everyone. I guess I'll go see a doctor in emerg or something. I'd rather not have my family doctor (which is shared with my parents) know.

 

@Rock*:

Right now.. I'm 90% sure I want to go to St George (especially thank you to a post from BrookH). I really feel scared about waiting 7-9 yrs for the suspension to pass (3 yrs) and 4-6 yrs to complete a new degree and possibly a masters before re-applying for med school and even then it's only possible to apply for Queen's, Western, and possibly Dalhousie as they only look at the last 2 best years.

 

Universities don't look at college marks, so if I were to spend 2 yrs working on a college diploma at the very most the academic committee might see how hard I've been working and reduce my suspension by a semester.

 

The plus side of waiting is obviously that I'll get an undergrad degree that's recognized unlike St George's pre-med program and even their MD program if I were to reach that far and fail to get a placement.

 

The prize if I managed to get into a Canadian residency is half that of their American counterparts in terms of salary.

 

And as it stands, I have to be at the top of my game and of my class regardless if I stay in Canada or if I go to the Carribeans given my history.

 

Big rewards for big risks. I think it was KennethToronto who said he'd rather throw it all down in a game of roulette. Roulette is a game of chance. No matter what you do, it's just a game of chance in the end. I'd like to think I'm the master of my own future and my life won't be just a game of roulette. ^^

 

I'm definitely scared. But given everything, right now I'm leaning 90% towards going to St George if I can get accepted for Pre-Med. ^^

[StellarRay]

Edit:

So the OP still hasn't told his parents about his undergrad disaster and he expects to get financial aid from them, and to pursue a premed program at St.G? Ridiculous!

 

If you are so frustrated about doing nothing right now, go explain everything to your parents. That will give you a lot to do in the meantime, and it will fix up things in the right direction. You have this fear that your parents will disown you, but by not speaking to them about this, you're already treating your parents as if they're not family.

 

I'm done feeding this troll.

 

Do you really for a second think that I want want to hide from my own family? The same family that I have to live with everyday for the past 23 yrs? Do you really think that?

 

Really, you make it sound so easy to just tell my parents with no plan of action of what happens next. That "will give you a lot to do in the meantime" indeed.

 

I've been wrestling with all these ideas and plans of what to do next. If I do plan A (wait it out, go to college, which means I should be applying now, which means I need to research what program I want to spend the next 2 yrs training for and possibly the next 10 yrs working, I need to figure out which campus is better because...) and if they accept it then will I be able to stay home (pick a closer college) or will they tell me to get the **** out (pick a college further from home, will need to rent).. but if what if they reject that.. then I would need a place to stay that same night. It won't be just some screaming and yelling and doors slamming... I know everyone says it, that their own parents are the strictest. But mine.. we should have a contest. Telling them to wait 9 yrs for me to get what most of my friends and my own relatives already have now... I can't imagine how much that would push my parents.

 

But if I go with plan B (apply to St George pre-med) then I'll need to prepare for the SAT (we didn't have to do an SAT in Ontario), send in my transcript and SAT scores, wait for an interview (hopefully), get this all done before Nov 15th so that I'll know if I get accepted or not. If I do, then I can tell my parents about my situation and how this is an option. Because right now, I don't even know if I'd get accepted to St George pre-med (I got 90's in all my sciences throughout high school, honours etc) but given my current university transcript was crap... and if I do get accepted I'd need to see if banks would even give me a LOC based on my transcript as well. So you can imagine if I even got as far as telling my dad that St George was an option and then we show up at RBC and they pull up my university transcript and turn me down there in the office... then I'm screwed again.

 

Perhaps I start practical nursing (is that the same as nurse practitioner?) or paramedicine in college this september while i wait. But that could be about $3000 wasted if I don't finish the diploma because I get accepted to St George or maybe my parents will make it impossible to go finish college.

