Advice Needed

[Guest Lost]

Hello for those reading...

 

I am a 1st year life sci student in UofT Scar and taking chem, bio, psych, soc and calc (MATA29Y3 the life sci calc)

 

I am doing rather poorly in calc and half the year is done already. I have the choice of trying to finish with an above 60% or to drop it and just take my 4 courses. If I drop it now, I can still add in another 0.5 course to make my courseload 4.5 for this year.

 

I'm wondering how much it would hurt Med or Dental school applications in future if I have a less than full courseload (I am not currently working). Is it better to have a full 5 credits and a lower GPA or 4 or 4.5 with a higher GPA? Somewhere else in this forum mentioned that UofT only looked at 1st year less if you took a FULL courseload...

 

Is calc needed anyways for anything? Is it even on the MCAT? Why do all life sci students take calc? I don't think most major programs at UofT need it and Canadian med schools don't require it correct? I'm not so sure about US though...

 

ANY answers will be helpful...especially from those that have been in such a situation before. Thanks in advance!

[Guest Ian Wong]

If all your other marks are stellar, and this one course is massively (I assume you're running sub-60% on it) dragging down your marks, then dropping it might not be a bad idea. Of course, if I were in your situation back in first year, to be honest, I doubt I'd have the conviction to do exactly that. Keeping up your GPA is extremely important, and if you think you can do much better on it the next time, should you decide to retake it, then more power to you.

 

Calc might be a pre-req for your degree, or perhaps a pre-req for a course for your degree. It's not tested on the MCAT, but learning some calc principles can help with Physics (although you can do first year and MCAT physics just fine without it). I'd be interested in what the other moderators think.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest JSS02]

Yes, a calculus credit is required for most life science programs, even though you may not actually use it very much. It's not a course requirement for meds or dents, nor does it show up on the MCAT. As for the affects on your GPA, it's true that U of T only weights first year for less if you maintain a full course load EVERY year. But if you finish with say, a 60, that could affect your GPA quite a lot. I guess it depends on how your other marks are... if all your other marks are likely to be high (i.e. the 60 really screws up the GPA), then it's probably not worth keeping the course. You should drop and re-take in the summer. But if dropping the course doesn't affect your GPA much anyway, then maybe maintaining a full course load and having first year count for less could be to your benefit.

[Guest my opinion]

If your worried about dropping it with the result of not having a full course load, you can always take 2 more half credits in this second term to make uo for it.

If you're doing well in your other classes and think you can handle 6 classes, drop calc.

[Guest my opinion]

do calculus in the summer if you can.

[Guest Lost]

thanks for all the answer guys (and gals)

 

So I take it that if I DON'T have a full course load UofT will count 1st year the same as other years??? So that means if first year is going to be my weakest year i might as well NOT DROP calc and fulfill the 5 credit obligation?

 

What about other unis? My high school calc teacher (isn't this ironic ) once told the class a story of how he only took 4 courses first year and when he tried to apply to med school and dentistry at UofT, they actually asked him in his interview WHY he didn't have a full course load. Is this believable or is he just pulling alot of legs?

 

I'm doing well in soc and psych, not so well in bio (but that can easily be changed) and really crappy in chem and calc. So if I drop calc I still have a bad mark in chem for the first semester and a not too good bio mark that might change for the better once I put in more effort this term.

 

So is this what it comes down to: stay with 5 if my marks in others aren't REALLY high so that this year is counted less

 

or

 

drop calc to bring up my GPA and have this year counted equally

 

Any more opinions? If I drop it I'm going to try to add a half course to bring it up to 4.5 Is there much difference between a 4 and 4.5? That means I'll be doing 5 subjects this term still.

 

Lastly, if I tke summer school will that make up for the 4 course load or is summer viewed totally different? elsewhere in this forum it was mentioned that Uoft didn't even look at summer school GPAs. In that case, wouldn't everybody take Physics, Organic Chem in summer instead?

 

Once again, thanks so much to all those who helped and who will help

[Guest JSS02]

If you have 4.5, U of T will still count first year equally. You need 5 full credits for them to count your worst year for less. I would consider what the other person suggested, and pick up 2 half courses (find something that looks interesting to you, and what you hear isn't too much work). It depends on how much dropping the calculus course brings up your GPA...

[Guest Lost]

when people say they count 1st year equally, does that mean they use some sort of formula? do they say, count only half or something? or is it a more subjective practice where the committee looks it over quickly?

 

what about other universities? I'm assuming you more senior students out there are also familiar with med school practices other than UofT

 

if I keep calc i will fail almost for sure so then not only will it show up on my record but only 4 courses will be counted too correct? or will they still see it as 5?

 

i don't think i can follow that suggestion of adding 2 half courses b/c i can't even add 1 right now...schedule conflicts and most of the good half courses such as intro courses in poly sci or philo aren't offered this semester

[Guest Lost]

"students who have completed three years of a university program:

 

best two years' converted average each x 1 plus

worst remaining year x .5

/2.5 = Academic score

 

students who have completed four years of a university program:

 

worst year eliminated

best two years' converted average each x 1 plus

remaining year x .5

/2.5 = Academic score

 

Less than full course load

 

Students who have taken less than five full courses (or 10 half courses) in any given year will be considered on the average of all courses taken during the regular academic session. The weighting formula will not be applied.

