Should I even bother applying to Irish Schools with a 3.0 GPA?

[lomalinda]

I have a very low 2.8 GPA currently. However, my fourth year is coming up and it seems I will have around a 3.0 by the end April next year.

 

I'm writing my MCAT still, and I might get around a 30.

 

From threads, it seems I can't even apply with lower than a 3.0 to Ireland.

 

So after I get a 3.0 in around Mary 2012 (next year), what kind of chance do I have at irish schools considering I'll have around a 30 MCAT.

 

I'll have to do an extra year just to apply there though next year. I could go to the caribs starting next year though.

 

Thanks!

 

PS. I hear Irish schools aren't great with matching back in Canada with most specialties. But from threads, it seems it's almost guaranteed that one can get a General Medicine residency in Canada from Ireland.

[bloh]

A more pertinent question is what's keeping you at <3.0GPA and how will you stand the rigorous medical education curriculum?

[lomalinda]

My gpa is really low because of personal problems in early undergrad.

 

To be honest, I'm around a ~3.5-3.6 GPA student. That's what I got when I tried. I believe I am definitely capable to get through med school curriculums.

 

That's why I wanted some answers to my questions.

 

Thanks.

[keepontrying]

Your gpa is likely too low for Irish schools, and 30 MCAT is a good score but not an amazing score that will cover your gpa issue. Carribbean, however, maybe an option. If I were you, I would do a second UG to expand your options to some Canadian schools as well as Irish/Aussie schools if you do not mind going overseas. Make sure you do well on MCAT as well. 30 seems like a magic number but that's more for people who have 3.6 gpa in the states. Hope this helps.

[ShootingStar]

Have you thought about taking a 5th year and applying to Western and Queen's?

[IamSuperDoctor]

I think if you manage to get an MCAT close to mid 30's you will have a good shot.

[sshaik25]

I am planning on applying with a 3.0. I talked to a friend of mine that got accepted in 2011 and he said he had a GPA of 2.9 with a mid 30 MCAT score. He told me that as long as I did well on the MCAT I'll definitely get considered.

[concernedmedstudent]

I don't see why you wouldn't get into Ireland or Aus - they only want your $$. These schools aren't that concerned if their international students are qualified candidates that may one day become a good physicians. And why should they? Its not that likely you will practice unsupervised medicine on the citizens of their country in the future. As someone who spent a few months in an international school before coming to my senses doing a little bit of extra work and getting into a Canadian school, I can tell you that the application process to these international schools is total joke. Im not sure why they even request to see your transcript, a good ol fashion credit cheque would be more beneficial to them. No wonder societies level of respect for the medical profession is beginning to dwindle.

[leviathan]

I don't see why you wouldn't get into Ireland or Aus - they only want your $$. These schools aren't that concerned if their international students are qualified candidates that may one day become a good physicians. And why should they? Its not that likely you will practice unsupervised medicine on the citizens of their country in the future. As someone who spent a few months in an international school before coming to my senses doing a little bit of extra work and getting into a Canadian school, I can tell you that the application process to these international schools is total joke. Im not sure why they even request to see your transcript, a good ol fashion credit cheque would be more beneficial to them. No wonder societies level of respect for the medical profession is beginning to dwindle.

It sounds like you have little faith in the licensing / credentialing process of Canadian physicians. If you are a concerned med student you should perhaps be redirecting your attention to that. Just some food for thought.

[concernedmedstudent]

It sounds like you have little faith in the licensing / credentialing process of Canadian physicians. If you are a concerned med student you should perhaps be redirecting your attention to that. Just some food for thought.

 

I have complete faith in the licensing/credentialing program for Canadian students, but I do not have faith in them licensing and credentialing students from across the world all of whom have gone through various curricula with varying degrees of clinical experience. This is an absolutely massive task that would require many years of development and $$$$. It simply isn't efficient. For this reason we are left with a sub par system that works only because it has the luxury of only taking the cream of the international crop. Low acceptance rates can be a good thing despite what every pre-med believes.

[leviathan]

I have complete faith in the licensing/credentialing program for Canadian students, but I do not have faith in them licensing and credentialing students from across the world all of whom have gone through various curricula with varying degrees of clinical experience. This is an absolutely massive task that would require many years of development and $$$$. It simply isn't efficient. For this reason we are left with a sub par system that works only because it has the luxury of only taking the cream of the international crop. Low acceptance rates can be a good thing despite what every pre-med believes.

Everyone writes the exact same exam. How is it good for one group and not another? Especially given the low requirements to pass in Canadian medical schools.

[concernedmedstudent]

Everyone writes the exact same exam. How is it good for one group and not another? Especially given the low requirements to pass in Canadian medical schools.

