Too dumb for med?

[Investment-Banker]

Hi everyone,

 

Just stumbled on this site while trying to figure out what, if anything, I should be doing with my life.

 

I'm closing in on 30 and the last time I was in school was nearly 10 years ago when I flunked out of a community college program (my first semester I had all F's and was kicked out).

 

I had a difficult time making the transition from high school to University. In high school, I was an average student who did nothing to get by. A few months into college I was being destroyed in my classes and just gave up. I used to show up to school just to use the internet since I didn't have it at home.

 

I have since taken a few licensing courses and actually managed to get a management position at an investment bank. I have had a chance to work with some great people that run Wall Street and the experience is unreal.

 

I know I would be hard pressed to ever make the money I'm making now in any other position, especially considering my lack of academic credentials. I currently make about $150 a year however this can be much larger once I'm in my 40's.

 

While the money is a huge motivator, I'm making enough money at a young enough age to know that being able to buy nice things is not what's going to keep me going for the next 35 - 40 years.

 

I have always had a massive amount of respect for physicians and considered pursuing it but discounted myself since I had average grades in high school and pretty much the worst possible experience in a post secondary environment.

 

What options are there for me?

 

I was considering taking night classes in areas that are of interest. I was thinking a degree in psychology since that is an area of interest for me. I will be working full time and will not be giving up a job that could very well pay me 7 figures in my golden years until I get an acceptance into the med program. What this means is there is going to be no chance of me doing an undergrad of traditional science such as chemistry or biology. If I get to the point where I am accepted into a med school, I would take my current life, bind the end, and place it on the shelf with the likes of the Complete Works of Tacitus. I would welcome the new adventure.

 

I do know that having a part time course load throughout the year along with a degree that does not contain the core sciences puts me at a disadvantage. If I were to take microbiology and organic chem, I could pass but I know my GPA would be pulled down. Perhaps many of you would say that since the traditional courses are an impossible for me, that I should just go down the road I am on however I would appreciate ways around that problem (if there are any). Personally, I think traditional stuff is fine for some people but there is always more than one way to get a job done. Often, it is the new way that ends up being better, breaking tradition and creating innovation. Trust me, I'm proof that not taking no for an answer has its rewards! I hear no probably 100 times before I hear one yes, but all I need is that one yes to make it worth my while.

 

The only real advantage I would have is loads of experience dealing with people in high pressure situations and the experience of working with and managing CEO's and high profile businesses. These things may be great for interviews but I have to get there first. Would reference letters from high profile people be considered good for an application even though they have nothing to do with medicine?

 

I will openly admit that while I am committed, I cannot be a child about this either. I have a mortgage, and a bright future where I am so while I am willing to work hard, I have to be realistic.

 

My personal residence is in Calgary but I also have a condo in Vancouver and my office is in Toronto so I'm going to take a stab that I'm OOP for Ontario and BC?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone that can point me in the right direction.

[Charms]

If this is something that you are sure you want and are willing to work hard for, there's no reason why you shouldn't try.

 

RE: Geographical status...

 

From UBC's website:

 

A BC resident, for the MD Undergraduate Admissions purposes, is someone who has met one of the following criteria:

 

Has lived in BC for 24 continuous full months immediately prior to the application deadline; or

Has attended secondary school (grades 8 to 12 inclusive) in British Columbia, or attended for a minimum of three (3) years and had a permanent home in BC (secondary school transcripts must be submitted); or

Within the last five years has attended a university in BC for at least two years; or

Was born in British Columbia and attended a minimum of five years of school in BC. The applicant must also have resided in BC for at least one continuous year in the last ten, unless the applicant has been living and working overseas on a work visa or with the Armed Forces, and has been a resident in BC prior to entering the Armed Forces; or

Has attended residential secondary school (grades 8 to 12 inclusive) in BC, even if his/her permanent home is in another province (secondary school transcripts must be submitted); or

Has been a resident in BC for five years at any time for any reason and has resided in BC continuously for at least one year in the last ten; or

Is a resident-under any of the above terms-of the Yukon, NW Territories, or Nunavut.

