polythenepam Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hey just wondering if any other med schools out there have legacy seat policies? Mine is currently discussing it, so I'm just wondering if we wouldn't be the only school with a similar policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastalslacker Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 By Legacy Seat, do you mean seats reserved for kids, grandkids etc of past medical school grads? If so, that's unbelievable. I can't believe that's even under discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justletmein Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hey just wondering if any other med schools out there have legacy seat policies? Mine is currently discussing it, so I'm just wondering if we wouldn't be the only school with a similar policy. I agree. That is complete BS. Don't even get me started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Agreed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennethToronto Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 It still occurs at several US schools. Realistically though, it's not necessary given how often medical students have family that are also physicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 True, though that didn't help me with UofT admissions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJack Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 http://despair.com/nepotism.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svp2k5 Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 The whole legacy discussion is ridiculous in my opinion. I believe that some american schools give applicants extra points for being a legacy, but there are no dedicated seats for these people. I think that the last thing Canadian schools need is this type of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcwxyz Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hey just wondering if any other med schools out there have legacy seat policies? Mine is currently discussing it, so I'm just wondering if we wouldn't be the only school with a similar policy. What school is this? It would make sense for alumni that have donated heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 How does it make sense? It's frankly hard enough to get in for many people without parents explicitly trying to buy spots for their kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcwxyz Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 How does it make sense? It's frankly hard enough to get in for many people without parents explicitly trying to buy spots for their kids. Well, it would provide an impetus for donation. My Hollywood understanding was that parents donating a few million for a building=legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymity Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Say it isn't so!! Which school btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_B Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 How does it make sense? It's frankly hard enough to get in for many people without parents explicitly trying to buy spots for their kids. Although I completely disagree with it, I think it is pretty obvious on how it makes sense. If these kids still had to make the same cutoffs, then they are competent, and it gives reason for people to give back generously to their alma mater's. I may not like the idea, as my dad is a miner and mom's a housewife (not that it matters now anyways), but if this produced the research dollars for the cure to cancer, or even simply a new CT scanner for Queen's and Kingston to use...well I can understand the reasoning. People keep complaining about fairness, but medical school admissions isn't fair to begin with. When ECs matter, you make it hard for a kid who works to get by. When "life experiences" matter, it is harder for the person how has never left their province (I swear, half of my class had been to Europe when I started here....I hadn't even been to Quebec). Some of my classmates had first rate private schools, while others had no choice but public. And so on. It doesn't end when you get to medical school either. Tis the way of the world. Who you know matters. Who your parents are matters. Sucks, but c'est la vie. I'd also add that if a school is actually going to make legacy seats, you'd better believe they would be reserved for some pretty hefty donors. People who helped make your undergrad possible, and people who are giving back to those who helped them out. Fair to others, no, but nice carrot for the university to dangle for the good of all?, definitely. The more I write this, the more I think 1 or 2 spots wouldn't be THAT bad.... but that could be because I am already in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMmd Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 i fail to see the legality of this, because med school is publicly funded. However, it may still be happening covertly all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meme me Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 People keep complaining about fairness, but medical school admissions isn't fair to begin with. So a little more unfairness shouldn't matter? When ECs matter, you make it hard for a kid who works to get by. When "life experiences" matter, it is harder for the person how has never left their province (I swear, half of my class had been to Europe when I started here....I hadn't even been to Quebec). Some of my classmates had first rate private schools, while others had no choice but public. I disagree with all of these arguments. If you really have an interest in an EC or a desire to be involved, whether you work or not, you're going to make it happen. Backpacking Europe isn't the only life experience medical schools consider... you don't have to leave your province, let alone your continent to experience something meaningful and horizon expanding. As for private schools, THEY DON'T CARE WHERE YOU WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL. Who your parents are matters. No it doesn't, at least officially it doesn't matter. You should understand this better than most considering your own personal success. Frankly, I'm quite shocked your not vehemently opposed to the prospect of legacy seats. The whole idea contributes to the this, "you're in the club," elitist attitude that plagues the medical field and makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcwxyz Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 I think that the problem in Canada is that people don't think big (with regards to our medical school system). We stick to egalitarian ideals that don't make use of the full potential that we have. See post above. Medical schools admission are already unfair. The fact that they look at non-subjective criteria means they may not take into account my specific strength. The overall excuse is that all their non-subjective criteria result in a better doctor, which may be true, but millions in funding from donations results in much more (and no one is saying legacies have to have none of the regular admissions requirements academically or non-academically). Think of it as unofficial reservations for aboriginals, maestros, olympic athletes, SWOMEN or within Ottawa or maritimes or BC or whatever, et cetera. By doing things like legacy seats where people may have an impetus to donate millions of dollars, or running unsubsidized tuition schools (with possible profit) for international students, et cetera we can be flush with cash and open up more non-legacy seats. Disclosure: My parents didn't go to a Canadian university aren't wealthy enough to donate to a University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meme me Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 I think