 

My life is a joke. I get that. But to keep calling me a troll.. I'm sorry. But I'm getting really sick of it. If you had to ask me right now why I want to be a doctor, I'd have to say it's because I want to provide a better way to help people, desperate people,.. than some of you here.

 

C'mon, I posted once before but deleted it because I thought it was a bit harsh, but I'm irritated by all the people who get irritated at others for telling it like it is. StellarRay may have some real mental health problems which he should get help for, but he has acted like a completely selfish child. He's lied to his family and friends for years, he's wasted $30000 of his parents money, he's shown a lack of empathy, a lack of integrity, and a total lack of judgement. He looks down on nurses, paramedics, family doctors. He seems like a total narcissist. If I was on an admissions committee I would screen him out as fast as possible. Gad, he still hasn't told his parents and he's speculating about getting them to sell their house.

 

Initially I did come off misunderstood that I looked down on other professions. It's easy to misunderstand that. Being a doctor is afterall one of the most prestigious and sought after jobs that all mother-in-laws just love. But I understand that. That's how our society works. We can't just take any part and expect the machine to keep working. Everyone has their part to play. That's how our world is.

 

I've failed in every way possible up till now. I'm not asking to be judged though. I'm not asking for forgiveness or even understanding. I'm not asking for anyone here to believe that I can change. What I am asking for are my options. If you want to throw in actual numbers and stats or probabilities then please! By all means! Please! And alot of people have replied with a treasure trove full of knowledge and wisdom that I otherwise would not have found by myself or at the very least not this fast. It's hard to try to find someone out there on this planet of 6.7 billion people that's in a similar situation. It's hard. And I am desperate to go on to a forumboard to ask complete strangers over the internet for academic, career, and generally life advice. I'm desperate.

 

I just find it hard to swallow when people do tell me to take some time off, explore the world, work full-time for a bit... because all the meanwhile the clock just keeps ticking away. I'm trying to not rush into anything and keep a sane head on my shoulders but I can't help but feel that time is so precious.

 

I just wonder what chapter of my life this will be remembered as.

[Dr. E77]

Hey Stellar Ray,

 

After reading the previous posts in this thread, I would have to say that if it's in you to straighten out everything that has happened in your life, then nothing is impossible. Pay no head to people who bring you down, cut out the bad and take with you the good. I wish you luck!

 

Kind regards,

 

Dr. E77

[Dr.Cave]

Well for one thing, doing some international aid work would give you the much needed perspective that despite all your problems you are better off than 90% of the people on this planet. You need perspective because right now you are wallowing in self pity. You have a hard time telling you parents that you flunked, how about the person in africa that has a hard time finding food, the daughter that knows she will be subject to honor killing if her family finds out about her extramarital affair, or the son that is expected to kill his sister to protect his family honor, or the mother who is dying of TB and wonders who will care for her 7 children. You have no debt (though i think you are morally obligated to reimburse your parents). Yeah you lied to a bunch of people and acted like ajerk but its not like you are about to go to jail for 7 years for fraud (although I suppose your parents could press charges). You already won the lottery and were born (or raised) in the land of plenty - make the most of it. I'm in Costa Rica right now on elective and the Doctor I shadow is paid a salary of $12000/year - I made more than that working at a grocery store in highschool. How's that for the most prestigious profession in the world. He sees only 10-12 patients a day because people can't afford to pay the consultation fee. It is a bizarre contrast here between the gringo in their million dollar condos and the Tico's who can't afford a a full course of antibiotics.

[StellarRay]

Thank you, Dr. EE7. Cut out the bad and take the good.. that's the exact same advice I got recently from a real-life friend.

 

Dr. Cave, I know most of us here who even have access to the internet are better off than alot of people. But that's not stopping us from trying to achieve our potential is what I think I'm trying to get at. Everyone's got their problems and their own world they're trying not to shatter. I'm just the desperate one that's passing by yours and a few others on this forumboard. It's not like telling them about Africa or how most people make $1/day will make my parents forgive me any less. I know that.

