materialgirl86 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Hello everyone! I am a third year student from the University of Toronto applying for vascular surgery in the fall. I just wanted to let everyone know that the Vascular Surgery direct entry program will be available for the first time for medical students graduating in 2012 (Current CC3s). Toronto will be having two spots starting 2012. If you have any questions please post them and I'll try to answer as best as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addy K Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Interesting, so are the first 2/3 years just like a general surgical residency program than 2/3 years of focusing on vascular surgery? I'm currently doing some research with a Plastic Surgeon and really like it. One of the things I like about Plastics is the diversity of surgical procedures, is that how vascular surgery is? What would you mainly focus on, or can it be anything related to the vascular system? Do they also do microvasulcar surgeries like plastic surgeons? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
materialgirl86 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The new residency program is aimed at producing "vascular specialists". That means you get training in vascular imaging/diagnosis (non-invasive vascular lab), vascular medicine (hematology/stroke neurology etc), interventional vascular radiology (peripheral angioplasting/stenting/EVARs), and open vascular surgery (AAA, fem-distal bypass, carotid endarterectomies, dialysis access etc). The first 2 years of all surgical subspecialties (plastics/urology/ENT etc) are pretty similar at UofT. You would rotate through gen surg/icu/and other core surgical specialties. The final 2 years of residency will be identical to the current 2 year fellowship curriculum - 15 months of vascular surgery, 9 months of cardiac/thoracic/vascular lab/cardiology or IR. The third year is what is going to be variable depending on the institution. Programs haven't published their specific rotation schedules as yet but probably will when they submit to CaRMS (September this year). Vascular surgery doesn't do microvascular surgery - at least not that I've seen. That's usually left to the plastic surgeons. But I was interested in plastics at first too because of the delicate/skilled procedures and I really liked microvascular too and did some research in reperfusion injury stuff. But the aspects of plastics that initially drew me actually tie really well with vascular surgery. On top of that, vascular has more medical management because you deal with older sick patients and a wider array of treatment options because of all the interventional procedures which was really appealing to me. Hope I didn't blabber too much, I just wanted to answer all your questions. Let me know if you have any other questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addy K Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thanks a lot, that sounds great. I wonder how competitive it will be? It's only 2 spots, but it is a new residency so I guess there is no way of really knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuantum Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Looks like the new program will be really great. Best part about it too is that all you will need is 5 years of clinical training to start working. So...no fellowships. Also, you are getting a really diverse skill set as basic training. All the best to those applying...great field you are going into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
materialgirl86 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Kuantum - do you know if UBC has confirmed if they are starting up their vascular surgery direct entry program for 2012? In terms of how competitive it is, it will be difficult to know for 2012 since it is the first year. However, in the US they have had this program since 2006 and it is one of the most competitive specialties. It's about as competitive as the other boutique specialties like plastics/derm/ophtho with 10:1 ratio of applicants to quota. I guess we'll see what happens in Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
materialgirl86 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hello fellow med students! Just wanted to let you know that UofT is starting a vascular surgery interest group (V-SIG) to help address any questions you might have about pursuing a career in vascular surgery (especially now that the direct entry program is officially a go! It's even on the CaRMS site now!). If you want to learn more, you can visit the facebook page: "University of Toronto Vascular Surgery Interest Group" or send any questions to vsig.toronto@gmail.com or PM me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuss Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would be cautious about a direct entry vascular program. It's fine if you want a job in a big centre, but in many regional hospitals they will want you to be able to take general surgery call and cover general surgery patients and with a direct entry program you will not be certified to do this. Also, many vascular surgeons still do some bread and butter gen surg to help pay the bills (colonoscopy, hernias, lab choles, etc.). You won't be qualified to do these. Doing the 2 year vascular fellowship after general surgery leaves many many more options open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
materialgirl86 Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I just wanted to post a quick update on the new vascular surgery program. This year there will be 9 spots open for the 2012 match. The participating programs and quota are: UBC (1) Laval (1) Montreal (1) McGill (1) McMaster (1) Ottawa (1) UWO (1) Toronto (2) In response to tuss's comment, I think people in our year have to be a bit careful if they plan to pursue the 5+2 route since vascular fellowships will be weaning out over the next few years as the 0+5 route emerges (as it has in the US). The real impetus is the divergence between general surgery/vascular surgery practices and the fellowship route may not be as available for medical students graduating this year and applying for fellowships for 2017. Due to the increase in endovascular/interventional vascular procedures and decrease in open procedures, vascular surgery services are increasingly centralized due to the expense of supporting an endovascular/interventional program. I think the days of the general surgeon/vascular surgeon out in the community are numbered and for new graduates who are planning for a long career in vascular surgery, a 0+5 route would provide you with more vascular specific training than the current 5+2 route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I would be cautious about a direct entry vascular program. It's fine if you want a job in a big centre, but in many regional hospitals they will want you to be able to take general surgery call and cover general surgery patients and with a direct entry program you will not be certified to do this. Also, many vascular surgeons still do some bread and butter gen surg to help pay the bills (colonoscopy, hernias, lab choles, etc.). You won't be qualified to do these. Doing the 2 year vascular fellowship after general surgery leaves many many more options open. Hmm I strongly disagree with this. In Quebec, general surgeons who work in communty hospitals don't do any vascular and vasc surg is covered by vascular surgeons who don't do any general surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hmm I strongly disagree with this. In Quebec, general surgeons who work in communty hospitals don't do any vascular and vasc surg is covered by vascular surgeons who don't do any general surgery. I don't understand what you're disagreeing with. You limited your discussion to community hospitals in Quebec and (s)he referenced "many regional hospitals". You're probably both right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I don't understand what you're disagreeing with. You limited your discussion to community hospitals in Quebec and (s)he referenced "many regional hospitals". You're probably both right. According to my experience in Quebec ( 1/4 of the country in terms of population with 4 of the biggest medical schools), I don't think that doing a 5 years vascular residency is a risk at all. That's what I'm disagreeing with. Also, with this 5 years programs, the vascular fellowships are probably going to disappear (this is an educated guess). Therefore if you want to do vascular surgery, apply to the 5 years programs and you'll have no regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I have a hard time imagining many med students feeling confident of that kind of choice in fourth year. And I think that moving to more direct-entry subspecialty resident programs is a marked step BACKWARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
materialgirl86 Posted October 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I have a hard time imagining many med students feeling confident of that kind of choice in fourth year. And I think that moving to more direct-entry subspecialty resident programs is a marked step BACKWARD. I'm curious why you think this is a marked step backward? In an era where treatment options are becoming increasingly complex, the sub-specialization of general surgery is a necessary reality. If you complete an entire residency in general surgery and only have 1-2 years of training in the branch of surgery that will eventually make up the bulk of your practice, the training is unbalanced and does not match your training needs as a staff surgeon. I also think that 4th year students have a strong tradition of selecting other surgical subspecialties that used to be branches of general surgery including plastics/urology/cardiac surgery etc with confidence. Vascular surgery is a new program, so many medical students don't have exposure as yet but that will change in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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