So how would this work? Msc.

[sparkles3288]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm in my last year of a Bsc (thank goodness) and will be starting my Msc in the fall. Ultimately my goal is to get into medical school, but im doing a Msc for a few reasons: my GPA is a bit on the low side for applications, I think a Msc will help that a bit, I enjoy science/research a lot and the research my lab does is mostly clinical which is a perk, etc.

 

ANYWAY, my question is: Most medical schools state that you must be done your defense/thesis before classes start. (Sept in most schools, July 30th in some like UofC). I want to apply in the second/final year of my Msc, but I guess you dont find out if you get in until May at the very earliest..which leaves virtually no time to write up a thesis before the start date, meaning you'd have to start before to finish.

 

I guess what im asking is if anyone has been in this situation? Do you do your Msc with the premise you WILL be done by Sept no matter what? (ie: You forgo the option of switiching to the PhD program in the same lab). Or has anyone frantically written up before Sept in just a few months?

 

I suppose the answer to this could be to do a sightly longer Msc, and then apply in the 3rd year, but I absolutely want to be done in 2 years at the max.

 

Any advice? Sorry for the convulated post. =(.

[Jochi1543]

Hmmm? When I worked in a lab, people were doing their defense in April and June, so I doubt that finishing your thesis before September would be difficult - unless, of course, there's some sort of last-minute disaster with your experiment.

 

It's possible to be done with most of your actual lab work in 1st year, as well, there were people like that in my lab - that left them an entire year to go through their data and write their thesis.

[sparkles3288]

Ok, thats good to hear. I have been doing my undergrad thesis + 2 summers in this lab, so I expect to have my lab experiements out of the way fairly early.

 

I wasn't aware the thesis could be done so quickly. Maybe it's just the people i'm surrounded by who seem to be always writing their thesis for a year +. haha.

 

Thanks for the help.

[always_panicked]

The key is to start writing from the get-go. Write your thesis little by little from the start so you don't end up in the position of being 2 months away from a possible defense date without anything written (though I know one person who wrote their entire thesis in 2 weeks....don't know how good it was, but they defended and passed!). Once you start you can automatically begin with your lit. review. Most people I know said it took about 4 months of hardcore writing to get it done, so don't stress!

[sparkles3288]

Thanks for the advice! Definitely makes sense because I can see how a lot of the background info could be done even before expierements are complete. Same with methods--just write as doing them.

 

Thanks again! =).

[Julie]

Hum... I think how long it takes you to finish a thesis really depends on many things, only one of which is how hard you work. Other very important ones : your program, your lab, your supervisor's view of things (do you need to achieve positive results for them to let you pass, or will he let you present something that didn't give such great results after all? - if it's the former, than how long it takes you depends on your results), whether someone will publish the same experiment just before you, forcing you to start over, the availability of your thesis commitee members, etc, etc,. It's a mistake to think you can for sure be done in 2 years if you just work enough, without considering these factors.

 

In my master's cohort, for instance, only 1 person finished in 2 years. I think 2 more finished during the 3rd year. Everyone else took longer. All who finished quickly worked hard, but not all who worked hard finished quickly. I do think, however, that this is probably above average in completion times. Our program included many things that an MSc probably wouldn't (such as an 8 month internship, and 7 courses), which made it difficult to finish quickly. Anyways, still, even amongst those I know who have done MSc, finishing in 2 years wasn't the norm.

 

I don't know, if I were you, I guess I would try to find out more about the above variables. How long does it usually take the people in your lab? Of those who took longer than 2 years, why was that so? Are these things you can for sure avoid? What's the average completion time of the MSc you applied to? This should help you to get a better idea of how long you can expect to be there. Then of course when you do, really, really work hard on your research from the start, to do all that's in your control to finish early. And unless really most people in your lab do finish within 2 years, I would try to at least prepare for the possibility that it takes you more than that. One more year may not be as bad as you think, you can still reach medicine after that. I guess you can judge, by the time applications come around in September, how far along you are in your research and whether or not you will be able to finish in time. Oh, and I'm sure that a conditional acceptance to medical school is about the best motivation you could ask for!

 

Best of luck!

[sparkles3288]

Julie: You brought up a lot of valid points that I had not completely considered.

 

Our lab is quite large and I have seen people finish in 2 years and others be at the end of 3 years and not be done. I think I can generalize by saying people who have finished in 2 years were those who worked hard. Those that are taking longer are simply rather lazy. My supervisor is not strict/hard-core at all and if I told him flat-out I want to be done in 2 years, then that's what he'll allow me to do. Also, in my case I have spent nearly 2 years as an undergrad in my lab with my Msc thesis likely carrying over that research, so a lot of the work will already be progressing/done when I start.

