Emergency Med match 2012 for an IMG

[wildcard]

Hey all,

 

A few questions for all the experts out there on Emerg Med match 2012 especially for an IMG.

 

- what's the match like in terms of competitiveness for an IMG? super competitive? should an IMG even bother?

- how much does the MCCEE and LMCC I scores factor in? Does it function as a tie breaker between two candidates generally? Or selection committees couldn't care less as long as you've passed?

- how much does having done clinical research in Emerg at the time of the Carms app help? a lot? little? not at all?

- will having clinical research LoRs be helpful even though they're not clinical experience LoRs?

- for what other fields will Emerg clinical research experience be helpful for the match?

- how much is an IMG disadvantaged if he/she graduated in 2011 and is applying for the 2012 match (ie: one year out)?

 

That's all I can think of now! There'll be more to come!

 

Thanks in advance.

[failingtothrive]

- ER match for even canadian grads is SUPER competitive, and the specialty is only increasing in popularity. Unless this year there are any dedicated spots for IMGs in first round, your chances are slim to none for second round (there won't be any spots in it!)

- I'm not sure about scores factoring in for IMGs. We write the LMCCI after we get matched...so they don't matter. I'm sure requirements vary by program and you'll have to look that up on the Carms site

- I'd say that for ER anything you do helps, including research

- a clinical research reference letter likely means nothing, why would you waste one of your reference letters on something that won't qualify what type of physician you'll be? you're applying to be a physician, not a researcher (mostly).

- speaking generally I don't think research is the #1 thing every program is looking for! I think research in any field would be helpful.

- one year out doesn't matter that much, be prepared to explain why.

 

In summary....I'd apply to family and plan on 2+1. Unless something weird happens WRT the 5 year emerg trend, everything will fill up in first round.

[BoyInTheBubble]

You are 12.34567% disadvantaged because of your graduating year.

 

Unless there are some PD's trolling the boards, most of these questions will lead to silly answers that you will take as you see fit! Also, each program might view things differently - eg the EE as a hurdle to get an interview then it doesn't matter, or as actual factor. If you two candidates are the "same" except for exam scores - odds are the person with better scores wins the tie-breaker.

 

If I tell you, "don't bother applying" will you really listen?! If you answered yes, don't bother. If you think you have a reasonably competitive application, you may as well apply. Clinical research in emerge will likely help your application - but at this point, you likely have it or you don't. Related research > any research > no research. A really amazing LoR (or research) is always helpful, even if it's from a different field.

 

There are fewer than 10 spots, it's not "easy". Make yourself look as good as you are, and run your own race.

[Renin]

Mmm; what province are you thinking of applying to? Like failingtothrive stated, it will be very rare that there will be any spots available in 2nd match. You might get lucky though; who knows!

[wildcard]

Mmm; what province are you thinking of applying to? Like failingtothrive stated, it will be very rare that there will be any spots available in 2nd match. You might get lucky though; who knows!

 

Which province should I aim for? I'm not hell bent on staying in a particular place in Canada....I'd be happy anywhere.

[wildcard]

You are 12.34567% disadvantaged because of your graduating year.

 

Unless there are some PD's trolling the boards, most of these questions will lead to silly answers that you will take as you see fit! Also, each program might view things differently - eg the EE as a hurdle to get an interview then it doesn't matter, or as actual factor. If you two candidates are the "same" except for exam scores - odds are the person with better scores wins the tie-breaker.

 

If I tell you, "don't bother applying" will you really listen?! If you answered yes, don't bother. If you think you have a reasonably competitive application, you may as well apply. Clinical research in emerge will likely help your application - but at this point, you likely have it or you don't. Related research > any research > no research. A really amazing LoR (or research) is always helpful, even if it's from a different field.

 

There are fewer than 10 spots, it's not "easy". Make yourself look as good as you are, and run your own race.

 

Good point.

 

So, say I have a fantastic LoR from Surgery...that comments on my clinical abilities/skills etc, then I can still use it for any non-surgical field I'm applying to?

[ploughboy]

I'm certainly no PD, but I am an frcpc emerg resident in one of the larger programs in Canada, and I have been involved in file review for CaRMS.

 

I'll do my best to answer what I can answer, but to protect the integrity of the process I cannot or will not answer some of your questions even if I know the answer to them. And some of your questions I just plain don't know the answer to!

 

A lot of what I'm going to say comes more from my own experience applying as a CMG than it does from my minor involvement with the selection process

 

 

- what's the match like in terms of competitiveness for an IMG? super competitive? should an IMG even bother?

 

It's very competitive. There were a large number of applicants for the 3 IMG spots in our program (and I think that's the most IMG spots in one program in the country). A small percentage of those were interviewed, and obviously only some of the ones who interviewed were accepted.

 

Should you bother? There's really little downside, other than the time and money involved in applying. You can't win if you don't play.