 

 

 

For the Ontario schools, nobody *really* cares about IP/OOP except McMaster, who says this:

 

Ninety percent of interview positions will be given to those who qualify as 1) Province of Ontario resident, and 10% to those who qualify as 2) outside Ontario .

 

To qualify for 1) above, an applicant must: a) be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident by October 1, 2009, and have resided for at least three years in Ontario since the age of 14 by the date of possible entry to the program. Attendance at a university in Ontario for at least three years by June of the year of possible entry to the program satisfies the second requirement.

[gnomey]

Hi there, as a more mature student, UBC offers 10 yr exclusion factor on grades. For instance, my grades sucked like yours and I went back to UVic at 35yrs old and worked f/t during biology degree in which I did 4classes a semester. I was able to have my previous marks ignored as I had been out of school for 10yrs. UBC is the only school that I know of that offers this. It is something to think about.

[Coach]

After reading your post, it appears that your past performance in HS and college was impacted more by your attitude than anything else. We all know that a bad attitude toward studies = bad results.

 

My advice is to go out and test the waters... maybe enroll for one or two courses part-time and see your results. If you work hard and you get high marks then you can make a decision from there; if you don't try, you will be asking yourself why in 20 or 30 years from now.

[AndreaM]

I would suggest you get some experience with healthcare before committing to medicine. Volunteer in a hospital where you can get patient contact. See if you can shadow a doctor. Really understand what medicine is. Medicine has great potential for high earnings, but has long hours, you will have patients who say you're an idiot despite all you have done for them, you will have someone sue you for something that really wasn't your fault. Medicine is something that you should pursue only if you really understand what it is, not because of a romanticised ideal.

 

I am not trying to discourage you, but rather make sure that medicine is really what you want.

 

That said, not all schools will look at marks from part-time schooling, so research that before you start. UofA is one of those schools. UBC will likely flag your application if you don't have at least one year where you did full time. Many schools have pre-requisites, so be prepared to take at least a few science courses. UCalgary only uses your best two years for cut-off purposes so your early years make make it difficult for you there. Many schools that only use your best/last two years weight the MCAT heavily so I would suggest researching the MCAT and doing some practice tests to get an idea of what it is like. UManitoba drops a certain number of your worst courses based on the total number you have taken, so that could help you get rid of your F's and get a spot there. NOSM only considers your most recent degree, but they have a strong regional/rural bias in their admissions. I would suggest really researching your options and then making your decision from there. Goodluck in all your endeavours.

[jbdent]

You should probably take a few undergrad pre-req science courses, see how you do in them, and then think about where you want to go from there. No sense trying to figure everything out now if you haven't even taken pre-req's.

[ploughboy]

I currently make about $150 a year however this can be much larger once I'm in my 40's.

 

I presume there's supposed to be a "k" in there somewhere

 

What options are there for me?

 

Step one would be to research the admission criteria for Canadian schools. There are only a dozen or so of them (English-speaking) and they all have pretty comprehensive websites. This board is also a great resource -- suggest a high-yield activity would be to look back through old posts as your story is not uncommon.

 

I was considering taking night classes in areas that are of interest. I was thinking a degree in psychology since that is an area of interest for me. I will be working full time and will not be giving up a job that could very well pay me 7 figures in my golden years until I get an acceptance into the med program.

 

Not doing a full-time undergrad will elimiinate you from consideration at certain schools but won't harm you at others (see "look up admission reqs", above).

 

Given your previous history, I agree with others that getting your feet wet with less than a full course load before jumping in might be reasonable (keeping in mind that this will have consequences -- eg you won't be eligible for U of T's modified GPA calculation if you do this).

 

When I went back to uni to make a run at med school, I had a 3-year plan with various decision points regarding GPA etc embedded into it. But...I wasn't working at the time and was able to dedicate all of my attention to getting a good GPA, good MCAT etc. Sounds like that's not an option for you.

 

The only real advantage I would have is loads of experience dealing with people in high pressure situations and the experience of working with and managing CEO's and high profile businesses. These things may be great for interviews but I have to get there first.

 

Useful skill in interviews, useful in clerkship, very useful residency and practice but like you say you have to get there first.