 

Applicants who wish special consideration for weighting due to unusual circumstances should submit their request in writing supported by the reasons. Summer courses are considered as supplemental work and are not counted in the applicant's Grade Point Average. However, courses taken during the summer are counted, if successfully completed, in the total number of credits."

 

 

So this means that if I'm doing a 4 year honours program my first year won't even be counted if it's my worst (assuming I stay with 5 credits)? But then if I drop calc and keep 4 courses, even if I do a 4 year program, my worst year WILL NOT BE ELIMINATED?!?! If that's the case then I should stick with it even if I FAIL correct? Or are these terms only applicable if I pass ALL my courses? Help!!!

[Guest Ian Wong]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> if I keep calc i will fail almost for sure so then not only will it show up on my record but only 4 courses will be counted too correct? or will they still see it as 5?

<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

If you are that certain that you will fail, you should almost certainly drop the course. Even if U of T looks at your first year with less weight, an F is a really bad thing to have on your transcript. Just my opinion.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest Akane200]

If you FAIL calculus, it will not be counted as a "completed" course at all. You will still only have 4 courses in first year. What they count are the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> completed<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> courses, not just how many you take.

 

In addition, you will get a 0.0 gpa score for the course, and that will plummet your cgpa such that you may not qualify for certain programs as well. It looks horrible on your transcript too.

 

Don't be stupid, if you're failing a course, drop it. Don't stick to it and fail or get a dismal mark just because on one med school's entrance requirements.

 

It may be true that in the interview they may ask you to justify why you only have 4 courses; however, I think that's a legitimate question to be answered.

 

Besides, having only 4.5 courses in one year is not a bad thing. They just won't apply the special weighting formula on your application. They just total up everything and divide by the number of courses. And really, if you apply to U of T during third year, it doesn't make too much difference at all (or may even be to your advantage since U of T does not count the marks recieved in summer course at all).

 

So, just do a little thinking and get yourself through first year first (like complete a minimum of 4 courses to get enrolled in some program). If you do badly, you may not even GET an interview to explain things.

[Guest JSS02]

As others have mentioned, if you fail the course then you don't get credit for it, and hence you won't be considered to have a full course load. If there really is a reasonable chance of failing the course, then you should drop it at once without hesitation. If you can handle picking up two new half courses this term, then you can still be considered a full time student. The weighting formula where they drop your worst year is for people who apply AFTER finishing fourth year, not during. For people that apply in fourth year, they count your worst year for half as much (i.e. 20%) and the other two years for 40% each.

[Guest Hopeful]

Hi,

 

I'm also a first yr student at UfT (@ St. George) and it seems that I'm some what in the same boat as Lost . Also, we seem to share a similar course selection (excluding psy- which for me is physics.) I was considering dropping to drop the chem course earlier in the first term too, but in the end remain in the class. The marks are not in yet, so I can't tell if it was a right or wrong decision. but hopefully it was good . Any ways, I'm also taking the Cal course at UfT (at St. George, this is MAT135 - for life science as well) and my current average is around the sixties too. Nevertheless, I think it should not be hard to pull up your mark in this course. My current cal prof told us that the key in this course is to try and get all the marks for the simpler questions because in general they make up about 80% of the mark. I've just had my second midterm and it went fairly well compared to the first one. The main aspect of cal is differentiation, so if you know how to do that the rest is really manipulation. If you truly are lost in the course then there is also a "Reprise" program that exist (at least it does at St.George) where you can retake the course starting in Feb to acquire a similar credit - this might be a good solution to your problem regarding a full course load. But if you do decide to remain in the course than just remember that it's only been half of the year, there is still another half and this part can still make a big difference. Many of the courses, including Cal has finals in April, here about 30-40% of your final mark is determine. Hence, there is still HOPE.

 

Now as to why life science students all take calculus when it is not necessarily a requirement. Personally, I took it because many of the courses in science involved changes of certain factors over time (ie.rates) It probably rings a bell if you heard such thing as half life, population growth rate etc. Many of these understanding will likely become important as you continue your career in the medical field and other field such as economics as well. Regardless of what field you enter math is important, but if you consider the other two areas of math that exist: finite and algebra n geometry, I'm sure you probably see why calculus is a course that is fairly popular among science students.

 

Regarding the suggestions about dropping cal and picking up two half courses to fulfill your course load - I think that is a good idea, if you had a light load. However, considering the courses you are taking now (neglecting cal), I think it's not worth it to work equally as hard for a course where you can only get half a credit. More over, you will probably have to spread yourself thin in order to complete all six courses sufficiently - some courses may be easy, but everything requires time and if your load is anything like ours here (ie. with labs, lectures, tutorials, assignments due every other second day) you probably get my point. I hopes this help and all the best