Dany Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 hey guys I get a question on the ranklist (the applicant's, not the program's)in carms: if my favourite programme (or specialty) is A, but the chance of getting in is fairly small, whereas for B I have a way better shot, should I rank A before B, or does it hurt that I don't rank B (the most hopeful one) at first, thus ending up with neither one? as far as I understand, you are matched to your highest ranked programme that offers you a spot, disregarding what that rank is. for example: in my ranklist of 15, the first 12 don't offer me a spot, whereas no,13 and no15 do, so I will be ranked to my 13th choice, which would be the same result if I had abandonned ranking the first 12 and ranked no.13 as first, and no.15 as 2nd... in a word, ranking those highly competitive yet unlikely programs ahead may not help, but DOES NOT HURT. tell me if I am correct thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleboman Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 hey guys I get a question on the ranklist (the applicant's, not the program's)in carms:if my favourite programme (or specialty) is A, but the chance of getting in is fairly small, whereas for B I have a way better shot, should I rank A before B, or does it hurt that I don't rank B (the most hopeful one) at first, thus ending up with neither one? as far as I understand, you are matched to your highest ranked programme that offers you a spot, disregarding what that rank is. for example: in my ranklist of 15, the first 12 don't offer me a spot, whereas no,13 and no15 do, so I will be ranked to my 13th choice, which would be the same result if I had abandonned ranking the first 12 and ranked no.13 as first, and no.15 as 2nd... in a word, ranking those highly competitive yet unlikely programs ahead may not help, but DOES NOT HURT. tell me if I am correct thanks!!! Exactly! It's extremely simple. you rank exactly in the order that you would want to go into. there is no strategy here at all except for doing it just the way you would want. that way carms works in your favour since the schools don't see you ranking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darla Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 for example: in my ranklist of 15, the first 12 don't offer me a spot, whereas no,13 and no15 do, so I will be ranked to my 13th choice, which would be the same result if I had abandonned ranking the first 12 and ranked no.13 as first, and no.15 as 2nd... in a word, ranking those highly competitive yet unlikely programs ahead may not help, but DOES NOT HURT. tell me if I am correct thanks!!! true, provided that your 13-15 spots aren't already full of applicants who ranked it higher than you and whom the programs ranked the only way a higher ranked program ahead of the less competitive will hurt is if other applicants see the less competitive as their preferred choice and rank it higher, filling the spots before you get that low on your list sorry if this adds stress to the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 hey guys I get a question on the ranklist (the applicant's, not the program's)in carms:if my favourite programme (or specialty) is A, but the chance of getting in is fairly small, whereas for B I have a way better shot, should I rank A before B, or does it hurt that I don't rank B (the most hopeful one) at first, thus ending up with neither one? as far as I understand, you are matched to your highest ranked programme that offers you a spot, disregarding what that rank is. for example: in my ranklist of 15, the first 12 don't offer me a spot, whereas no,13 and no15 do, so I will be ranked to my 13th choice, which would be the same result if I had abandonned ranking the first 12 and ranked no.13 as first, and no.15 as 2nd... in a word, ranking those highly competitive yet unlikely programs ahead may not help, but DOES NOT HURT. tell me if I am correct thanks!!! You are correct. Many people get confused with this, but you definitely got it right. As you said, rank your real first choice first, and your real second choice second, and so on. There is no downside to doing it this way. It doesn't matter what others rank first or how competitive a program is. I could have ranked derm programs in my first 10 choices, and given how I have no interest in being a dermatologist I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten in any of them, and would have matched to my 11th choice, being the family program I ended up getting into and wanted in the first place. Same end result exactly, wouldn't have decreased my chances of getting in my chosen family med program (but would cost me lots of $ for extra applications). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 true, provided that your 13-15 spots aren't already full of applicants who ranked it higher than you and whom the programs ranked the only way a higher ranked program ahead of the less competitive will hurt is if other applicants see the less competitive as their preferred choice and rank it higher, filling the spots before you get that low on your list sorry if this adds stress to the process Hm, I dissagree. I don't think it would hurt, even in that case. You either get into the competitive program, or you don't. If you do, of course by default you're out of the running for the less competitive one, and yay, you got your first choice. If you don't, then you're out of the running for the more competitive one, and it's as if the less competitive one is now your first choice. It's the same as if you had never