 

Would reference letters from high profile people be considered good for an application even though they have nothing to do with medicine?

 

Unlikely to help a whole lot in Canada, where LoRs are mostly used as flags. A letter from a DeGroote or a Schulich likely wouldn't hurt but probably wouldn't afford you much additional impact vs a letter from a random professor, especially at schools other than Mac and UWO.

 

Random thought, and I don't mean this pejoratively at all, but med admissions is a bit of a lottery even for highly qualified candidates with stellar GPAs etc. Many apply multiple times. Given that it sounds like you have more money than time, perhaps focusing on an American/Irish/Aussie med school (where the admission cut-offs are lower, but the tuition is much higher) would be an appropriate strategy. Keep in mind, however, that would come with its own set of challenges re: obtaining a residency position in Canada.

 

Hope this helps.

[Real Beef]

You have a long difficult road ahead. From starting with a med school application that is devoid of strengths and credentials to having a competitive application that can be thrown in with the other two thousand applications that will be equally as good, after you've worked hard for 5-6 years getting it up to snuff.

 

Im not trying to kill the spark that has fueled your new interest in medicine, however perhaps you are viewing medicine in a very romanticized way "That helping people on a daily basis will bring fulfillment to your life" while the reality of it is not quite so. I work as a health professional and some of the time I feel good about what Ive done with my patients other days I would like to choke my patients. Once I get into medicine (yes I am that confident that I can say 'once I do' not if I do ) I will probably feel the same about wanting to choke some of my patients.

 

I agree with one poster who suggested that you volunteer at a hospital and see what the reality of health care is and see whether you feel fulfilled in that setting. I have been a volunteer, support staff and now a health care professional in the health care field and enjoy(ed) the environment so I know for sure that Im going in the right direction. I would try that before you start enrolling in university courses which eat into your life.

 

If your still enthused about medicine after volunteering in the hospital than go ahead and start making a plan to build a med application from the ground up however if you are not enthused with meds after that perhaps you just need to add something to your life beside your current work that brings fulfillment like coaching basketball at a local rec center or join a volunteer fire department, these things can bring meaning to your life if you are not totally into your work. After all many people dont like their work, think of Walmart workers or people who work at menial jobs thats why they have hobbies and volunteer interests of are in service groups so that they fulfill that part of themselves that makes them feel they have contributed to society in a meaningful way besides just saying "Paper or plastic" or perhaps more timely "Did you bring your own bags or do we need to charge you 5 cents for our plastic bags" When I found my work less than fulfilling I joined the local fire dept as a volunteer and have enjoyed saving many burning buildings and helped people in distress etc., which gave me a nice change from my routine patients day to day.

 

Whether you find my post offensive, blunt or whether you like it I dont know however that is how I see it.

 

Beef

[A-Stark]

I think you might have a hard time finishing an undergrad degree in a reasonable amount of time while working full time. Look into specific admissions requirements, of course, but I'd consider seriously that your commitment to trying for med almost requires doing some full time semesters. And if you feel like you'd just manage to pass micro and organic chem, how do you think you'd fare on the MCAT much less deal with the volume of information in med school? I don't mean to be unkind, but getting in requires commitments - sacrifices, I suppose, from your current situation - that you need to be prepared to make.

 

Simply put, you need to know the "traditional" stuff before you can find "new ways" to do things much less "break tradition" or "create innovation".

 

And I must ask one blunt question: Why do you want to be a physician?

There's a follow-up: What do you think being a physician is like?

[Investment-Banker]

I agree that it is better to ease into something rather than jump in without much planning. My comments about not being conventional would be related to the stigma that is attached to Science degrees being the only way to gain acceptance into an MD program. I too used to believe this but found out later on that this was not true. I am aware that taking a 'different' road would likely curb some of my chances at schools that require intensive science classes.

 

I am aware that the MCAT is science based but from what I gather, it seems like most of the material on the exam is fairly basic but broad. One thing I was not aware of however was the full course load that many of the MD programs require.

 

Many people in my industry have caught me leering into anything related to med such as articles, books and online admission to universities.

