Is Med School even viable for me? What should I do..?

[Sutler]

knowing premeds...they'd rat on you if they found out

[rmorelan]

This idea of not reporting has come up a couple of times lately in forums.

 

Surely they have an automatic way of verifying things - some central database of degrees etc.

 

Not to mention the big 4 year gap in your life's history etc.

 

... AND not to mention the entire honest factor

[stefanci]

This idea of not reporting has come up a couple of times lately in forums.

 

Surely they have an automatic way of verifying things - some central database of degrees etc.

 

Not to mention the big 4 year gap in your life's history etc.

 

... AND not to mention the entire honest factor

 

bullsh1t, they wouldnt have anything on nobody.

 

if they did that'd be invasion of my privacy and I'd sue according to tort law on breach of confidence. (which wouldnt work)...

 

let's just say they dont have anything; the big 4 year gap is none of their business, and its not as if you can make something up anyways like travelled around the world or something....

[Sutler]

someone's bitter

[A-Stark]

bullsh1t, they wouldnt have anything on nobody.

 

Unlikely - Ontario schools, for example, have common application services. At some point, info is going to be in a central database.

 

if they did that'd be invasion of my privacy and I'd sue according to tort law on breach of confidence. (which wouldnt work)...

 

Of course it wouldn't work, since medical schools require in their stated admissions policies that applicants disclose all academic records.

 

let's just say they dont have anything; the big 4 year gap is none of their business, and its not as if you can make something up anyways like travelled around the world or something....

 

Oh, yeah, right. Let's assume the hypothetical lying applicant gets to the interview stage. How will he/she respond to a question about what was going on during that 4 year gap?

 

So, you're right - you can't make up "travelling around the world" - but there's something nothing that can be done concerning an abysmal academic record. Why should there be?

 

No one is entitled to get into program X at uni Y - the sheer sense of entitlement on display with the suggestion that one lie in order to get in is utterly sickening, particularly as regards a profession in which ethics are of overwhelming importance.

[rmorelan]

They are asking about your criminal record - and requiring a police check - that sounds more invasive than verifying if you have a degree.

 

I thought, but could be wrong but aren't convocations at universities are public events. I am pretty sure I have seen a listing of graduates for a particular year just posted up. Not to mention the big class portraits with your name on them

 

Even if it was a matter of privacy, I certainly think a 4 year gap in your life's history is fair game to ask about in an interview. You wouldn't need to answer of course (your right) but they don't need to let you in either (their right)

 

You have to be pretty creative to come up with 4 years of missing life material where you wouldn't have any verifiers for any of it! Not that I wouldn't have minded travelling around the world for 4 years.

 

Still it would be nice to know that there is for sure some sort of database. Give me a bit of piece of mind as an applicant against this sort of stuff. Relying on honesty is not the best policy sometimes with the high pressure med school application process!

[A-Stark]

I suspect that not even George Costanza could manage that!

[polarb]

You have to be pretty creative to come up with 4 years of missing life material where you wouldn't have any verifiers for any of it Not that I wouldn't have minded travelling around the world for 4 years.

Then they'll ask to see all your visas!

Busted then! haha

[rmorelan]

hehehe,

 

Won't work for duel citizen people like me. I was in Ireland for 7 years working as a programmer right out of high school (yeah, dot com age - good times) before going to school here for med stuff.

 

They border people never stamped anything even though I traveled all over Europe.

 

I was annoyed! I wanted to have my passport stamped somewhere - you know cool things to look at years later. Trouble is with the EU now as a British citizen going from country to country is such a minor deal. Been to 15 countries and have no record of it Well except for the photos of course. Maybe I should bring them along to the interviews!

[pi cafe]

“Why do I want to be a doctor... I really don't know. There are so many reasons that I want to be a doctor, there are so many reasons why I shouldn't and possibly can't, and I've only got one life to give. Maybe my one life can affect 10,000. Maybe my one life will save another life. I don't know.”

 

 

Stellar, what kind of soap opera material is this?? You don’t have any compelling reasons to study medicine.

 

 

You want to know how to save someone’s life?

 

Give blood. As often as you can.

 

You don’t need to become a doctor to save people’s lives.

 

 

 

 

 

“When I volunteered and followed some doctors around in the hospital by my house, I saw something that I wanted for myself. I saw how patients and their families would welcome the doctor into their lives. I saw the feeling. I actually saw the fuzzy feeling that's cheesey and corny as heck... but wow. Some people would come into the hospital the first time because they were broken but their second visit back to the hospital wasn't because they needed more work done. They would be in perfect health. They only came back to say thank you. It's a really selfish reason for me to want to be important in other people's lives. I know that. There are other ways to be important to other people. I know that too. But what a thrill it would be to say that I saved your life man with my two hands!!”

