filter105 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I was reading Canadian doctor blog just now and was surprised to find that some of the residents have 100k debt! How does this work? I have heard of many medical student investing with their LOC (which in case I heard very good returns in the end ie.// condo in toronto) and subsidization from government is pretty generous (compared to going to med school in US, in which case, two year tuition would be 100k ) so I don't understand how students can accumulate that much debt... What's the realistic budget/debt for medicine + residency? I would appreciate it if anyone gives their $0.02 on this! thank you;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 That is a very reasonable figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Well, in my case I am not being supported by anyone and have no savings, so I'm looking at around 20k per year in tuition alone, which is 80k right there. With living expenses and other stuff that comes up I'm probably looking at being about 150k in the hole by the time I'm done. That includes LoC + government loans, but they all have to be paid back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filter105 Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 ah I see, that sounds reasonable. However, aren't there government grant (if you are applying for osap)? and isn't it from your 4th year (during your clerkship) you get little bit of stipend? (how much is it by the way?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes, part of what the govt gives you is not repayable. I have no idea what residents receive. I too am 100% reliant upon LOC and what the govt provides for all my expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 ah I see,that sounds reasonable. However, aren't there government grant (if you are applying for osap)? and isn't it from your 4th year (during your clerkship) you get little bit of stipend? (how much is it by the way?) average cost all things considered at Western is close to 40K a car. 20 of that is tutition, but then there is room/board for the year, books, equipments, almost certainly a car to reach all of the distant sites your training is on, paying for electives away from home and even the application for electives is costly, the carms interview process etc, etc. OSAP caps at max at 3500 per term so you get around 15K a year and pay back 1/2 or in 12 month years you get closer to 20K and pay back 10K. There is limited time or sense in working in the summer for solely cash (if it is research you want to do and the money is bonus well that is great ). OSAP therefore generally pays less than 1/2. YOu do get in Ontario 9K in 3rd/4th year but that often gets eaten up with electives and interview expenses (new clothing, flying around the country over 3 weeks, hotels etc, etc). There are bursaries/scholarships but you may or may not get one. The rest is LOC. Oh there of course a little bit of interest you pay as well of course on that LOC as you go along. Even if you have no debit going into medical school leaving with 100K in the hole is not that unusual - it can be much higher which is why the banks are given out 200-250K LOCs. In the long run however the cost is not a serious limitation for most. You start earning money right out of med school in the 50K range and you can pay everything off soon enough in practise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 My question is more along the lines of "How do you NOT get 100+k in debt unless you've got an ATM at the bank of Mom & Dad?" At U of A, your tuition alone over 4 years would be over 50 grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Also, re: investing your LOC - don't forget that for every med student who made enough money to buy a condo off of their investments there's another one who lost 75% of their LOC on the market. They just don't talk about it. There's a reason why banks will advise you against investing with your LOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes, do not risk money that is not yours and that you cannot afford to lose, i.e., borrowed money or LOC that is earmarked for a purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrogirl Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 My question is more along the lines of "How do you NOT get 100+k in debt unless you've got an ATM at the bank of Mom & Dad?" At U of A, your tuition alone over 4 years would be over 50 grand. Seriously. I would be quite happy if I only ended up with $100K of debt by the time I'm done. I had about $30K when I started, and I'm probably going to end up with close to $200K (and it would be more than that if I wasn't at a 3 year school). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Also, re: investing your LOC - don't forget that for every med student who made enough money to buy a condo off of their investments there's another one who lost 75% of their LOC on the market. They just don't talk about it. There's a reason why banks will advise you against investing with your LOC. Yup - meet a couple of dents that ran into that problem. They almost had to leave the program. Priorities people Got to focus on the priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yup - meet a couple of dents that ran into that problem. They almost had to leave the program. Priorities people Got to focus on the priorities. To quote my mother's eternal wisdom, "don't invest money you can't afford to lose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 To quote my mother's eternal wisdom, "don't invest money you can't afford to lose." ha! doubly so when the money isn't even your money. I mean it can work but that 200-250K is the upper limit. You cannot go back to the bank and beg for more (some have tried, and yeah the answer was no). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filter105 Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 thank you everyone and rmorelan! I was looking at International school and their budget at 200K was understandable and then all the sudden I saw that Canadian resident too, have that much debt when the tuition is fraction of american's so I wondered if the information I read was wrong haha! If I do get accepted, I will be going in with debt from undergrad too so I guess that's 200K + ...yikes...that is if I get accepted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrogirl Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 If I do get accepted, I will be going in with debt from undergrad too so I guess that's 200K + Don't worry too much about it. You'll be able to pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holiday1001 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 OSAP caps at max at 3500 per term so you get around 15K a year I thought it was 3.5k per Semester.. and this is just the 'loan' portion so are meds still eligible for grants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0tus Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yup, it seems insurmountable when you look at that number from a medical student (or even resident)'s perspective, but at the end of the day you will make enough once you start practicing to pay it off, usually within 1-3 years. Ofcourse it depends on how hard you want to work in the beginning to pay your debt off, as opposed to investing in things like property/expensive cars or going on long exotic vacations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I went to a US school. I had debt of about 250K when i was done (this was back in the early 2000s). I've since paid it off. I worked a ton during undergrad (had about 40K in savings), thanks to a good union job paying 18 bucks an hour which was a lot back in the late 90s/early 00s. That helped a lot. I paid off my provincial government loans of about 25K after one and a half years of residency. The rest I worked my butt off (as a family doc) and have since paid off (thanks to my parents LOC). I've saved enough to buy a nice house in Vancouver about 3.5 years after finishing family practice. Its not as daunting as it sounds. Plan well, save, and delay your gratification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I know many people who graduated in my year (2010) who have less debt than that. I would say average is closer to 50-60k honestly. I had parental help, so I finished with about 35k debt (had no debt entering med school however). You get about 24k/year for osap as a med student (at Mac at least, full year program); and the government only makes you pay back about 11k of that. You do need a car IMO, so with 30k from tuition, car and rent, I really think 100k should be the MAX debt even with no parental help if you are spending reasonably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I thought it was 3.5k per Semester.. and this is just the 'loan' portion so are meds still eligible for grants? per term in my world = per semester We don't really have semesters the same way as most UG programs - OSAP is measured in weeks I guess. There are grants but they are still not that much overall. A couple of thousand put on top of the loan if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Don't worry too much about it. You'll be able to pay it back. absolutely - don't be stupid about it spending wise but really paying it back is the easy part. No one (unless something really special is going on, ie extra family responsibilities) in Canada is restricted from going to med school based on money. It is actually one of the most amazing parts of the entire system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Its not as daunting as it sounds. Plan well, save, and delay your gratification. ^ This A few years of saving sets you up for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 No one (unless something really special is going on, ie extra family responsibilities) in Canada is restricted from going to med school based on money. It is actually one of the most amazing parts of the entire system The great equalizer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'll be coming out with approximately $120K in debt. PS - CaRMS is hard on your LOC. My credit card whimpers every time I look at it now. With luck (fingers crossed) I'll be moving this summer, so that will be expensive, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'll be coming out with approximately $120K in debt. PS - CaRMS is hard on your LOC. My credit card whimpers every time I look at it now. With luck (fingers crossed) I'll be moving this summer, so that will be expensive, too. out of curiousity if you were in Ontario did you find the 9K bursary enough to equalize out the cost of the entire process? This is actually the only remaining part of the expenses I haven't figured out yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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