 

The reason for the need to switch is comprised of two elements. The first being that the investment world is a dirty place. Without writing a novel, the last few years on the inside of Wall Street with companies that manage investments have opened my eyes. I find it difficult to work in an industry that is based on nothing but insider trading, lies, and so on. I work with a bunch of people who make money at the expense of the average person.

 

To give you an example of how much they are cheating people, my wage of $150k per year is the lowest in the company I work with by a mile. I work with plenty of people that have biweekly paycheques in the $200-500k range. This is money that is being cheated out of the general population. At first, it's cool just to see the numbers and be a part of what is the lifeblood of the economy but I can't do it anymore. I care too much about what's right and the industry is corrupt.

 

The other element is that I've always had an interest in being a doctor. I am friends with my family doctor to some degree and he openly admitted that there was little he could help me with since it has been such a long time since his career began. I think to say I want to be a doctor without a doubt would be arrogant since you never really know until you're in that position doing that job. At best, I can make an educated guess of 'absolutely'.

[dbjones]

Certainly an interesting story! But like other forum members have pointed out, its going to be a tough road ahead. Trying to maintain a full course load and keeping your current occupation will be a strain.

I agree with ploughboy's suggestion:

Have you considered applying to schools overseas. Usually these schools have lower standards of admission but deter many applicants due to their high tuition costs. But due to your high salary this may not be a barrier. I don't know the standards of admission or requirements. But if your open to going overseas I definitely suggest giving it some thought/research.

[Borborygmi]

Every time I read a story like this, I take comfort in knowing I'm not the only one that has left an established career for the med plunge. You're not alone my friend .

 

I've essentially gone through your exact scenario. I realized that the career I had wasn't fulfilling, and that I wasn't contributing to the world in the way that I wanted. Perhaps the difference here is.... I'm not really sure how I ended up in my old career path because I was always drawn towards a medical science of some kind from an early age. Alas!

 

Just from my experience:

 

- I definitely agree with posters above. Ease into this transition. University-level science studying is extremely different from your day-to-day job (x1000 times more work). When I first starting the transition I took 2 courses per term for a regular school year while working full time, plus courses through the summer. This made me realize what was involved and that I was doing the right thing.

 

- That following spring I applied to a few schools for full time study. I chose to accept UofT's offer. In hindsight I probably should have gone elsewhere, but I was pleased with the acceptance. Choose the school you want to study at wisely. I didn't believe that gpa was everything, but it really is... be careful. It's possible to work part time while you're in university to pay the bills, mortgage, whatever without accumulating a large debt. We'd be similar in this regard. We're lucky in that we both have come from careers where we made a decent amount of money. You can work a fraction of what normal people will need to and still pay the bills. I was actually really shocked at how little I needed to get by in comparison to how I was spending when making a larger sum of money. Quite satisfying!

 

- Above all. Realize that this path is A LOT of work. Your career and story are both interesting, but med admissions will still be looking for a lot more. Diversify your life a bit more and you'll be in a good place. If you aren't prepared for the amount of work you will need to do though... I would strongly consider whether this is right for you. You'll know after a year of part time study, in my opinion.

 

If I can do it so can you. Just stay focused and know what you want. The rest will fall in place (whether it's med or another path). The important part is that you want to make positive change.

 

Good luck! I wish you great success.

[Coach]

Yikes! This thread has got me just a little worried.

For those of you who have read some of my initial posts a few months ago, you will know that my story isn't very different to the OP.

 

While I wont say the above posts and advice has scared me off, I will say thank you to everyone for being so open, honest and realistic. It is an eye opener and food for thought. I do think many of us have a romantic picture of becoming a doctor and we overlook the marathon required to get there. Add insult to injury - you read and hear of many doctors being unhappy with where they end up (in terms of quality of life).

 

My biggest concern is giving up a well-paid and promising career at my bank, only to run into a new set of challenges (i.e. study stress, years of financial sacrific and crazy work hours).

 

Gulp!

 

Lucky that I have time to sit and consider all the alternatives.

[Investment-Banker]

Again, I'm not trying to put down anyone's ambition, I'm just sharing what I wish I knew when I started and giving myself as an example of someone who moved on from the dream and is much happier for it.