 

You just don't get it do you? Its not about one exam. Sure we all probably wrote the MCAT too. Canadian students are granted positions in publicly funded residency positions after four years and hundreds of evaluations in a Canadian accredited program. This isn't about one exam. The bar is set relatively low on that one exam because they have 100+ other evaluations over the past four years that they can depend on. If medicine were as simple as passing one exam we wouldn't be having this argument. In fact, we could all go to Kaplan read through a few text books and be doctors (yikes if this were the case we'd have a lot more people wind up like Michael Jackson with Caribbean doctors who think they are rockstars because they passed a few standardized exams!!)

[CdnatWayne]

Just wanted to point out that Conrad Murray actually went to a US school. Meharry College in Tennessee, did IM residency at Loma Linda (California) and Cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona.

[future_doc]

Well, he let greed get in the way and he forget even the basics.

[leviathan]

This isn't about one exam. The bar is set relatively low on that one exam because they have 100+ other evaluations over the past four years that they can depend on.

I already mentioned the bar is low for passing in Canadian schools as well. All medical students pass hundreds of evaluations regardless of where they went to medical school. Many medical schools outside of Canada have much more difficult examinations and less tolerance for failure, so your point works against you. This is overall not an issue because the majority of students in Canadian med schools are both intellectually capable of medicine and they are hard working. However there are many that either aren't cut out for medicine or completely veg out once they get their acceptance letter. These people still get an MD and still pass the LMCCs.

 

If there's an issue with competency then we have to address the evaluations of new doctors whether they are CMGs or IMGs.

 

If medicine were as simple as passing one exam we wouldn't be having this argument. In fact, we could all go to Kaplan read through a few text books and be doctors (yikes if this were the case we'd have a lot more people wind up like Michael Jackson with Caribbean doctors who think they are rockstars because they passed a few standardized exams!!)

You just proved my own point. Conrad Murray is an American trained physician. If he went through 100s of examinations in medical school and you have absolute faith in the system, how did he get his medical degree and not realize that you can't give a drug which induces apnea in people even at low doses and then leave him unattended? Either we need to make the examinations in medical school more difficult, give fewer second chances for failure, or make our licensing exams at the end more difficult.

 

Bottom line, if you are a concerned med student, you should be focusing your attention at the real problem being an inadequate evaluation system. If it was adequate then we wouldn't have poor doctors entering our system whether they were from Canadian or international schools. If it was adequate we could accept doctors from anywhere in the world, because if they were not good enough to practice medicine they would not be able to pass that exam. A simple solution would be to simply raise the pass threshold on our current LMCC exams and require more simulated exams.

[concernedmedstudent]

They may have passed 100s of exams in other countries with varying curricula and objectives. My point is that you cannot compare medical schools in different countries that are accredited in different ways with different values, health economics, standards etc.

 

I agree with you Lev that it is an issue of evaluation but I disagree that it is a simple solution that one or two exams can fix and allow you to compare students from Iran, Iraq, Australia, India, China, Caribeean etc. These are all very different countries with very different medical and education systems. Sure all graduates will know where the ACL is and what glaucoma is and will probably get the same answers on a standardized exam but that doesn't qualify them to be valuable physicians practicing within the Canadian system.

 

Anyhow, I can understand that coming from Saba you would like to come back to Canada and I am sure you will make or are a fantastic doctor, but the bar needs to remain high for international graduates who have yet to prove themselves in a Canadian system... in the end thats all Im saying. We need IMGs in Canada but we only need the very best when there are thousands to chose from!

[leviathan]

We do agree on some stuff. But not all Canadians have proven themselves within the system, yet still obtain MDs. In general I think the system works, but I just kinda feel like we're throwing stones in a glass house here.

[rogerroger]

I have complete faith in the licensing/credentialing program for Canadian students, but I do not have faith in them licensing and credentialing students from across the world all of whom have gone through various curricula with varying degrees of clinical experience. This is an absolutely massive task that would require many years of development and $$$$. It simply isn't efficient. For this reason we are left with a sub par system that works only because it has the luxury of only taking the cream of the international crop. Low acceptance rates can be a good thing despite what every pre-med believes.!

 

 

Just one comment...

 

I have worked with several IMGs from across both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. The ones that match into Canadian programs are solid. These guys obviously killed themselves trying to get a residency position. They know their stuff as well as the next CMG.

 

Just like there is the occasional questionable CMG, I have no doubt you can have a few questionable IMGs. But the system is working. There is a lot to the system, the MCC exam is only a small part of it.

 

For those that don't get in, well they knew the risks, not really our problem. Harsh, but true. What matters is that the system protects those whom it is mandated to protect, Canadians.