ranked that more competitive one. Ie : Program A is super selective. It has one spot only. It ranks like this : Candidate # 1 2 3 Program B is the less competitive. It also has only one spot, for the sake of my example. It ranks applicants like this : Candidate # 1 2 3 Carms's computer will look at program B's first choice, and say "did that candidate rank it #1?" If so, it's a match. If not, they look at what the candidate did rank as #1. Let's say it's program A. Good, it's a match (because they're each other's first choice). That means candidate 1 is matched to program A, and is out of the running for all other programs, including program B. Program A only had the one spot, so it's now full, out of the running for all other candidates. Program B's ranking is now 2, 3. Carm's computer will now look at program B's second choice. If candidate 2 ranked it #1, it's a match. If not, who did candidate 2 rank as #1? Let's say it's program A. He's didn't match there because it's full, so carms will look at his second choice. If it's program B, he's in, because it's now his first choice, since program A's out. And he's now program B's first choice, since candidate 1's out. They've become each other's first choice, so it's a match. Candidate 2 didn't get into the more competitive program, but ranking it first didn't hurt. It doesn't matter what candidate 3's rankings were, he didn't get into program B because program B preferred another candidate who was still in the running, ie hadn't been matched to anything he ranked higher. I don't know if this helps or makes any sense at all, I've had a hard time explaining this in the past, but the bottom line is, just like CARMS says, rank the programs in order of preference, there's no downside to ranking a competitive one first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 This is works in favour of the student, but this must mean that it doesn't work in favour of the program. If that's the case, then do programs rank candidates they think they can get higher than those candidates that they know would rather go to another program, even though they would prefer the latter? It works equally in the favor of both. Both benefit from ranking in their order of preference. (However, I'm not sure all the programs actually understand the ranking system, since so many ppl seem confused about it, so maybe they do use such a strategy! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 true, provided that your 13-15 spots aren't already full of applicants who ranked it higher than you and whom the programs ranked the only way a higher ranked program ahead of the less competitive will hurt is if other applicants see the less competitive as their preferred choice and rank it higher, filling the spots before you get that low on your list sorry if this adds stress to the process Yeah sorry but you got it wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleboman Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yeah sorry but you got it wrong lol........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I mean I don't have to justify my claim since Julie did a pretty good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I mean I don't have to justify my claim since Julie did a pretty good job. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darla Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Yeah sorry but you got it wrong Um, no I didn't. I just wasn't as thorough as Julie was as explaining how it works. If you need me to explain in more detail how a candidate who is ranked by a program and ranks that program higher than you gets it over you, I will happily do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Um, no I didn't. I just wasn't as thorough as Julie was as explaining how it works. If you need me to explain in more detail how a candidate who is ranked by a program and ranks that program higher than you gets it over you, I will happily do so Let's say you rank ophtalmology number 1 and family med number 2, and someone else (person X) ranks that same fam med residency number 1. If ophtalmology ranks you well and you get into the program, that's the end. Now if you don't get into ophtalmology, it doesn't matter that person X ranked family higher than you ranked it. If you're both ranked by the program you'll both get in, if person X is ranked way higher than you by the program she'll get in and not you, and if you're ranked higher than person X by the program you will get in. The fact that you ranked ophtalmology before family doesn't make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Bottom line: it doesn't hurt to rank more competitive programs before less competitive ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetballKing Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 true, provided that your 13-15 spots aren't already full of applicants who ranked it higher than you and whom the programs ranked the only way a higher ranked program ahead of the less competitive will hurt is if other applicants see the less competitive as their preferred choice and rank it higher, filling the spots before you get that low on your list sorry if this adds stress to the process Ya I think you got this wrong as well. It doesn't matter if you rank program X at, say, #15 while 10 other applicants all ranked program X as #1. As long as program Xs rank you higher than the other 10 applicants, you'll get that program (if none of your first 14 choices worked out) over the other 10. The only time any of the other 10 applicants will get the spot is if you got into one of