 

 

- how much does the MCCEE and LMCC I scores factor in? Does it function as a tie breaker between two candidates generally? Or selection committees couldn't care less as long as you've passed?

 

I can't say/won't say/don't know.

 

 

- how much does having done clinical research in Emerg at the time of the Carms app help? a lot? little? not at all?

 

In general for CaRMS, research in your field is a good thing as it demonstrates interest in the field. There are of course a lot of other ways to demonstrate interest, notably by tailoring your clinical electives to the field you want to match to.

 

It's also not just a question of having "done" research. Like applying to any other residency, like applying to med school, like anybody else applying for any sort of job in business or industry, it's how you "spin" or "pitch" your experience. A one-liner in your personal statement that says "Ya, I did research in A and it was fun" doesn't have nearly the oomph of saying:

 

"I did research in A, which showed B. While doing this, I learned C about myself, my approach to patients with condition D expanded greatly and I also improved my time management skills as I was also doing E, F and G. I hope to carry the knowledge and lessons I learned from this into residency, where I want to expand the scope of my research to look at H".

 

I totally just made that last paragraph up, and I'm post-call delirious, but can you see how that sort of framing would make you look much more attractive to anybody looking to select you for any sort of job, not just an EM residency position.

 

Of course you have to be able to truthfully fill in A-H.

 

But ya, research is generally a good thing especially if you think research is going to be a part of your career during and after residency. Research is one of the things that separates the 5-year programs from the 3-year programs, although there are certainly ccfp-em docs who do lots of research and frcpc docs who couldn't care less about doing research.

 

 

- will having clinical research LoRs be helpful even though they're not clinical experience LoRs?

 

I can't say/won't say/don't know.

 

 

- for what other fields will Emerg clinical research experience be helpful for the match?

 

Really, anything that involves acutely sick patients. Hard to say specifically without knowing what your research was in, but off the top of my head anaesthesia, maybe GenSx/Trauma Sx, maybe internal medicine/ICU.

 

On the other hand, if you were looking at a specific body part or non-acute clinical problem whatever you could probably pitch your application to that specialty as well (bogus example: if you were looking at whether patients with nosebleeds preferred to have a foley catheter jammed up their nose and inflated vs getting a dose of intranasal cocaine and found -- surprise surprise -- patients prefer the cocaine, you might be able to spin that into part of an ENT application assuming the rest of your application is also congruent with wanting to become an ENT doc)

 

- how much is an IMG disadvantaged if he/she graduated in 2011 and is applying for the 2012 match (ie: one year out)?

 

I can't say/won't say/don't know.

 

 

Hope that helps. Sorry for being vague in places (and no, I won't be more specific in private communication) Feel free to ask any other questions here in public, keeping in mind that you might get equally nonspecific answers...

[leviathan]

OP was referring to first-round matches as there are a few dedicated IMG spots. I know the people who match EM from my school usually have a background in EM either as former paramedics, ER nurses, or both. They usually had research too.

 

For what it's worth, I don't know specifically about EM residencies, but I've heard (only rumors, can't verify this) some other residencies have narrowed down the IMG applicant pool by only taking the applicants with the top MCCEE scores. So if they are planning to interview 50 applicants, they'll take the top 50 MCCEE scores and offer them interviews.

[wildcard]

Thanks ploughboy and others for sharing your opinions! Much appreciated!

[BoyInTheBubble]

Good point.

 

So, say I have a fantastic LoR from Surgery...that comments on my clinical abilities/skills etc, then I can still use it for any non-surgical field I'm applying to?

 

I have been told by PD's that a good reference letter is exactly that. Obviously, in your case having a good reference letter from an ER doc is ideal, but you might not be able to get three (or any?) as an IMG (or if you got interested in it late....whatever).

 

It's a tough spot to decide whether to use a possibly 'average' letter from an ER doc (say you didn't work with them THAT much) versus a stellar letter from a doctor you spent a significant chunk of time with. Presumably, they will all comment on your abilities, skills, hard work, etc and most of those things are general in content. If you are polite and hard working on CTU, you are likely going to be polite and hard working in the ED.

 

You want your letters to be relevant (same/related field), familiar (they know the writer), and good (because you are!). All 3 may not be attainable, but it won't rule out.

[wildcard]

I found my old thread!

 

So, to build on this: I got an EM interview. Now for more questions.

 

1 - I know this field is very competitive - numbers wise how competitive is it? ie: how many candidates are interviewed for one EM spot (roughly)?

 

2 - Apart from the usual (why EM, future goals, your strengths/weaknesses) what type of Qs should you be prepared for? Would you be asked clinical Qs? I've heard some IMGs been asked clinical scenarios (for FM, IM interviews) - is this normal practice?

 

3 - What type of Qs should you (as the interviewee) ask the committee? Smthg specific about their program - but what? Most curriculum is outlined in fair detail on Carms etc.

 

4 - Interview attire? Color - good/bad?

 

ANY advice from those who have been through this would be VERY much appreciated!

 

Thank you!