 

 

This is brilliant writing – this sounds like something straight off tv, from the shows you mentioned on the first page.

 

You could go into screen writing. Write your own show. And since you want to interact with people, you could act. It seems like this thread has been an emotional outlet for you. You have been the center of attention for 27 pages, and you keep on loving it and writing pages and pages more.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I don’t feel I’ve wasted my time here, this has been highly entertaining and I hope to watch a movie written by you one day.

[StellarRay]

Yeah I agree with you. Perhaps I should've worded it differently. It seems that from the reasons he gave, nursing is a better fit for him than medicine. We definitely need more male nurses. Plus male nursing students are quite popular in nursing school b/c they're rare (according to a friend who just graduated from nursing school). The ladies would love you, bud.

 

Wow! That was the exact same reason my grade 10 music teacher kept bribing me with to try to get me to join her choir! It was like, even an ugly loner like you could surely land something in a 1:15 ratio! XD

 

But yeah... I'd very much like to avoid compounding more lies. It's poisoned my life to the point were I've become depressed and stressed out 24/7, lost the girl of my dreams, lost my dreams altogether. I mean, if they don't ask, I probably wouldn't say. Unless by not saying I present some kind of immediate danger to someone else I think my conscious will be okay. ^^

 

So, it looks like, besides stroke of luck that some carribean/off-shore school accepting me.. my best bet is to pursue medicine is either to get a 2 yr college diploma or take the 2 yrs and get college/Athabasca credits to transfer so that I'd start my new degree in university as a 3rd yr student.

 

Any other better ideas?

 

The thing with applying to pre-med at the carribean/off-shore schools is that if they ask to see university transcripts then they'll ask how and what have I done to redeem myself.

 

Thanks for all the support guys. And yeah, I'm no Mother Theresa to whoever mentioned it. Far from it. I'm quite disgusting inside.

 

Edit:

Wow, pi_cafe... since your "friend" told you about what a joke of a life my thread is, you've felt compelled enough to make a new account here just to attack me because... of what? Because there are people here that are nice enough to throw more than 5 minutes of their time to share their wisdom, thoughts, and lives with me? Yes, I would have just hated it if everyone on this forum just pretended that I didn't exist. They've got their own lives, their own worries and problems too so it wouldn't be too far-fetched. When you see a homeless guy on the street, you hardly ever see someone stop and sit down, back to the wall next to them and say, "Hey, it's alright. I know what you're going through because I've been there. Here's what I think you can do too."

 

You ask for my reason for wanting to be a doctor, a question which I think most people and even some doctors with many years of experience still don't know the full answer to, and then you tell me that my reasons aren't "compelling" enough for you. I'm just going to take the advice that was given and give up trying to explain myself to those who are just here to impart their mighty wit and sarcasm on their self-righteous witchhunt for "trolls". And believe it or not, I don't have a problem with people being mean, realistic, or sarcastic.. as long as they provide some kind of insight or help then I'm so thankful for their time.

 

Anyways, guys is my best bet for med school... college route -> 2 yr diploma or transfer credits -> new university degree -> med school? (About 3 pages back, I wrote like 7 plans... some umm.. yeah..)

[DrZeus]

another brilliant zinger by our junior member pi_cafe.

pi_cafe for president!!! o.O

[A-Stark]

So, it looks like, besides stroke of luck that some carribean/off-shore school accepting me.. my best bet is to pursue medicine is either to get a 2 yr college diploma or take the 2 yrs and get college/Athabasca credits to transfer so that I'd start my new degree in university as a 3rd yr student.

 

Any other better ideas?

 

Nope, I think that's the best way to go - it's financially much more sensible, and it may lead to other career paths which you're not considering right now. Oh, and tell your parents. And study hard.

 

Now, concerning the issue of "why do you want to be a doctor", I don't think anyone can claim more or less legitimacy to pursue medicine based on their stated motivations - i.e. you should be serious and thoughtful, but ultimately it comes down to how it's articulated. For someone in StellerRay's position, there will be plenty of time to think and work on that articulation - years in fact.

 

For my own essays, I can't say that I really went this route. My essays were probably a lot blander, too Cartesian in approach, and more idiosyncratic in what I didn't talk about. For example, I've done literally dozens of projects and assignments relevant to medicine and health care in general - but I wasn't about to mention how, for my survival analysis course, I analysed the survival patterns of primary biliary cirrhosis patients. It was just a term project, after all, and just one of many instances of medical data analysis I've undertaken as part of my education.