 

I am against a third year simply because I know in my case, I will not use the entire year. Likely it will be 2 years and a few months and I don't really want to waste almost a full year doing nothing. =/. Also, because by that time I will have spent over 4 years in the same lab, i'd like to move on and do something else (or so I would think).

 

You bring up a good point though about how hard work does not necessarily mean quicker completion. In my program, I have seen people finish anywhere from 18 months to 4 years for a Msc, so it's definitely possible for 2 years. I guess there's always an element of luck though, lol. .

[Julie]

I guess there's always an element of luck though, lol. .

 

Yes, exactly! I think if you really start to work early and make it a clear priority, you have a good chance of fininshing in time. I just felt I had to comment as I really saw myself in your post. When I started my masters, I was sure I would finish in 2 yrs or less no matter what. I was determined to make it work. In my mind there was no possibility that it would take me longer. I was really suprised to find out that much of that was not in my control. A thesis is not like an undergrad project. I was suprised by how much luck seemed to be involved, at least for me and those around me. Don't get me wrong though, you still have much of the control, only you have a bit less than in undergrad (/ than I feel I have had in med school so far). You're right in that knowing your supervisor and your field well in advance will definitely help a lot.

[switcheroo]

Just want to also point out that you can start writing your proposal in the summer, if you know for sure you've gotten in to the Master's program (which it sounds like you do). One person in my cohort proposed her Master's thesis in the first two weeks of grad school because she had worked with her advisor a lot throughout undergrad and they had outlined the project ahead of time. If you could do something like this, it might cut down on your worry about not getting done within your two-year timeframe.

[sparkles3288]

Julie: I completely understand what you mean. When I started my Bsc, I was completely convinced I was going to med right after I was done and never even entertained the idea of having to do grad school and such. it's good to be prepared for all evantualities.

 

switch: That's a great idea! I didn't even think about starting my proposal during the summer, but I think I just might. I have a very good idea of what my thesis will be, so might as well get a start on it. Thanks so much!

[medgoal]

: Most medical schools state that you must be done your defense/thesis before classes start. (Sept in most schools, July 30th in some like UofC).

 

 

CAN you apply after only one year? If you choose to forgo your masters for medical school? Or are you simply ineligible whilst in a program? I was looking at some 16 month programs; am I unable to apply for admission next cycle?

thanks

[switcheroo]

Depends on the school. Some (e.g., Manitoba) don't care one way or the other--you can drop out if you get into med school, if that's what you want to do, or finish your degree while also working on your MD. Others (e.g., ...well, lots of them) want you to be defended before you matriculate, usually with a deadline for thesis defense and final submission around June 30. So the short answer to your question is that it depends what schools in particular you're looking at.

[hkmedbound]

another option is to talk to your supervisor before hand and let them know you want pursue a MD. some are very understanding and will help you get done within a year if need be... otherwise the MSc really seems to help with applications (publications, conferences, and research/critical thinking skills!)

[DrKTBare]

Hey guys,

 

Okay so about a month into my 2 year masters I realized I wanted to go to medical school. I did not apply the first year of my Masters (reasons below). I applied to OMSAS at the end of my first year knowing that I would complete my degree in time to start. I had crazy experiments and knew I would be defending in August but I knew I could do it. HOWEVER, all the med schools that I applied to (especially U of T, Northern) wanted letters from my supervisor saying that i'd defend in June at the latest - and he simply could not provide them (heck my project ended in july and I had a month to write up....).

 

There's 2 reasons for this:

1. canadian med schools (from inside sources) have gotten a bad rap for poaching good grad students that have secure forms of funding (ie I had NSERC which would have been lost to the school if I left my masters mid way)

 

2. if you defend in June and fail (god forbid), you have 2 months to redefend and still pass in time to start med school. If you defend in July/August and fail - you will redefend AFTER the med school start date. In which case the medical school has given you a seat that they can't honour because you didnt fulfill your requirements. SO they'd rather wait until you're defended.

 

So my advice - if you are going to pursue a Master's stay on the ball and aim carefully. In your "scheduling" make sure you have extra time for experimental errors (ie if a block of my experiment crashed it meant a delay of a month). MAKE absolutely sure that you are set and ready and written and reviewed to defend in June and that your supervisor is ready to attest to the fact.

 

Also, be careful with your supervisor. If you are NOT planning on pursuing a PhD and you want to do medicine, make this clear from the beginning - it has a tendency of souring relationships which is problematic cuz you really need your supervisor to "highly" recommend you. (trust me, trust me, trust me).

 

hope that helps!