Class size cuts at UofA

[sv3]

This could all be very well true, but I am personaly unsure of how provincial budgeting and the Alberta government works... so, I won't even attempt to comment on it. I do understand the concept of people entering their senior years and wanting to retire. And, I know that the baby boomers represent a large percent of the population and once they start retiring, there's going to be a shortage of professionals to take their space -- especially if the government starts cutting the seats right now...

 

Budgted program expense is 38.4 Billion for 2010-1. like i said, 50 million isnt a big deal out of this base.

 

But Advanced Education and Technology take a 6% hit year over year (decrease of $205 million). somehow, this doesnt make sense considering the Premier's thoughts......

 

Here's a wicked quote:

 

“This government understands the value Albertans place on health care, education, and protecting our most vulnerable,” said Premier Ed Stelmach. “Our improved fiscal and economic outlook means we can continue to support these priorities while tightening our spending elsewhere.”

 

by "support" he must mean cut. Gotto love the politician's theasurus

[future_doc]

Wow, really wicked, says one thing while means another! And the electorate is none the wiser.

[Mourning Cloak]

I was wondering how many med students are being admitted across the country in 2010.

 

The College of Family Physicians projected that the optimum number of first year med students in 2010 should be set at 3000 with 45% of those going into family medicine.

http://www.cfpc.ca/local/files/Communications/Report%20Card%20FINAL%20English.pdf

[sv3]

I was wondering how many med students are being admitted across the country in 2010.

 

The College of Family Physicians projected that the optimum number of first year med students in 2010 should be set at 3000 with 45% of those going into family medicine.

http://www.cfpc.ca/local/files/Communications/Report%20Card%20FINAL%20English.pdf

 

Interesting read. thanks.

 

If the number is short of this, will anyone in power care though? I don't think it matters much in that sense. I think the problems with health care are well known, and that there has been some improvement in some areas. However, when governments make cuts they don't really consider all angles - they just do what gets them to the right number (budget wise). It's up to groups like the College, the University, the students, and the general populaton to speak up - i really think this is the way the government works. Unless you scream, you never get paid due attention. Hopefully there's a lot of noise created about this. I know that emails have already gone out to all those addresses listed a few posts above. I just hope there's enough of them sent.

[tearless]

...The media could investigate and get all the angles - thats their job...

 

Well... not really. They could, but I wouldn't say they have a history of doing so.

 

...Anyway, I just think premeds are totally within their right to talk to the media if they wish.

 

Absolutely, anybody can talk to the media if they wanted to. You should just be careful about who you claim to be representing. It's a bit of a conundrum for people like the MSA exec etc., but you can go nuts with your personal opinion. Possible repercussions are another matter altogether.

[sv3]

Well... not really. They could, but I wouldn't say they have a history of doing so.

 

 

 

Absolutely, anybody can talk to the media if they wanted to. You should just be careful about who you claim to be representing. It's a bit of a conundrum for people like the MSA exec etc., but you can go nuts with your personal opinion. Possible repercussions are another matter altogether.

 

i don't plan to say much. something along the lines of "hear is what i have heard, and that its completely inconsistent with what govt officials talk about. I think its an important public health and public education issue. I think the media could help raise public awareness of this issue and the consequences, etc etc. You may want to investigate this further". I dont plan on sounding off and sounding completely biased - wouldnt help. I dont see any repercussions if done well......or annonymously. And I just represent a student and a concerned citizen - who else right?

 

Of course considering the super tight timeline, i dont expect this to help. I wish news of these cuts came out much earlier - it would have been significantly easier to raise awareness and resistance months ago, instead of at the last minute - thats a huge problem here. Initially, i thought perhaps these cuts were for 2011 as its too soon for 2010 - but perhaps this is the way the govt works? Don't give much notice so to face less resistance. I don't know. Just unfortunate.

[crimson]

Over the past few years, the Alberta government, as part of an election promise, funded a rapid increase in medical school class sizes (Class of 2011 has 120-something; Class of 2012 has 159; Class of 2013 has 180ish) of with the "Enrollment Planning Envelope". Some have even argued that this expansion was too rapid (I agree). All of a sudden now, the government has CANCELLED the EPE. Not only does this screw over the 2014s, but the Faculty has even gone so far to say that there is now about a dozen or so people in the 2012/2013 classes who will basically be "without funding"... this will result in worse (or further worsening) preceptor-to-student ratios in small group learning, clinical training, etc. This will not mean anyone will be kicked out, but it does throw another wrench in the already messed up doctor factory.

 

I don't want to state numbers in fear of causing massive panic among applicants, but I've heard there will be DRASTIC decreases in class sizes. Oh yeah, and we have accreditation coming back in a few months. Hooray!

 

All in all, the Alberta Government is a joke.