 

For whatever reason, I didn't mention how, for at least 3-4 years, I've actively sought out courses, research, and projects that relate to health/medicine, because at least in large part this has been part of my degree programs... yet thanks to my math/stats mindset, in which the origins of data matter only insofar as they affect the quality of that data, I don't always consider such assignments as relevant experience, even though I continually sought out ones applicable to my interests. In the end, though, I really should have played up that angle in my essays (and it wouldn't have hurt to mention that my dad, who's an MOH, has indirectly transferred his interests in public health to me... but for some reason I thought that parental influences sounded too... cliched somehow. But the truth, articulated well, cannot be cliched!).

 

So, we all have the same platitudinous reasons for being in this game - it's how we explain the specifics of those reasons, and why event X gave us some particular insight or feeling, that really matters. I'm not sure whether my (I think) excessively generic essays actually mattered, but being honest and at least a bit personal seems okay - I just felt it excessively invasive to have to bear my soul to a faceless admissions committee member, and so I didn't.

[Rock*]

Seriously guys, some of Stellar Ray's posts may have been incredibly naive or just clueless, but degenerating to personal attacks also says a lot about you. People can say that the OP doesn't belong in medicine but based on some of the posts here (especially the ones promoting more lying), I'm more afraid of some of the other posters here getting into med school.

 

To rail on a guy because he admits that money and prestige is a consideration for becoming a doctor is obviously hypocritical in a general sense because many med students end up choosing the best paying specialties with the least amount of hours once it's match time--that's why specialties like Optho, Derm and Radiology are so competitive. At least some of you reading this will change your minds about why you're so interested in medicine once you're accepted. There's no denying it because the stats prove it. I'm not saying that I'm a saint. As rewarding as medicine is, if you expect me to put in 60+ hour weeks and call for next to no financial compensation after working my ass off for so many years and racking up so much debt, I wouldn't be happy either. I enjoy helping people, but I'm also not a doormat for society to walk all over and take advantage of.

 

Still, I think this thread's lifespan is pretty much over. Ray got his options. Whether he'll get his act together and achieve is goals depends on his dedication. If he's driven by a delusional tv-drama based perception of medicine, he'll likely be detected by the adcoms and weeded out but if he does learn what it's truly like to work in this profession and still decides that it's for him, he may have a shot. There's nothing else to gain from pummeling him unless you're the type of person who enjoys this kind of thing, in which case I'd suggest that you consider another profession because I sure as hell am not referring my patients to you in the future if you make it in medicine.

[Dr.Cave]

Seriously guys, some of Stellar Ray's posts may have been incredibly naive or just clueless, but degenerating to personal attacks also says a lot about you.

 

You are a self-righteous, pompous, arrogant fool and you shame all asians with your mediocre ping pong skills

[Rock*]

You are a self-righteous, pompous, arrogant fool and you shame all asians with your mediocre ping pong skills

 

Kiss my ass Rob :-P

[StellarRay]

So wait, wait.. besides getting lucky and getting accepted to an off-shore pre-med which do you guys think is the better option?

 

A) 2 yr college diploma in paramedicine or practical nursing or other?? I'm not even sure what "practical" nursing is...

 

2 yr of college/Athabasca credits to be transferred into a new university undergraduate degree? (Btw, how badly do some med schools look down upon this? For Canadian med schools it would be Queen's, Western, or Dalhousie. How about the US med schools? Off-shore/Carribean schools? Do pre-reqs or transfer credits done outside of university usually kill an application?)

 

C) Other ideas??

 

Thanks for the support. ^^

[Dr.Cave]

I'm not sure if you could handle being a male nurse considering that prestige is a motivating factor for you, so I would suggest paramedic. you'll have to put up with fewer jokes about your masculinity a la Meet the Fokkers. Plus if you do ACLS and work your way up you can be one of the super macho paramedics who do emergency helicopter response like Albertas STARS program. That way chicks in bars will still think you are cool. You choose:

 

A) Hey baby, I'm a Stars helicopter paramedic, I save lives everyday.

 

Hey baby, I'm a male nurse I wipe geriatric asses everyday.

[unknown user 7]

Ah, both careers are pretty rewarding. I know a bunch of male nursing students that are very masculine, so the stereotypes have nothing on them. Don't let the stereotypes of a career get to you or prevent you from pursuing it. It all really comes down to what you like and not want any of us think is right or the best.

[StellarRay]

Oyyy...

 

Dr.Cave is misdirecting what I'm asking... >.>'

 

I wanted to know which would be a more optimal route for me to pursue med school.

 

To either try and save about 2 yrs worth of undergrad by doing credits in college/Athabasca and transferring them over to a new undergrad degree in university for when my suspension lets up (in 3 yrs). Then I would in theory only have my last 2 yrs of undergrad which if I kick enough ass I would be able to apply to at least Queen's, Western, and Dalhousie in Canada. I was also wondering how taking transfer credits from a college or Athabasca would affect my application in Canada, in the States, and in off-shore med schools. Is it even worse if I take med school pre-reqs in college?