 

So I called St George and I think it was a student or someone that picked up. For the pre-med programme it sounds like I'll need to submit not only my high school transcript and SAT scores.. but also my university transcript. It looks like my happy option to run away to the Carribean to chase my dream and heal my own heart is dashed once again.

 

I was worried about the university transcript earlier too when I was thinking of how to get a bank loan or line of credit because as Canadians we don't appear to have many options for financial aid for school abroad. I'm sure RBC or TD would most likely ask to see my transcript. I was just hoping, I guess, that if I got to the stage of asking for a line of credit that I would've already been accepted to St George with the acceptance letter in hand.

 

Sigh... I really have to stop getting so giddy when I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[mbene085]

I understand feeling that the clock is ticking, but you have to shake the 'common pre-med' mentality. You are not, and cannot, be on the fast track.

 

If you are as committed to helping others in desperate need as you're saying, I'm still serious when I say you should consider a career in paramedics or nursing. I understand the societal appeal of becoming a doctor that you mentioned - but look at the options people have given you. There's the "wait and take another undergrad degree" route, about which you've expressed concern regarding the length. Then there's the "really expensive and no-guarantees overseas" route, which is obviously very risky in many ways. And neither guarantees that you will end up in health care at the end of the road.

 

At the same time, I'll remind you again that med school is a step up in intensity from undergrad, which is in turn a step up in intensity from high school. Some people are built for med school - they can thrive on the stress, the sleep deprivation, the massive amounts of memorization. Some people are just as empathetic, enthusiastic, and driven as their peers, but don't do well under those conditions.

 

A paramedic program or nursing degree offers the following benefits: 1) A career in health care 2) A much shorter road to employment 3) Much higher likelihood of acceptance. I really do believe that this is a realistic option that you should consider.

[StellarRay]

I understand that you're just trying to watch my back, mbene085. And probably should be more realistic given my circumstance. But this really is something that I want to see till the end.

 

But like I said, I currently don't even know if St George is an option since it sounds like they want to see my university transcript on top of my high school transcript and SAT scores. And this is for pre-med at St. George which is sort of like the equivalent of a 3 yr undergrad (that's worthless outside of St George). So it's not exactly the "fast" track since I'd be essentially re-doing my undergrad there first before being "eligible" for their med school if I'm able to obtain a > 3.2 gpa and good recommendations by their board.

 

Like I said, I was hoping that the university transcript would only be an issue with the bank and getting a Line Of Credit (LOC) but hopefully with the hypotheotical acceptance letter then I'd have a decent shot. But now I'm not sure if it's even worth ordering my high school transcripts to send off to St. George. Maybe I should just save the $20 or whatever it is to process the transcript order.

 

Right now, I am willing to work so hard for this. Because I know now what it tastes to lose everything. To have nothing but the ticking of the clock.

 

Big sigh..

[mbene085]

I understand that you're just trying to watch my back, mbene085. And probably should be more realistic given my circumstance. But this really is something that I want to see till the end.

 

...Right now, I am willing to work so hard for this. Because I know now what it tastes to lose everything. To have nothing but the ticking of the clock.

 

Big sigh..

 

StellarRay,

 

I guess there's not too much more I can say. I understand the dream of becoming a doctor (I think everyone on this board does), and I understand being willing to work as hard as you can for it. I just hope you don't pin all your hopes on it (you're thinking ahead about LOCs at a time when you haven't started your new, necessary pre-med undergrad degree yet). I wish you luck, and I don't want to say the road to med school is impossible for you, because it's not. It's just very hard, long, and unlikely, realistically. I hope things turn out well for you - I just hope that med school isn't the only final destination that you'll consider as "turning out well".

[A-Stark]

So, StellarRay, why haven't you told your parents yet? You really cannot proceed any farther without getting *that* out of the way. LOCs and future academic plans can wait until after, since the situation is hardly going to improve with time.

 

For that matter, go hit the pavement and find a job - anything - so you can start repaying them. Retail, fast food, whatever.