the money aspect of it, the donation dollars it may attract is not a justifiable argument. Where's the prinicple? It's unethical to reserve seats for the prospect of dollars. Let's get real here... how many Canadian practising physicians are able to donate millions of dollars to anything in a lifetime... I think it's more about belonging to a league than anything else. "Legacy Seats"... the phrase alone is bothersome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benito Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 I'm afraid to burst your bubble but as long as the OP doesn't clearly state a school it's all smoke 'n mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodog Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 i also can't believe they have this...they already get enough preferential treatment. Interviewer: ahhh. i see you're name is Brown, do you happen to be related to the son of the orthopod named Brown. Student: Yes. Interviewer: checks off the box that says "automatic in" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Heh, my group's tutor for anatomy was an orthopod named Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 What!? My genes and money might not be enough to get my future flock of children guaranteed med spots! The travesty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_B Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 So a little more unfairness shouldn't matter? I never said that, I don't think it is right, I am simply arguing the other side. I disagree with all of these arguments. If you really have an interest in an EC or a desire to be involved, whether you work or not, you're going to make it happen. Backpacking Europe isn't the only life experience medical schools consider... you don't have to leave your province, let alone your continent to experience something meaningful and horizon expanding. As for private schools, THEY DON'T CARE WHERE YOU WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL. No, but if you got a first class education because your parents bought you one vs being stuck in a class with a lot of people who drag the class down (teachers can't teach at a high level if the students as a whole can't handle it). Even at this seemingly early stage, the dye is being cast. If you got to university already behind other classmates, it matters. My point is that having a "privileged life" makes things easier on those who want in. And I agree, you don't need to do "fancy" things to "expand your horizons". My comment there was because whether you do or not, my class seems flush with students who have had experiences that I never realistically considered, as they were beyond my means. Maybe you don't need them, but when I look at my class, it certainly seems like being from a well to do background must help. No it doesn't, at least officially it doesn't matter. You should understand this better than most considering your own personal success. Frankly, I'm quite shocked your not vehemently opposed to the prospect of legacy seats. The whole idea contributes to the this, "you're in the club," elitist attitude that plagues the medical field and makes me sick. I do not like it. But being an outsider on the inside, I do realize the difficulty in providing medical education and medical care in general. It is unfortunate that money rules the world, but to deny such a fact is naive. Knowing that this fact is true, I can live with 1 or 2 spots (1-2% here) of my class being reserved for people who's family have made everyones experience better. Is it ideal, no. But I am thinking about the society as a whole who would benefit from the donations, not the 1-2 people who don't get a spot when someone who is equally as able (this is with the assumption that they still have the met cutoffs). It isn't like the university would be doing this to pad their pockets. They want higher quality research, maybe more spots, etc. As I said, I don't like it, but I can understand why a university would consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Leaving aside the ethics issue, these would have to be extremely hefty donations for a med school to reserve legacy spots - how would they be funded? No government is going to approve such funding, so it would have to come from... donations, or rather donations-in-kind. Training 1-2 med students requires a lot of money - would students with such spots be eligible for scholarships or aid (I'd hope not)? It is frankly inappropriate for med schools to solicit donations with an explicit promise of nepotism to favour the offspring/relatives of donors - now it's another matter if donors wish to endow a scholarship for people from a certain county or province or demographic background - but their own family? How does that benefit the school? For that matter, the negative PR of such an arrangement might deter smaller/other donors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 I never said that, I don't think it is right, I am simply arguing the other side. No, but if you got a first class education because your parents bought you one vs being stuck in a class with a lot of people who drag the class down (teachers can't teach at a high level if the students as a whole can't handle it). Even at this seemingly early stage, the dye is being cast. If you got to university already behind other classmates, it matters. My point is that having a "privileged life" makes things easier on those who want in. And I agree, you don't need to do "fancy" things to "expand your horizons". My comment there was because whether you do or not, my class seems flush with students who have had experiences that I never realistically considered, as they were beyond my means. Maybe you don't need them, but when I look at my class, it certainly seems like being from a well to do background must help. I do not like it. But being an outsider on the inside, I do realize the difficulty in providing medical education and medical care in general. It is unfortunate that money rules the world, but to deny such a fact is naive. Knowing that this fact is true, I can live with 1 or 2 spots (1-2% here) of my class being reserved for people who's family have made everyones experience better. Is it ideal, no. But I am thinking about the society as a whole who would benefit from the donations, not the 1-2 people who don't get a spot when someone who is equally as able (this is with the assumption that they still have the met cutoffs). It isn't like the university would be doing this to pad their pockets. They want higher quality research, maybe more spots, etc. As I said, I don't like it, but I can understand why a university would consider it. Just a note, this is pretty much what happens for all those Canadians flying off to places like RCSI to study med. RCSI will run you in the $350,000 range... Sure they need to be accepted, but they are pretty darn close to paying their way. Not too many prospective med students can toss around that sort of cash... Did I mention the Irish kids attend for basicly nothing at RCSI? They can thank the ranks of Canadians and all those wealthy semi-royal Saudis and other middle eastern princes who fill their lecture halls... The same thing happens to a lesser degree in Australia. Queensland accepts 400 people! About 50% of these are internationals paying through the roof. Would universities consider selling out? You better believe it! Everyone has a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodog Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 "No, but I'm the son of the ARTHROPOD named Brown." Interviewer: checks off the box that says "automatic out" hahahhahaha....yes..that would certainly be grounds for checking that box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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