 

Now, what's right for me obviously isn't right for everyone, but a different perspective never hurts.

 

I have nothing but respect for those who are honest. Typically, people who really want your opinion only want it if it's the same as what they already have constructed in their mind or leads to the same predetermined outcome they have set out.

 

I believe being a doctor has been somewhat sensationalized. The promise of millions of dollars, respect anywhere you go etc. Media and misconceptions have fueled this. The same is true for lawyers. Everyone assumes they make a lot of money, and while some do, many make what I would consider very average.

 

When I tell people what I do for a living, I get two groups. One, that hates my guts and wishes they could kill me and another, that look at me as if I am some kind of God to work in my position. What isn't there to love about being a partner in a leading financial firm on Wall street? As I've found out... plenty.

 

I am going to take a long and hard look at my situation so I thank everyone for your honest take on the process. A co-worker of mine said that if I am that concerned with helping people, that I would serve a better a larger purpose staying put. His suggestions were everything from donating money to doctors and programs to trying to fix the problems that are within the financial sector.

 

Sometimes I wish I was really stupid or really smart. If you're really smart, you can be a prodigy in a field. If you're stupid, then you can life a boring life and be none the wiser. I'm smart enough to know I want more but perhaps not smart enough to go beyond that exorbitant point.

[ploughboy]

 

Also, after years of school, I'm just not up for studying hours and hours every night.

Don't underestimate the stamina it will take to ace school for a decade...It's easy when you're dying to get in to think that you can tough it through anything...The first part of med school is the easy part, I can't even imagine having to be on call! Being here now makes me realize how crazy I was for thinking that I wanted to put myself through it in the first place..

 

Quoted for truth. Right now I'm on a fun off-service rotation, and I had a really good day in the OR and then doing ER consults. But I was still at the hospital for 14 hours, I have to wake up at 05h30, and before I go to sleep I really need to spend a couple of hours reading more about hand trauma. And that's a pretty standard day for me. Can you picture yourself doing that day after day, month after month? Sometimes I can't even picture myself doing that long-term, and I daydream about owning an antique shop, or running a cozy little bed and breakfast (or maybe going on welfare and dealing percs on the side, since apparently one can make a pretty good living that way...)

 

My point, and I do have one, is that you're signing up for years of work. Count on four or more years to get into meds, four years of meds, potentially five years of residency plus or minus fellowship plus or minus grad school. On the one hand, you don't want to be 80 years old and looking back on your life going "coulda shoulda woulda". On the other hand, a cushy career as an i-banker with a 6-7 figure salary seems pretty darn attractive...

[Satsuma]

I have to wake up at 05h30, and before I go to sleep I really need to spend a couple of hours reading more about hand trauma. And that's a pretty standard day for me. Can you picture yourself doing that day after day, month after month? Sometimes I can't even picture myself doing that long-term, and I daydream about owning an antique shop, or running a cozy little bed and breakfast

 

Yep...what were any of us thinking!?! I didn`t stop to have dinner until 10 oclock last night, and when I finally got home, had to read about perilunate fractures (at least I was warned about the pimping that would occur at 7am the next morning) and deal with being woken up q1h with floor issues - someone's SBP > 210, someone else in too much pain etc. Then full next day!

 

And that being said....people just see this as your job and frankly is rather thankless in the end.

 

I daydream about being a chocolatier or even just having a really cool tea shop!

[Rayven]

$150k/year? Where do i sign up!

[crockett]

I'm not really sure I believe your I-banking story...it is next to impossible to go from being an analyst to an associate without an MBA, so how you've reached partner without any post-secondary education whatsoever is unbelievable, I mean to become an analyst at a renowned I-bank takes a fantastic uni finance GPA from a well-known school...secondly, you say you work in T.O, yet keep on referring to people on Wall St...which is in New York...people in finance and I-banking in Canada talk about Bay Street...Finally, while I agree that the financial world has shown us in the last two years how shady it can be, I-bankers are making money because they make money for the people who invest in them, how that is taking money away from other people I have no idea. Anyways, sorry to be such a pessimist, because I don't really get why anyone would make a story up (and hopefully you're not), but it just doesn't seem to add up to me. But best of luck with the medical career, if you are an I-banker you can at least take comfort in knowing that residency hours will seem easy for you!

