What undergraduate school did most people (and you) in med school go to?

[Helpmemedstudents]

I am planning on going to York even though I am accepted for UofT Life Sciences becaues I think I'll have a higher average there. (OR I MAY TRANSFER AFTER FIRST YEAR AT U OF T). Think i should?

 

I want to know if most people from your medical school went to a certain university? Did a lot go to York or more Uoft?

 

THE BIG QUESIION!:

 

Where did most people in your medical school go for their undergrad?

 

Sorry for all the questions acceptances have to be made really soon.

[TeaHatingBrit]

Go to undergrad somewhere that you will enjoy more.

 

Undergrad is the best time of your life - and its not all about grades. Its more important than that. You need to live your life, and enjoy it!

 

If you're determined - you'll do good anywhere.

[StringerBell]

Sorry to break it to you, but both york and uoft are bad schools to go to for your undergrad if you want a high gpa. Uoft is widely known for being a very difficult school to get a high gpa. And york is about to go on strike again in 2011, which would be your 3rd year, that alone will ruin your year and very likely lower your gpa. My advice would be to go to york and transfer out after your second year to a school like western or queen's.

[mrhumble]

Go to York.

[trymeover]

Go to undergrad somewhere that you will enjoy more.

 

Undergrad is the best time of your life - and its not all about grades. Its more important than that. You need to live your life, and enjoy it!

 

If you're determined - you'll do good anywhere.

 

I second this.

[A-Stark]

I second this.

 

However, to answer your question, statistics show that medical schools usually have more students from their own undergraduate program than other schools..

 

So, statistically speaking, universities that don't have their own medical schools will probably have a lower number of students going to medical school.

 

Statistically you should go to UT, but really it depends on where you want to go.

 

Talk about the misuses of statistics... Do you think that UofT's being the largest university in the country might have something to do with that? Similarly, there are far more Dal grads in my class because there are simply far more Dal students.

[DreamDoc]

I'm deciding between Queen's and UofT (mississauga) for life science. I'm leaning more towards Queen's, does anyone know about the difficultly of this program????

[tooty]

Go to undergrad somewhere that you will enjoy more.

 

Undergrad is the best time of your life - and its not all about grades. Its more important than that. You need to live your life, and enjoy it!

 

If you're determined - you'll do good anywhere.

 

I don't agree with this at all. If it's med school that's going to make you happy, you need to be prepared to sacrifice to earn the GPA and ECs necessary to get in.

 

The OP is right in that it's not all about grades, but it's A LOT about grades. Simply look at the admissions requirements of every single medical school in Canada to gauge how important grades are.

 

I had a pretty good time in undergrad but it was at the expense of higher grades that may have gotten me in sooner. You have plenty of time to enjoy life. It doesn't necessarily have to be at a time when high grades count the Most.

 

I would, however, advocate that if you can only earn good grades when you're in a program that you enjoy, then for sure enroll in that program. But don't go to undergrad to enjoy it for the sake of enjoying it.

[TeaHatingBrit]

I don't agree with this at all. If it's med school that's going to make you happy, you need to be prepared to sacrifice to earn the GPA and ECs necessary to get in.

 

The OP is right in that it's not all about grades, but it's A LOT about grades. Simply look at the admissions requirements of every single medical school in Canada to gauge how important grades are.

 

I had a pretty good time in undergrad but it was at the expense of higher grades that may have gotten me in sooner. You have plenty of time to enjoy life. It doesn't necessarily have to be at a time when high grades count the Most.

 

I would, however, advocate that if you can only earn good grades when you're in a program that you enjoy, then for sure enroll in that program. But don't go to undergrad to enjoy it for the sake of enjoying it.

 

The whole purpose of going to school; is not just to get good grades. If that were the case, I could've taken easier classes throughout undergrad. But instead; I took harder classes, because I found them more interesting. I'm so glad I did so - I was happier in what I was doing, and as a result I studied more, and enjoyed studying, positively affecting my GPA.

 

If you're going to school, or attempting to boost your GPA, JUST so you can get into med school, I don't think you deserve to be there. Being a doctor isn't simple, nor is it easy. Why would you want to shortcut to get there?

 

I had a blast in my undergrad; and I think every student should - you should enjoy the experience. What is the point of being bitter towards school? It's not like undergrad is easy anywhere - so you may as well enjoy it, regardless of where you are.

