Psychiatry

[SAcanada]

Can anyone tell me what the general feeling regarding psych residencies and psych as a career is canada is?

 

Is there a lot of work for psychiatrists?

[hastin11]

Can anyone tell me what the general feeling regarding psych residencies and psych as a career is canada is?

 

Is there a lot of work for psychiatrists?

 

-A lot of work, and relatively relaxed residency

-The negative of course being it is the lowest paid of any medical specialty

[SAcanada]

I've seen jobs advertised for psychiatrists for 250-400k per year. Is that considered the lowest paid medical speciality?

 

I'm sure if IM and surgeons do as good hours(less) as psychiatrists, then their average income will be considerably less. Sometimes you have to choose between overtime and lifestyle. I've been a doctor now for 3 years and I can tell you, you often feel like letting a few thousand drop off from your income just to be able to sleep in your own bed.

[hastin11]

I've seen jobs advertised for psychiatrists for 250-400k per year. Is that considered the lowest paid medical speciality?

 

I'm sure if IM and surgeons do as good hours(less) as psychiatrists, then their average income will be considerably less. Sometimes you have to choose between overtime and lifestyle. I've been a doctor now for 3 years and I can tell you, you often feel like letting a few thousand drop off from your income just to be able to sleep in your own bed.

 

Unfortunately, just because you have seen SOME psych jobs that pay a lot, the average does not represent that. The Canadian average is about 160k, and in Toronto, especially for new psychiatrists, it can be as low as 110k.

 

But I agree with you, the lifestyle in terms of hours is WAY better--but if you do enough research (I have done a lot on psych), my figures are accurate. Psychiatrists love their jobs, and there are many reasons for that--but these reasons are things like 'they find dealing with mental health fascinating'--its not that they get paid BADLY, but they are the lowest paid specialty.

[hastin11]

average starting psychiatry salary in ontario is in 250k range.its very comparable to GIM and pediatrics,neurology,geriatrics etc.it is NOT the lowest paid speciality at all.

 

How do you reconcile this with all the existing tables on physician salaries? IMO I will take the many tables of averages I have seen over anecdotal evidence.

 

Unless you guys have some other source that somehow disconfirms the existing evidence?

 

http://www.discoveryfinance.com/national-average-income-for-medical-doctors-canada.html

 

These figures are a quick example I found for averages. In addition to this, some money is taken away from this as overhead.

[NLengr]

I don't know much about the salaries, they aren't anymore than average from what I understand. I do know the lifestyle is excellent (hours etc.), but the job can be mentally taxing.

 

As for jobs, there are shortages everywhere. You can probably write your ticket in any city or town in Canada.

[apache]

i was at the u of t psych institute for med students, met the program director, department head, residency director, 15-20 shrinks from all different specialties, boatloads of residents, the consensus we got was they're paid on par with "average" paying specialties (neuro, endo, rheum, allergy etc.). certainly not gi, cardio, rads, or surg etc type money, but roughly 200-250 k working full time hours. if you sub-specialize in child psych or forensics this goes up to the 300 range (more in forensics if you move to states).

 

i've asked a lot of shrinks i've shadowed here as well, vaguely of course, because you always hear you don't make any money in psych, and generally i hear 180 k is the min and the medians about 250 k, if you want to put in 70 hours a week you can make big money but from what i notice most psychiatrists tend not to work over 50 hours a week, and many work part time, so im sure that influences the numbers. it's certainly not ROAD, gi, or cardio pay but the nature of the work is more laid back and it's easy to find a job in psych, so it's a trade off i suppose.

 

it's also notable that if you are willing to work in rural areas, the pay can get pretty sick, but that's true with almost any discipline that doesn't require working in a major centre.

 

I don't know much about the salaries, they aren't anymore than average from what I understand. I do know the lifestyle is excellent (hours etc.), but the job can be mentally taxing.

 

As for jobs, there are shortages everywhere. You can probably write your ticket in any city or town in Canada.

[Kenola]

Its also important to remember when you look at those numbers that they refer to direct billed dollars to the government. A lot of psychiatrists have a blended practice where a sizable chunk of their income comes in the form of a salary from whatever health region they work in.

 

If your health region publishes the salaries of their staff, you can even look up exactly what they get paid. The compensation can be quite significant!

[Guest copacetic]

folks, looking up doctors salaries on news pages that publish mean numbers is a terrible way to get information. There are alot of things that are not said, or accounted for in these numbers.

 

for example, the guy who wrote the article looks at optho and says that its pretty darn good. problem is the numbers dont tell you that opthos have overhead of somethign like 50-60%. national mean numbers mean essentially nothing.

[peachy]

Can anyone tell me what the general feeling regarding psych residencies and psych as a career is canada is?

 

Is there a lot of work for psychiatrists?

I'm a psychiatry resident. There is an enormous shortage of psychiatrists just about everywhere in Canada, so if you want to do private practice, you can open a practice anywhere you want, doing whatever you want to do (from general adult to more specialied populations, psychotherapy to general medication management, etc), and your practice will be full as fast as you let it get full.

 

Salary for private practice is pretty straightforward. The billing codes are available at http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/providers/program/ohip/sob/physserv/physserv_mn.html . Basically, it's per-hour billing, and you get $74.70 per "unit", where one unit is 20 minutes and 2 units is 46 minutes. You get a bit more for consultations and more specialized services. But basically you can bill $150/hour for as many hours as you decide to work. And overhead is really low, you basically need a chair and a couch. Many community psychiatrists don't bother with a secretary.

 

Salary for hospital positions is more complicated, and varies by the type of job and contract worked out with the hospital. I don't know the details, but have been told that it's quite lucrative! I'm not sure what the market is like, other than that there seem to be tons of recent grads in hospital positions so it doesn't seem like it's hard to get these jobs.

 

All that technical stuff aside, we have a lot of fun in psychiatry! Residency is very relaxed compared to other programs. It's a great career with a ton of flexibility to do what you love.