[sv3]

Over the past few years, the Alberta government, as part of an election promise, funded a rapid increase in medical school class sizes (Class of 2011 has 120-something; Class of 2012 has 159; Class of 2013 has 180ish) of with the "Enrollment Planning Envelope". Some have even argued that this expansion was too rapid (I agree). All of a sudden now, the government has CANCELLED the EPE. Not only does this screw over the 2014s, but the Faculty has even gone so far to say that there is now about a dozen or so people in the 2012/2013 classes who will basically be "without funding"... this will result in worse (or further worsening) preceptor-to-student ratios in small group learning, clinical training, etc. This will not mean anyone will be kicked out, but it does throw another wrench in the already messed up doctor factory.

 

I don't want to state numbers in fear of causing massive panic among applicants, but I've heard there will be DRASTIC decreases in class sizes. Oh yeah, and we have accreditation coming back in a few months. Hooray!

 

All in all, the Alberta Government is a joke.

 

thanks for the info. It all makes sense - everyone loses. I fully agree about the government being a joke - not sure how they didn't expect an increase in medical seats to require a long term (if not infinite) committment with more funding. It's simple isn't it? More seats = more funding. It's a continous process that doesn't stop, so i have no idea how the government can cut funding now. However, what the government will say is that its up to the universities to decide how they go about meeting the budget, and if they decide to cut med seats, that's their fault - I don't know about other people but I can totally see this line of reasoning coming from the government. To a certain extent, the university is at fault (out of the 60 M shortfall, 30M was the govt) for not projecting a "worst case" scenario. You can't always hope for the best cause when it doesn't happen, you're screwed. Still, considering all the expenditures on such nice facilties and whatnot, it is sad they won't be used by as many people as initially thought. And to rub it in a little more I guess, the economy is not as bad as it was a year or even two years ago.......and now the govt cries poor. Shady

[iwh333]

oh the lovely PC gov't.

[jtdang]

FYI, the Edmonton Journal has an article on the class size reduction:

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technology/Budget+surgery+cuts+deep/2766245/story.html

[sv3]

FYI, the Edmonton Journal has an article on the class size reduction:

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technology/Budget+surgery+cuts+deep/2766245/story.html

 

Wow........the applicants really are the last to know. thanks

[slikz]

Wow........the applicants really are the last to know. thanks

Not really. My thought is that one, or a few of the students contacted the media, and what they are utilizing in this news story is what was already regurgitated back to us...

[sv3]

Not really. My thought is that one, or a few of the students contacted the media, and what they are utilizing in this news story is what was already regurgitated back to us...

 

i meant in an official way. Then again, applicants are not students - the schools don't really owe us anything. That's why, even if the tuition increase goes through, it may not save seats...who knows.

 

on that note, i had no idea tuition at UA was so cheap relative to other schools. In a way, had tuition been comparable to other schools across the country, maybe they would have had more money - but i'm sure there are regulations and laws that might have prevented this. Still, at 11-12k a year, its pretty damn cheap. I was under the impression it was around 15/16k a year.

[chuck62]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=102657839771468&ref=mf

 

Stelmach will be at the U of A in 1080 Katz from noon to 1pm this Thursday (April 8th). This would be the perfect opportunity for students and applicants to ask questions about what is going on and what is being done with our education funding.

[sv3]

Well folks, since at least some level of cuts seems fairly likely, I think it's time to kick up a pre-emptive stink. Even though any seat cuts will largely be due to reduced funding from the Ministry of Advanced Education and Technology, if we can frame this as a health issue and target the Health Ministry (an area where the current government is extremely sensitive to negative public opinion--just look at the bucketloads of extra cash in the 2010 Health and Wellness budget), I think that there could be some positive outcomes. After all, Zwozdesky has been reversing unpopular health decisions left and right since taking office.

 

Here are some of the relevant folks. (I would suggest writing to Zwoz, Ed, or Horner and then cc the rest). Remember, one or two letters doesn't make much of a difference, but a whole bunch of letters will--after all, MLAs are obliged to answer each and every one. Increased funding would benefit current medical students as well, so I encourage both applicants and students to take the time to make your concerns known.

 

Gene Zwozdesky (Minister of Health and Wellness): edmonton.millcreek@assembly.ab.ca or health.minister@gov.ab.ca

 

Doug Horner (Minister of Advanced Education and Technology): sprucegrovesturgeon.stalbert@assembly.ab.ca

 

Ed Stelmach (Premier): fortsaskatchewan.vegreville@assembly.ab.ca or premier@gov.ab.ca

 

Dr. Raj Sherman (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Health and Wellness and current ER doc): edmonton.meadowlark@assembly.ab.ca

 

Fred Horne (Co-Chair for the Minister's Advisory Committee on Health): edmonton.rutherford@assembly.ab.ca

 

Dr. David Swann (Leader of the Opposition and former family doc): calgary.mountainview@assembly.ab.ca

 

Brian Mason (Leader of the NDP): edmonton.highlandsnorwood@assembly.ab.ca

 

David Eggen (Friends of Medicare): info@friendsofmedicare.org

 

 

If you email these people, you actually do get replies quite quickly. At least that's what I've heard.......