 

If you're not smart enough to get a good GPA in any school - do you really deserve to go to med school?

 

And if you are a deserving candidate, you'll have a fine GPA anywhere.

 

Undergrad was the best 4 years of my life, I loved it - and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Looking back, I'm glad I enjoyed it - cause after this, your real life starts. You'll never bee 18-21 again.

[tooty]

I'm going to treat your arguments about challenging yourself and enjoying yourself separately:

 

For challenging yourself, by your logic, you should have gone to UofT, or UWaterloo for engineering, or Harvard, or Columbia, etc. to "deserve" to be a doctor because those are arguably the toughest schools. Why is it that you're the one who sets the standard for the number of difficult courses needed to deservedly get in? What if someone else took one more difficult course than you? What about one less? It appears the way in which you measure the worthiness of an applicant is in how much they challenge themselves. I, however, feel that it's more about whether the applicant is dedicated to helping is patients to the best of his abilities. So what if (for example) Billy decided to go into an easier program to maximize his chances of getting into medical school ASAP? As long as he is determined to study well in med school to become a competent physician, I have no problem with him. He simply did not want to take any unnecessary risks. So Billy got in after graduating from Health Sci at Mac, where they hand out 12s like candy. He deserved to get in. Why? Because the medical school said so! If you disagree, take it up with them.

 

Now, about enjoying yourself, I agree that if enjoying a harder course will give you a better shot at getting a higher GPA than not enjoying an easier one, I would definitely say take the harder one. But to only look at enjoyment while disregarding how it will affect you in other areas, namely your GPA, is ridiculous and I hope I misunderstood your point.

 

The time and place to test and train yourself is not in undergrad but in medical school. Why should we try to make it easier on ourselves? Why the hell not? Every program is equal in the eyes of adcoms (except UC). Right now, we can safely say that many, if not all, successful applicants have the potential to be fine physicians and surgeons. If the standards by which applicants are measured are too low, then they will be adjusted accordingly.

 

I think our disagreement comes from how we treat the challenge of becoming a good physician.

 

I think your view is that in order to become a good physician, one must challenge himself to the fullest at all times and all costs. If he gets into med school, then he is the best that he can be because of all the tough obstacles he put in his way. And, if he doesn't make it, then he didn't deserve to get in.

 

Med school admissions to me is a game. Med schools set forth the rules and we have to play by them. They set these rules because they don't have the time and human resources necessary to quantify the worthiness of every applicant individually. So, they use cutoffs. If you chose to pick enjoyable courses because you think you'll earn the highest GPA in the most efficient manner, I'm all for it. But if you chose to pick tough courses just because YOU think it's necessary, you've done nothing but prove to yourself you can do something that you probably knew you could do in the first place. Understand that the extra time you took to earn good grades in advanced courses could have been spent on ECs had you took on general courses. Other applicants are getting ahead of you simply by strategically planning their courseload. You obviously feel that you're better than they are and that you'll make a better physician, right? Well, in that case, you'll be doing the public a disservice by giving them a better shot than you! Why not maximize your chances of getting in early and work hard on your training IN med school? You have 4 years to do it plus time in residency to perfect yourself.

 

I agree that applicants who have taken advanced courses should be rewarded and would make smarter physicians on average. But that's not how the game works. If, judging from my approach to premed, you feel that I won't be a good physician, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I hope my patients disagree though

[TeaHatingBrit]

I'm going to treat your arguments about challenging yourself and enjoying yourself separately:

 

For challenging yourself, by your logic, you should have gone to UofT, or UWaterloo for engineering, or Harvard, or Columbia, etc. to "deserve" to be a doctor because those are arguably the toughest schools. Why is it that you're the one who sets the standard for the number of difficult courses needed to deservedly get in? What if someone else took one more difficult course than you? What about one less? It appears the way in which you measure the worthiness of an applicant is in how much they challenge themselves. I, however, feel that it's more about whether the applicant is dedicated to helping is patients to the best of his abilities. So what if (for example) Billy decided to go into an easier program to maximize his chances of getting into medical school ASAP? As long as he is determined to study well in med school to become a competent physician, I have no problem with him. He simply did not want to take any unnecessary risks. So Billy got in after graduating from Health Sci at Mac, where they hand out 12s like candy. He deserved to get in. Why? Because the medical school said so! If you disagree, take it up with them.

