getting back into canada

[honeydue2000]

Hey, if you do your medical education in the US, do you count as an international medical graduate (IMG) when trying to come back into canada to practice and therefore have to take all sorts of tests etc, or can you just come straight back into canada to practice with no additional testing or anything.

 

if anyone knows or knows any links to look at, I would really appreciate it =D

 

thanks,

Tara

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[c17h]

Hey, if you do your medical education in the US, do you count as an international medical graduate (IMG) when trying to come back into canada to practice and therefore have to take all sorts of tests etc, or can you just come straight back into canada to practice with no additional testing or anything.

 

if anyone knows or knows any links to look at, I would really appreciate it =D

 

thanks,

Tara

Edit/Delete Message

 

Hi Tara,

 

There are tons of discussions on this topic throughout this forum, so perhaps you can try searching for some of them.

 

Just to get you started, here is a site with updated information on Canadians completing their education in the US and returning to Ontario (see pathway 3):

 

http://www.healthforceontario.ca/Work/OutsideOntario/PhysiciansOutsideOntario/PracticeRequirements.aspx

 

From my understanding, since Ontario is projecting that they will have a shortage of physicians, they're making it relatively easy for people from the US to return.

[UnderDog]

What kind of barriers do we face if we want to do a residency in Canada after graduating with a MD in the states?

 

I know it's been mentioned before, but I just wanted to clarify...do we have to write any tests?

 

We're still classified as CMGs and eligible for first round CARMS right? Do you think residency directors will be biased?

[keith_015]

What kind of barriers do we face if we want to do a residency in Canada after graduating with a MD in the states?

 

I know it's been mentioned before, but I just wanted to clarify...do we have to write any tests?

 

We're still classified as CMGs and eligible for first round CARMS right? Do you think residency directors will be biased?

 

Might help to read the sticky "Timeline for Residency". I bet a lot of answers are in there

[UnderDog]

You are not a CMG, you are a USMG, and definitely eligible for first round of carms. You are not completely on par, but pretty close, and much better than IMGs.

http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/8MatchReport_E.pdf

 

Any chance for super competitive residencies? rad onc, ophtho? or are you screwed?

[moo]

You are not at a disadvantage, especially for non-competitive programs. When I applied for Family Med as a US grad, I interviewed at all places I applied to (granted, some residency programs offer interviews to everybody but one of my Canadian grad friends who trained with me in FM got rejected without an interview from UWO when I got an interview). Even for competitive programs (I also applied to anesthesiology which is semi-competitive), I got offered interviews at most of the places I applied to. I only interviewed at 2 anesthesia programs though (UT and McGill) and declined the others as I was pretty sure I wanted to do primary care and then Community Medicine by the time interviews came around. Anyway the McGill anesthesia PD told me that they were very happy that I had applied to their program and really hoped that I ranked them high (in the end I ranked anesthesia below all family programs). But in this game of Carms and NRMP interviews, who knows, they could be saying that to everyone.

 

And as for exams, you do the exact same exams as Canadian grads. I actually found the Canadian exams easier than the USMLEs, although I know most people find it the other way around. The LMCC Part 2 really was a joke (largely because there is a list of old OSCE questions floating around that we all studied off of that probably is illegal). Part 1 wasn't too hard either, certainly nothing like USMLE Step 1, and I felt easier than Step 2.

 

Bottom line: doing a US MD is probably the safest thing if you can't get into a Canadian school. If you were like me and actually chose to study in the US, it's an experience that you won't regret. Financially, you'll pay off your loans in not time, if you're smart and do your research before you match. Coming back to Canada, especially if you want to do non-competitive residencies like FP, psych, internal med, etc. is pretty easy and training in the US will definitely give you an edge if you eventually want to stay in the US. One other thing to keep in mind is if you know you want to specialize in something I would actually pick the US over Canada. For some specialties (most notably neurosurg and cardiac surgery, but also specialties like peds rheum and other subspecialties) getting a job in Canada may be difficult and you may be forced to go to the US, in which case, you probably might as well just have trained in the US. Moreover, if I specialized in something, I would rather be in a major US center than live in London or Kingston, for instance (no offense but I just don't find small town Canada very appealing). Of course not many people know what they wanna do before med school (and even I changed my mind right up until I started doing Carms interviews) so this isn't feasible for them.

[rmitch8]

Thanks for the useful info moo.