[future_doc]

very well done and most impressive on the part of sdp12!

[sdp12]

From today's front page:

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/school+cuts+done+deal/2771733/story.html

 

Keep the letters coming, folks!

[skp1187]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=102657839771468&ref=mf

 

Stelmach will be at the U of A in 1080 Katz from noon to 1pm this Thursday (April 8th). This would be the perfect opportunity for students and applicants to ask questions about what is going on and what is being done with our education funding.

 

Can't make it (live in Calgary) but I'm hoping some pre-meds will show up tomorrow and demand answers!

[sv3]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/cutting+medical+spaces/2771527/story.html

 

this is for UC but related obviously to UA

[sv3]

Can't make it (live in Calgary) but I'm hoping some pre-meds will show up tomorrow and demand answers!

 

I know some people are not going to agree with this, but i gotto say, what's going on is a game of chicken between the universities and the government, and the students are the victims. Sure the govt cut funding, i get that, and they are wrong for it. But the university has discretion on how to meet their financial responsiblities and they are choosing to cut med seats, in part for financial reasons which i get, but also (the controversial part) because they know that will raise the ire of the public, hopefully forcing the government to give them more money. Am i 100% sure of this? no. But i can't see this being 100% the governments fault. So, i hope that students not only pressure Stelmach when he's there, but also the higher ups on the university administration food chain. Certainly its not the medical faculty that wants seat cuts, those decisions are made very high up. And i think students need to be aware of that too. This is just my opinion as i can't see the university as 100% innocent here. There's plenty of blame to go around - i just hate being used in this fight between two parties, like bargaining chips.

[apache]

I'm already in med but I'll certainly be writing him a letter, often politicians think in terms of short term financial economic strategy without realizing the long term repercussions of treating the long term ailments people will develop due to our doctor shortage.

 

If other students were interested I'd be willing to request a group meeting to discuss our concerns.

 

On an aside, one of my ex-girlfriends wrote Ed Stelmach a long, very well written e-mail 2 years ago and never got a response, paradoxically Noam Chomsky, world renowned linguist and social scientist at MIT responded in 45 minutes; too bad he isn't the premier!

[Dorothy]

looks like there is still hope: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/school+cuts+done+deal/2771733/story.html

[future_doc]

I know some people are not going to agree with this, but i gotto say, what's going on is a game of chicken between the universities and the government, and the students are the victims.

 

You will make a good politican as you have an excellent grasp of the situation!

[skp1187]

i meant in an official way. Then again, applicants are not students - the schools don't really owe us anything. That's why, even if the tuition increase goes through, it may not save seats...who knows.

 

on that note, i had no idea tuition at UA was so cheap relative to other schools. In a way, had tuition been comparable to other schools across the country, maybe they would have had more money - but i'm sure there are regulations and laws that might have prevented this. Still, at 11-12k a year, its pretty damn cheap. I was under the impression it was around 15/16k a year.

 

Looks like tuition for medicine will not be going up

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/Tuition+hiked+Alberta+programs/2772892/story.html

[crimson]

I know some people are not going to agree with this, but i gotto say, what's going on is a game of chicken between the universities and the government, and the students are the victims. Sure the govt cut funding, i get that, and they are wrong for it. But the university has discretion on how to meet their financial responsiblities and they are choosing to cut med seats, in part for financial reasons which i get, but also (the controversial part) because they know that will raise the ire of the public, hopefully forcing the government to give them more money. Am i 100% sure of this? no. But i can't see this being 100% the governments fault. So, i hope that students not only pressure Stelmach when he's there, but also the higher ups on the university administration food chain. Certainly its not the medical faculty that wants seat cuts, those decisions are made very high up. And i think students need to be aware of that too. This is just my opinion as i can't see the university as 100% innocent here. There's plenty of blame to go around - i just hate being used in this fight between two parties, like bargaining chips.

 

 

Given that there are cuts to the funding to the U of A from the government, I don't see how they DON'T decrease class sizes. I'm finding that even our class (of 2012) is overcrowded at times (can't imagine what it's like for the first years!). For example, we had to have our first year practical exam canceled because they couldn't find enough examiners, although I'm not sure if this had to do with funding. And NOW there is going to be even less funding for preceptors, (both preclinical and clinical) resulting in bigger "small" group sizes in the classroom, and less time with preceptors on the wards. As I said before, with this withdrawal of the EPE, part of our class is now going through school unfunded.

 

In fact, the super-rapid expansion of class sizes over the past few years was mandated by the government (i.e. gov't tells school they must increase seats by X amount).

 

Keeping the class sizes the same won't do anyone any good.