 

or

 

To just get a 2 yrs college diploma in paramedicine or "practical" nursing or possibly try for something else altogether like business. From what I've read, med schools actually don't favour bio or medical disciplined undergrad degrees over anything else anyways.. so perhaps going the business route would show them something about myself? And just what the heck is "practical" nursing?? Because I know that most nursing programs are graduate studies and not 2 yr college diplomas... and then there's what Dr.Cave said about just taking 6 wks to complete a Emerg 1st Responder course in BC which could make me a paramedic in rural towns in like 1.5 months as opposed to 2 yrs in college....

 

I actually don't have too much of a problem with the stereotyping of nurses... but wiping geriatric ass as you put it doesn't seem like a very rewarding career. >_>

[A-Stark]

Practical nursing is the rung immediately below Registered Nursing (which you require an undergraduate degree for at this point). In any case, you'd be much better off pursuing health profession training as the experience would be invaluable to any med application down the road.

[BrookH]

Academic Probation

Academic warning to improve your cGPA after not meeting the required minimum cGPA to continue.

 

Academic Suspension

Barred from further studies for 1 year. Re-admission is permitted after suspension. Appeal is permitted.

 

Academic Debarment

You are barred from further studies for x number of years. In some Universities, 2 years must pass; while in some, 3 years. Appeal is permitted.

 

Permanent Debarment

You are barred permanently from further studies. No re-admission and no appeal to the University's Senate.

 

Universities do vary in the x number of years you can be suspended. There is also a suspension that is in effect only in that Faculty and/or degree program from which you were suspended.

 

Suggestions/Option:

A) Arrange an appointment with the UofT Dean/Associate Dean and discuss your options, appeals, etc. Can you appeal to the Senate to shorten from 3 to 2 (or even 1) years of suspension. Can you apply to other Faculties/Degree programs? Can you take courses as special student, ie. not as regular student. What else other options ? Go see the Dean and do this immediately before considering other options below.

If not A, find out immediately from other Universities if you can apply. Pick up the phone, call them and get the facts. While all universities do recognize officially the suspension and debarment issued by other universities, you can make an appeal to the university's admission that you will be attending anew. If you are successfully admitted, get the financial aspects sorted out (you can apply for OSAP online to expedite your application), and get all the help you need to arm yourself with effective academic study habits, study techniques, etc.

C) If not B, attend a College (and possibly work part-time):

---> C1) Nursing -- the advantage over paramedicine, is the number of courses/electives in nursing that may be counted. There are Universities that have articulated degrees (ie, College/University joint degrees). When you later transfer to University, the transferred credits can shorten the duration of completing your degree program, but you still have to attend on full time basis to satisfy most of ontario's medical schools' requirements. After you complete your College diploma in nursing, you can write the Nursing Board Exam. Nursing is 3-4 years. (your previous 11.5 credits taken over 5 years can be counted).

---> C2) Paramedicine -- the advantage over nursing, it is shorter program and you can work full time thereafter immediately. After your suspension period has elapsed, return to U, have a solid planning in place, and re-start a new degree program (preferrably not at UofT where you got your suspension from).

 

Somewhere in your post, you stated you were 22, and that your 11.5 credits were earned over five years. This means you were 1st year at the University of Toronto at age 17 !

 

While that's really cool to most teens to have been accepted at that early age to one of the country's prime institutions, it did show that you had both academic and maturity issues. Yes it was really cool, and yes it was really good that you got in to UofT at 17. But there are other factors to academic success, other than our smarts. The likelihood is higher to fail out at younger age (not because of the aptitude, but other issues such as lacking established effective study habits, maturity, discipline). Unfortunately, it didn't pan out for you. There are students who start University at same age, and they start medical school at 19.

 

When you go back to school, University or College, regardless which level, you know you need to be prepared. There are risks no matter how small or big. But there is no doubt, from 17 to 22, there were a lot of lessons learned along the way. Look back where you failed, and put a self-directed program in place. If some things don't change, it doesn't matter College or University, Paramedicine or Nursing. Success requires hardwork, discipline, and then the smarts. You'll need some support system. Family, friends, and school (nothing is preventing you to access some UofT's counselling and academic resources). Get your feet wet, reach out, and surround yourself with a support system that will help you succeed. Everyone needs one. My best wishes to you.

[Jamer]

I'm so impressed with the following in this thread:

 

a) That it's now 28 pages

Some of the essays that people have written in here

c) The OP's soap opera worthy writing.

 

Carry on.

[register]

I gave up trying to read any posts the OP wrote, or anything that's longer than a paragraph.

[unknown user 7]

I'm so impressed with the following in this thread:

 

a) That it's now 28 pages

Some of the essays that people have written in here

c) The OP's soap opera worthy writing.

 

Carry on.

 

 

Hahahaha. I agree.