your first 14 choices. I think you forgot that when a program ranks applicants, they give a list of #1-15 as well, rather than saying 'we are happy to take any of these guys, and will take the one that ranked us the highest'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Ya I think you got this wrong as well. It doesn't matter if you rank program X at, say, #15 while 10 other applicants all ranked program X as #1. As long as program Xs rank you higher than the other 10 applicants, you'll get that program (if none of your first 14 choices worked out) over the other 10. The only time any of the other 10 applicants will get the spot is if you got into one of your first 14 choices. I think you forgot that when a program ranks applicants, they give a list of #1-15 as well, rather than saying 'we are happy to take any of these guys, and will take the one that ranked us the highest'. Do programs see what you ranked where? Or do they just guess based on your elective schedule what you're gunning for/backing up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Do programs see what you ranked where? Or do they just guess based on your elective schedule what you're gunning for/backing up with? No that is not visible to them, nor are their choices visible to you - as you point out they can infer somethings of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darla Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ya I think you got this wrong as well. It doesn't matter if you rank program X at, say, #15 while 10 other applicants all ranked program X as #1. As long as program Xs rank you higher than the other 10 applicants, you'll get that program (if none of your first 14 choices worked out) over the other 10. The only time any of the other 10 applicants will get the spot is if you got into one of your first 14 choices. I think you forgot that when a program ranks applicants, they give a list of #1-15 as well, rather than saying 'we are happy to take any of these guys, and will take the one that ranked us the highest'. I'm sorry, but no, that's not how it works. The CaRMS match is set up to be learner centred, i.e. if you pick a program and they rank you *at all* and there isn't anyone else who also picked the program ranked by that program ahead of you, you're in. Learners' preference trumps program's. Regardless of what the program ranks you as, as long as it fills up with applicants that have ranked the program higher than you before you get to (using your example) your 15th choice, you will need to move onto your 16th choice even if they ranked you number one. The example on the CaRMS website here explains this very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I'm sorry, but no, that's not how it works. The CaRMS match is set up to be learner centred, i.e. if you pick a program and they rank you *at all* and there isn't anyone else who also picked the program ranked by that program ahead of you, you're in. Learners' preference trumps program's. Regardless of what the program ranks you as, as long as it fills up with applicants that have ranked the program higher than you before you get to (using your example) your 15th choice, you will need to move onto your 16th choice even if they ranked you number one. The example on the CaRMS website here explains this very well. Actually, that link makes it sound like you'd get your 15th choice (in the example you described) if they ranked you number one. If it is your top choice remaining, you are tentatively matched to it unless the program gets filled with people that also have it as their top choice, whom the program ranked higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gb35 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I should add, that the more I read about CaRMS, the more it actually seems kind of straightforward: rank lots of things and in the order you'd most like to do them. The match then keeps trying to get you your top remaining pick, assuming the program hasn't already filled up with people it liked more than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm sorry, but no, that's not how it works. The CaRMS match is set up to be learner centred, i.e. if you pick a program and they rank you *at all* and there isn't anyone else who also picked the program ranked by that program ahead of you, you're in. Learners' preference trumps program's. Regardless of what the program ranks you as, as long as it fills up with applicants that have ranked the program higher than you before you get to (using your example) your 15th choice, you will need to move onto your 16th choice even if they ranked you number one. The example on the CaRMS website here explains this very well. incorrect. if you are down to your 15th choice, and that program has ranked you #1 - even if all their spots are filled up, you will bump the lowest ranked person currently matched into that program and you will match to choice #15, even if the person you bumped ranked that program first. carms will then try to match the bumped person to their second ranked program ...and so on. carms doesnt try to have the most number of people get their first choice. but it works in the best interest of the applicants so that most applicants match to their highest choice possible. in this scenario, the applicant's 15th choice is more preferable than 16th. why would it make this applicant match to their 16th choice when they were ranked higher than other applicants at their 15th choice program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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