[Jochi1543]

You don't have to be in finance to succeed in investment banking. I know a girl who was recruited out of an English degree and had a very successful career in IB. They are basically just looking for really high achievers from any field. Then they make them work 120 hours a week and sleep under their desk and then they fire them, lol.

[Corsci]

I'm not really sure I believe your I-banking story...it is next to impossible to go from being an analyst to an associate without an MBA, so how you've reached partner without any post-secondary education whatsoever is unbelievable, I mean to become an analyst at a renowned I-bank takes a fantastic uni finance GPA from a well-known school...secondly, you say you work in T.O, yet keep on referring to people on Wall St...which is in New York...people in finance and I-banking in Canada talk about Bay Street...Finally, while I agree that the financial world has shown us in the last two years how shady it can be, I-bankers are making money because they make money for the people who invest in them, how that is taking money away from other people I have no idea. Anyways, sorry to be such a pessimist, because I don't really get why anyone would make a story up (and hopefully you're not), but it just doesn't seem to add up to me. But best of luck with the medical career, if you are an I-banker you can at least take comfort in knowing that residency hours will seem easy for you!

 

valid suspicions... partners would generally be making 3 to 5 times the 150k/yr he said. To be a partner before 30 is pretty outstanding, if you can accomplish this then you're looking at becoming the next warren buffet. Maybe the firm is not quite as successful as stated.

[Real Beef]

I'm not really sure I believe your I-banking story...it is next to impossible to go from being an analyst to an associate without an MBA, so how you've reached partner without any post-secondary education whatsoever is unbelievable, I mean to become an analyst at a renowned I-bank takes a fantastic uni finance GPA from a well-known school...secondly, you say you work in T.O, yet keep on referring to people on Wall St...which is in New York...people in finance and I-banking in Canada talk about Bay Street...Finally, while I agree that the financial world has shown us in the last two years how shady it can be, I-bankers are making money because they make money for the people who invest in them, how that is taking money away from other people I have no idea. Anyways, sorry to be such a pessimist, because I don't really get why anyone would make a story up (and hopefully you're not), but it just doesn't seem to add up to me. But best of luck with the medical career, if you are an I-banker you can at least take comfort in knowing that residency hours will seem easy for you!

 

Well done Crockett, I had similar suspicions however I couldnt articulate my suspicions in such a concise way. I hope he is who he says he is however I to was confused by his referring to Wall Street, lack of post-secondary credentials and so on.

 

OP: Could you scan one of your pay stubs and post it to verify that you are who you say you are

 

Beef

[D-Rock]

I daydream about owning an antique shop, or running a cozy little bed and breakfast

 

So familiar! Every time I walked by the Tim Hortons near the hospital, I would see the sign that says "Competitive wages, great benefits, potential for advancement", and then I would think, "Huh, I'll bet that doesn't take 9 years."

[AdamP]

Interesting to read your take on IB as a career. Really it pisses me off to read and reflect on how much of a leech they are to the economy. People are running off it do it all the time, hell they can't find enough room around western for all the Ivey expansions.

 

Not that I have any grudge against business students, the entrepreneurs and innovators have all my support, but I know that most of those kids are gunning for the top IB job, which seems to be the most respected and highest paid route to go.

 

Hopefully evolution (aka revolution) by natural selection (aka people going nuts and revolting) will correct some of the excesses and prevent our country from becoming more of a plutocracy (1 percent of the US population now controls 95 percent of its wealth).

[Investment-Banker]

I'm not really sure I believe your I-banking story...it is next to impossible to go from being an analyst to an associate without an MBA, so how you've reached partner without any post-secondary education whatsoever is unbelievable,

 

First, I am not a partner, although I can understand how my last post may be misconstrued. I work with the partners but the goal in the long run would to be a partner. Partners within an investment firm can earn 8 or 9 figure incomes. Considering I make 150k a year that's a long ways away from the long term potential. Perhaps to a student, 150k seems like a lot but when you work with people who take home weekly bonuses larger than my yearly salary, it puts it in perspective.