 

Now, about enjoying yourself, I agree that if enjoying a harder course will give you a better shot at getting a higher GPA than not enjoying an easier one, I would definitely say take the harder one. But to only look at enjoyment while disregarding how it will affect you in other areas, namely your GPA, is ridiculous and I hope I misunderstood your point.

 

The time and place to test and train yourself is not in undergrad but in medical school. Why should we try to make it easier on ourselves? Why the hell not? Every program is equal in the eyes of adcoms (except UC). Right now, we can safely say that many, if not all, successful applicants have the potential to be fine physicians and surgeons. If the standards by which applicants are measured are too low, then they will be adjusted accordingly.

 

I think our disagreement comes from how we treat the challenge of becoming a good physician.

 

I think your view is that in order to become a good physician, one must challenge himself to the fullest at all times and all costs. If he gets into med school, then he is the best that he can be because of all the tough obstacles he put in his way. And, if he doesn't make it, then he didn't deserve to get in.

 

Med school admissions to me is a game. Med schools set forth the rules and we have to play by them. They set these rules because they don't have the time and human resources necessary to quantify the worthiness of every applicant individually. So, they use cutoffs. If you chose to pick enjoyable courses because you think you'll earn the highest GPA in the most efficient manner, I'm all for it. But if you chose to pick tough courses just because YOU think it's necessary, you've done nothing but prove to yourself you can do something that you probably knew you could do in the first place. Understand that the extra time you took to earn good grades in advanced courses could have been spent on ECs had you took on general courses. Other applicants are getting ahead of you simply by strategically planning their courseload. You obviously feel that you're better than they are and that you'll make a better physician, right? Well, in that case, you'll be doing the public a disservice by giving them a better shot than you! Why not maximize your chances of getting in early and work hard on your training IN med school? You have 4 years to do it plus time in residency to perfect yourself.

 

I agree that applicants who have taken advanced courses should be rewarded and would make smarter physicians on average. But that's not how the game works. If, judging from my approach to premed, you feel that I won't be a good physician, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I hope my patients disagree though

 

Ok, I should clarify. By taking the 'harder' route, I simply mean - you shouldn't cut corners because it will improve your GPA.

 

Prime example, the University of Calgary offers two physiology based classes: Zoo 361/363 and Zoo 461/463. Most kids interested in medicine take 461/463 - as it is the most relevant course to a biology degree (which, most pre-med students are in). However, a select few students will take zoo 361/363 because they had heard it was easier. In my eyes - that is an example of a student who is only in school to get good grades, they don't care about their classes, or what they're learning.

 

They are up there with the students that will drop a class if they know they won't get an A. There are students that will do a 5-6 year degree, with a high number of dropped classes. These are the students I'm referring to - taking the 'easy way' out.

 

I stand by the idea; that academics are a huge part of getting into medicine, and being a good physician as well. If you're unable to handle it/cope before medicine - the amount of material that will come at you after would be overwhelming.

 

When I finished my undergrad this year; I was happy with the work I did - I looked at myself in the mirror, and realized I challenged myself, but most importantly, I had fun - doing something, and learning something that I enjoyed .

 

Undergrad is hard, why not enjoy it? I could've probably gone to another school other than Calgary, away from distractions, etc. and maybe inched my GPA up by 0.05. But, I don't think it would've been worth it.

 

The undergrad experience was unbelievable. And I'm glad that I personally, got to enjoy it to the fullest.

 

If I didn't get into med school, I'm sure I would've found another way in - but would I have had changed my undergrad experience? Not a chance.

[Julie]

I have to agree more with TeaHatingBrit. I don't think you should take harder courses or a harder degree just because it "means you really deserve it" or because it "proves you can do it", but I do think the joy is in the journey, and I don't really believe in making your whole life revolve around getting into medicine. Firstly, I'm not actually sure it really increases your chances, and secondly, what if you don't get in? (or, maybe less likely but still, what if you do get in but don't like it?) What then? If everything you did, you did for your planned med school years, then you may feel like you just waisted all that time.