 

How did the timeline for studying for both the USMLE/Canadian exams work for you? Did you do both the USMLE step 1 and the first Canadian exam at roughly the same period in your med education (i.e both after second year)?

 

I was wondering if it's possible to do both the USMLEs and Canadian exams during a 4 year US med school span without killing yourself? It sounds from your post like they are very similar and require minimal differences in study material...

 

Also, as a resident practicing in Canada after graduating from a US med school, have you found it challenging to manage the payment of (generally) high US graduating loans, on the (generally) lower physician salaries in Can??

 

Thanks! I apologize if these questions have been asked elsewhere.

 

Edit: Found the Answer to one of my questions here: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showpost.php?p=184115&postcount=10

[CdnatWayne]

moo,

 

Did you do any electives in Canada during your 4th year?

[moo]

Thanks for the useful info moo.

 

How did the timeline for studying for both the USMLE/Canadian exams work for you? Did you do both the USMLE step 1 and the first Canadian exam at roughly the same period in your med education (i.e both after second year)?

 

I was wondering if it's possible to do both the USMLEs and Canadian exams during a 4 year US med school span without killing yourself? It sounds from your post like they are very similar and require minimal differences in study material...

 

Also, as a resident practicing in Canada after graduating from a US med school, have you found it challenging to manage the payment of (generally) high US graduating loans, on the (generally) lower physician salaries in Can??

 

Thanks! I apologize if these questions have been asked elsewhere.

 

Edit: Found the Answer to one of my questions here: http://www.premed101.com/forums/showpost.php?p=184115&postcount=10

 

Studying for LMCC Part I and USMLE Step 2 together was a cinch. I took them essentially back to back. THe LMCCs do have some Canadian specific content (mostly public health, the Canadian HCS) but just read Toronto notes for that.

 

As for repayment of loans, you actually make MORE as a resident in Canada than in most places in the US. And with your tuition credit, you do not pay taxes. And the pay escalation in subsequent years is much greater in Canada than in the US. I paid off my Canada student loans (about 50k) in about a year and a half after graduating med school. I paid my other loans back (to my parents mostly) a year after being in private practice. Also, if you wanna do primary care, and you work hard, you make a ton more in Canada than in the US. If you do a procedural based specialty, you would make more in the US.

[moo]

moo,

 

Did you do any electives in Canada during your 4th year?

 

Yes I did.

[ploughboy]

Also, how does moonlighting work?

 

If I made sense of it, you can ML as a GIM if you have 4+ years of IM + a subspecialty. I think you can also start moonlighting as a Gen Surg if you are well in your fellowship?

.

 

Moonlighting in Ontario:

http://www.restrictedregistrationontario.ca/index.html

[moo]

moo, you mentioned before in one post that you pulled in like something crazy, 20k a month. I just wanted to know more about how you managed to do that. I kind of want to do that right after getting out of residency while I'm still young able to get out of this debt, and then slow it down a little and possibly pursue a more academic career. Any thoughts? Also, how does moonlighting work?

 

If I made sense of it, you can ML as a GIM if you have 4+ years of IM + a subspecialty. I think you can also start moonlighting as a Gen Surg if you are well in your fellowship?

 

I think the hard part for me to grasp is how you are able to moonlight sufficiently when they got you working like a dog doing 70-80 hours a week.

 

It depends on what specialty you're in. I would not try to moonlight if I did something like GIM, gen surg, etc. But I'm in Community Medicine, which is largely a 9-5 job. I see patients in the evenings and weekends. And while I am doing my MPH right now, I am in class only 12 hours a week (at most, usually less because I skip certain classes that I deem not helpful and that I can study on my own for) so I am able to work 30+ hours a week. With homework, things can get hectic but you need to properly time manage, and never procrastinate. Toward the end of this semester I have never felt stressed in my residency.

 

I know people in Gen Surg though who moonlight in the ICU, make about I think 70-80 bucks an hour. Essentially they do call for the ICU overnight. It varies from province to province but moonlighting is generally allowed after PGY-2. Again, I would not be able to make 20k a month if I were doing a more clinical specialty like GIM or GS, but you can still make some extra cash moonlighting.

[kalia]

If you're an American medical school student whose first two years are on a grading system of A/B/C/F, how would that compare to the P/F system used at most Canadian schools when applying for residency with CaRMS?