 

Education gets you in the door with these firms and this is important because there are millions of people banging on the door and competition is ferocious. The problem that a lot of 4.0 GPA smart asses do not understand is that performance is what keeps your job. At the end of the day, these people want to know, can you build relationships with key people and win them over and have them trust you? Can you make the right moves in the market? Essentially, if you find a way to prove yourself, you could have a grade 2 education and they'd be happy to have you on the team.

 

I mean to become an analyst at a renowned I-bank takes a fantastic uni finance GPA from a well-known school...secondly, you say you work in T.O, yet keep on referring to people on Wall St...which is in New York...people in finance and I-banking in Canada talk about Bay Street...

 

First, the company I work for is actually based in Boston, but have offices in New York and in Toronto as well as Vancouver (which is my hometown and where I first had the opportunity to start working). When I'm in New York, it's Wall St, in Toronto, it's actually Adelaide Street which is VERY close to Bay St. and when I'm in Boston which is rare, it's Devonshire St. When I get back from a trip to New York and people ask where I was, I tell them I was working on Wall Street. Why would I say Bay Street or Georgia Street?

 

I-banking is not just ONE specific job. There are lawyers for investment firms, managers, traders, accountants/CFA's, wholesalers (who sometimes can make the most money and require NO education at all), strategists etc. Again, you need a law degree to be a lawyer because there are rules stating what you have to have to be a lawyer, just like a doctor or a CGA etc. Many jobs do not have a legal requirement such as an MBA. The only requirement is can you do the job? Can you make us money? Are you able to perform?

 

Finally, while I agree that the financial world has shown us in the last two years how shady it can be, I-bankers are making money because they make money for the people who invest in them, how that is taking money away from other people I have no idea.

 

I'm glad to see the media has done a great job of blinding you to the facts. Perhaps it's more obvious to me because I'm in the trenches with this stuff. The investment world is a negative sum game. Economics does not teach this in school but for every dollar gained in the market, somebody somewhere, had to lose that dollar. It's not a zero sum game because during that 'give a dollar take a dollar process', some of that dollar is given to people like me albeit a very small fraction.

 

During times like this last year, where significant gains have been made, it's has essentially been tax dollars through government stimulus that have helped some companies and their owners double their wealth. Where is that money coming from? The average man woman and child. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This is exactly why there is a battle with myself to stay or leave. Can you make a lot of money? Yes. Does it feel good to know even penny you make is off the backs of some poor fool who has no clue? For me, no. Look at companies like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan and thoroughly research them. A bright mind can draw an obvious conclusion with some time.

 

Anyways, sorry to be such a pessimist, because I don't really get why anyone would make a story up (and hopefully you're not), but it just doesn't seem to add up to me. But best of luck with the medical career, if you are an I-banker you can at least take comfort in knowing that residency hours will seem easy for you!

 

I would suggest being a lawyer due to your pessimistic and inquisitive nature, however a good lawyer would have came into court knowing the case before hand. The financial world is a funny place, one that is likely one of the most illusive and confusing, even to many of those within the gates which is likely where your preconceived notions have come from.

 

My hours in I-banking would be less than medicine in many cases from what I have heard. I appreciate your support on my success however the truth is, I don't think I could handle being in school. It is just not me, even though I do enjoy the sciences.

 

Some of us are just not cut out for that traditional classroom and being a doctor requires that. It probably explains why I've ended up where I am. Smart enough to do the job, but not patient enough to sit down in a classroom.

[Investment-Banker]

Well done Crockett, I had similar suspicions however I couldnt articulate my suspicions in such a concise way. I hope he is who he says he is however I to was confused by his referring to Wall Street, lack of post-secondary credentials and so on.

 

OP: Could you scan one of your pay stubs and post it to verify that you are who you say you are

 

Beef

 

Since when did making 150k a year impress anyone to the point where they need to scan a pay stub? I have client dinner receipts and my window sticker on my car that might be more 'impressive' but that has not and is not my intent here.