 

Maybe I'm biased because I did my whole undergrad and grad studies without thinking I would apply to medical school, and then realized that's what I wanted, so my application definitely wasn't specifically crafted to fit what I though adcoms were looking for. However, I do feel that being genuine and doing your own thing will help in the long run, and if they ask "Why York and not UofT?" at your med school application and what you're thinking secretly is "because it's easier and I could get better grades", I'm not sure it would help. Centering your whole life around getting into medicine might feel to the adcoms the same as centering your whole life around your partner would feel to him/her. It's just less interesting and doesn't seem too healthy.

 

Anyways, maybe that's besides the point, I'm not saying the OP should necessarily disregard the grades thing, I just don't think it should be a very big factor. Having a good time and enjoying what you learn is more important.

[MSmith19]

Sacrificing an entire four years of your youth for something that you may not get into is a pretty heavy risk. Also, most people do better in situations where they are stimulated and satisfied. The courses that I did the best in this year, were the courses that were the hardest, and required to most out-of-class effort.

 

Bottom line for me is that there's more to life than just getting into med school.

 

What use is an MD and a bunch of money? If you go to a school just to get to med school, then you aren't there for the right reasons. What's the point in going through the motions, just to find yourself stuck in a job until you retire. Live life and embrace all of it- don't just do things for a means to an end.

[LostLamb]

If I could do it all over again, I would go to a small, primarily undergraduate university. UT and York are neither, but that's beside the point of what I want to say next.

 

I went to a top Canadian school, lured by scholarships, location, meeting and studying with like-minded individuals (academically inclined, competitive--in the good way where you want to rise to the abilities of those around you, etc).

 

It was good in some ways and not so good in others. For maximizing GPA, it was a huge mistake. For making good connections with professors, it was not ideal but not a failure. For life experience, it was good but I think I would have been more comfortable living in a smaller city, having smaller classes, and experiencing life at a slower pace.

 

You know yourself best. One can excel everywhere but let's face it, it takes luck and determination to succeed in the 'med school game'. I am fighting the uphill battle now, but would not wish it on others.

 

Best of luck!

[tooty]

I guess I have an all-or-none attitude. If you want medicine, you should do everything you can to get it. It's only 4 years and if you use it right, you'll get in. If you don't need to enjoy courses to do well, then enjoyment should be secondary. You have decades of your life to enjoy later on, why focus on undergrad, a time that is so crucial? The sacrifices you make in undergrad may very well get you into medicine, a career that can really make you happy! You feel me?

 

If, however, you need to enjoy courses to do well in them, then, by all means, take those courses.

[TeaHatingBrit]

Sacrificing an entire four years of your youth for something that you may not get into is a pretty heavy risk. Also, most people do better in situations where they are stimulated and satisfied. The courses that I did the best in this year, were the courses that were the hardest, and required to most out-of-class effort.

 

Bottom line for me is that there's more to life than just getting into med school.

 

What use is an MD and a bunch of money? If you go to a school just to get to med school, then you aren't there for the right reasons. What's the point in going through the motions, just to find yourself stuck in a job until you retire. Live life and embrace all of it- don't just do things for a means to an end.

 

Exactly. Well said.

[Helpmemedstudents]

So guyss do ya think I should go to york for four years, or go to uoft first year and then transfer??

 

Will med schools look at the transfer as bad?

[tooty]

Sacrificing an entire four years of your youth for something that you may not get into is a pretty heavy risk. Also, most people do better in situations where they are stimulated and satisfied. The courses that I did the best in this year, were the courses that were the hardest, and required to most out-of-class effort.

 

Bottom line for me is that there's more to life than just getting into med school.

 

What use is an MD and a bunch of money? If you go to a school just to get to med school, then you aren't there for the right reasons. What's the point in going through the motions, just to find yourself stuck in a job until you retire. Live life and embrace all of it- don't just do things for a means to an end.

 

Yes that's fine. But not everyone can have their cake and eat it too. Everything worthwhile I life requires sacrifice.

 

I don't really understand this obsession with enjoying undergrad when there's plenty of opportunity to do other things during AND after med school.

 

>If you go to a school just to get to med school, then you aren't there for the right reasons.

no one goes to undergrad to go to med school. they go to undergrad to get into med school to be physicians, a job that they believe they will be happy with. and i say there's nothing wrong with going to undergrad "just" to be a physician later on. why go to undergrad in the first place? sure, enjoy life along the way in whatever way you want and can, but don't lose sight of medicine as the goal.

 

>Live life and embrace all of it- don't just do things for a means to an end.

on the flip side, you can't go through life with a happy-go-lucky attitude and expect to be successful in everything you attempt. sometimes you need to exercise discipline and get sh!t done.

 

i advocate a mixture of both attitudes.

[Julie]

I don't really understand this obsession with enjoying undergrad when there's plenty of opportunity to do other things during AND after med school.

 

Yes, unless, from least likely to most likely : 1) you die tomorrow, 2) you don't get in, or 3) you keep that same attitude during med school in order to get your first choice of residency, and then later on to get a promotion, and then another, and... then your life went by and you didn't enjoy it.

 

The pressure to succeed is by no means guaranteed to decrease once you get into med school, or anytime after that actually, and the reward you get for delaying gratification will not necessarily seem less interesting. Just in case any of the 3 happen, I think it's important to enjoy the journey. That doesn't mean you don't work hard and sometimes (often?) pass on something fun to study, but it does mean that, as a whole, you're better off enjoying your undergrad than centering your whole life on getting into med school, IMO.

[MSmith19]

I understand what you are saying tooty because I felt like that for a long time until I realized that I could die any day. Would I really be satisfied with my obsessive and selfish choice to abandon happiness and enjoyment of life to achieve some materialistic job? While medicine is great, and can help a ton of people, just having the opportunity is something unto its own. Personally, I try to enjoy every moment of every day that I live..and I understand for some people that enjoyment comes as part of the process of achieving what is desired. As long as that's the case, and you are not dissatisfied with your life's direction (which could end up being the case for a highschool student hellbent on attending med school) then you will find enjoyment in making it there.

[TeaHatingBrit]

So guyss do ya think I should go to york for four years, or go to uoft first year and then transfer??

 

Will med schools look at the transfer as bad?

Ha. I guess we didn't really answer your question.

 

In the end, its a decision that you have to make. Personally I'd go wherever you think you'll enjoy your life more. Undergrad, 4 years, is a long time - and you don't want to spend it in some dump that you'll be miserable in.

 

If you're smart, U of T/York, it won't matter, you'll do well in either. So pick the environment that you think will be the most positive for you and go for it.

[trymeover]

Talk about the misuses of statistics... Do you think that UofT's being the largest university in the country might have something to do with that? Similarly, there are far more Dal grads in my class because there are simply far more Dal students.

 

____________________

[skvangs]

Gimme a break.. I spoke to the associate dean of Schulich Meds and he clearly told me that medical schools will prefer kids from their own undergrad program and that it's 'no coincidence' that every medical school always has a higher portion of their own undergrad students than other universities..

 

Now you can explain this through 'UT having the most students' or the whole 'undergrads will apply to their own medical school more than others' explanations, but I think I'll just go with the dean's explanation of why this happens rather than any others.

 

you telling me, that you spoke to Tom Scott and he told you that? That is complete BS. The medical school itself does not favour particular schools. What may happen is the interviewer may subconsciously or consciously do so.

[lostintime]

The politically correct way of saying it is that the undergrads of a school are probably a better 'inherent fit' for their med school.

[lostintime]

And it's not a black and white situation here. Going to an 'easier' school/program is not mutually exclusive with happiness and enjoying yourself. It almost seems like some of you are suggesting that you must go to a 'difficult' program and being 'challenged' is the only way in which you can be happy and enjoy undergrad.

 

Maybe if someone picked a school that wasn't aerodynamcis space aerocraft (something insane like that) and perhaps challenged them a bit less than the above program/something of the likes, they'll have more time to devote to extracurriculars and things they find fun and enriching than constantly studying 24/7 to just get a mediocre 70 because most of the kids in their program had like 4.0's in first year or 95% + in high school.

 

I agree about balance...you are not guaranteed 'happiness' either the 'hard' or 'easy' way. You know yourself best and pick what is the most right for you.

 

If you're someone who lives on pride and will get 'embarassed' and 'shameful' by going to a supposedly easier school, then don't do it and be miserable everytime family/friends ask you where you go for school. If you don't care what other people say, then do whateve you want. You should know what you want.