Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hello everyone, I am new here, but long time lurker, first-time poster. I am 25 years old and want to pursue medicine in Quebec. I am prepared to do anything it takes to get there, in this province, step by step. So, here is me: ME: - Come from a very traditional background where not being in school was not an option, regardless of psychological issues. - In my family, psychological issues don’t exist. You keep going. - Conclusion: When things got rough, I kept going with school, so my record is VERY rollercoaster. DEC – Pure & Applied Science - Got grades between 60%-80% - R Score: 25 – 26ish (I forgot) - Reason: Family had financial problems; had to work, take care of younger siblings. Strict parents would not allow me to pause school, so grades suffered. I forgot about medical school. I even started hating the pressure from parents to get into medical school and all the other pressure they put on me. UNIVERSITY – Bachelor of Fine Arts – 90 credits completed (Concordia) Due to personal issues (having to continue to take care of younger siblings, friend & family deaths/suicides & ensuing depression), my BAC was also a bumpy ride of semesters off, summer courses, or very loaded semesters. - Failed 2 classes; retook them and got Bs, but my heart was not into it at all. - Got mostly As and A- in the majority of my classes, but I have one or two Cs and a D. - No A+. - Took 5 years to finish - upward trend (mostly As and Bs in my last year where I completed 36 credits in one year) GPA: Probably a 3.0/4.3. I don't have the final grades yet. Maybe it’s more. IFG: I assume somewhere between a 1 or 2, since it is a Bachelor of Fine Arts. WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE? SUGGESTIONS? I have re-evaluated study habits, got psychological help, and removed myself from the toxic family situation. So, now, the logistics: - I was considering: 1) Re-taking all science pre-reqs to up my GPA & get good grades 2) Take the MCAT for McGill 3) Apply to do a 2nd undergrad that I would enjoy and with a higher IFG. I was thinking: Kinesiology, Physiology, Exercise Science, Nutrition. I realize that there is no way I can get a 2nd chance without doing a 2nd undegrad at this point. Any other suggestions? Is there hope for me in Québec? In this thread, we discuss those who had issues in Cegep and tell them they still have a chance in Undergrad. But is there hope after messing up your first undergrad? Thank you, and I look forward to your answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Molar Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Since your first degree is in Fine Art, maybe your 2nd one could be in Science, such as Physiology, Molecular Biology, or Biochemistry Those degree would help you determine if medicine is the right choice, and could you handle a heavy load of material in science courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thank you Pisces. I plan on making my 2nd undergrad a science degree. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Molar Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thank you Pisces. I plan on making my 2nd undergrad a science degree. :-) Have you decided to continue studying at Concordia or trying out new environments (McGill, UdeM, ...etc)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hello Pisces, I have considered trying new environments. My last 45 credits of undergrad are mostly A, A- and B+ (9 credits were done in summer school and 36 credits september - april). It is just that it was done a bit all over the place. Because of what happened in CEGEP and the all over the place of the Undergrad but, I believe I need to at least re-do my sciences in a proper fashion (full time) and with good grades before even considering applying to a B. Sc. I am willing to go step by step. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I am worried that my chances at Québec French schools are very slim. I feel I have a better chance with McGill, considering their 2nd undergrad policy. However, this part of their 2nd undergrad policy worries me: Primary Bachelor's degreeA 120 credit ("four-year") or equivalent Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution in any discipline. Applicants who have successfully obtained a diploma of college studies (Diplôme d'études collégiales; "DEC") in a pre-university program can apply with a 90 credit program from a Quebec university. The program must have been undertaken on a full-time basis and should be completed in the time prescribed by the program. A full course load (e.g. 15 credits) is expected in regular sessions. Summer or other interim sessions are acceptable, however they should not take away from regular sessions. The Admissions Committee expects a minimum of 60 consecutive graded credits at the time of application; this enables a more complete basis for the assessment of your academic performance. Second or Alternate Bachelor's degree If you hold, or are currently pursuing, an additional Bachelor's degree--after having completed one that meets the requirements described above--and this alternate degree demonstrates a stronger academic performance, it will be the degree used as the basis of admission, provided that a minimum 45 consecutive graded credits are completed and earned by the application deadline (November 1). Applicants are required to have 60 consecutive graded credits in a second degree, however, 45 consecutive graded credits have to be completed by the application deadline date. The remaining 15 credits must be completed by July 31 of the entering year of medicine. (60 new credits – second program). My first undergrad is definitely not one that meets the requirements described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Molar Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I am worried that my chances at Québec French schools are very slim. I feel I have a better chance with McGill, considering their 2nd undergrad policy. However, this part of their 2nd undergrad policy worries me: My first undergrad is definitely not one that meets the requirements described above. There are open house sections hosted by faculty of Medicine at McGill every summer. I forgot the date, but you definitely can ask them questions there. By the way, I think Concordia also has premed advisors at Career Placement Center ... if I recall correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thank you. I will check it out. Hmm, I hate how everything has to be full time at McGill. What about people who cannot afford that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 You will need to take a full course load to be eligible for most (if not all) med schools. Although us non-trads are a very supportive of each other we also need to be blunt sometimes and realistic. First you need to look at all of the medical schools second degree policies and see which ones you are even eligible for. You will be significantly limited by this and may have to move out of province for med school in order to increase your chances. My worry is you always want to do things part time and have excuses for your low grades. You need to go to school fulltime and nail a second undergrad with a GPA 3.8+. I am a bit worried for you though because you havent shown an ability to focus for long periods of time to be consistent with your marks. You say how various things have got in the way of achieving higher marks but life will always throw curve balls at you and you still need to perform in the face of opposition not crumple with a C or D mark when faced with adversity. Good luck with your aspirations. It will be an uphill battle but there is a slight chance of success. And that is what often drives us forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hmm, I hate how everything has to be full time at McGill. What about people who cannot afford that? They take out loans, save for it, get scholarships, get money from relatives, work part time or full time during school year to afford it. If you choose not to do those things in order to go full time to school you have to understand that you are likely saying good bye to your dream of med school. Did you know that medical school is full time??? and also costs a lot??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Molar Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I studied my B.Sc in Quebec, and I found the tuition fee was very affordable. For a full course load of 30 credits, I used to paid $3400 per year (including admin fee, health insurance, services ...etc). Student scholarships ranged from $1000-$1500 per year, and an NSERC USRA would add up another $5760. Since I worked part time on Sat and Sun, I haven't even used the government loan and bursary yet Gonna use that for my dental school this Fall. So, as long as you stay in Quebec, the financial part would be a bit easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Well tuition will be going up 325$ in Quebec so he might have to riot, loot and protest ... or work a few extra shifts at McDonalds, which ever suits his political affiliations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Well tuition will be going up 325$ in Quebec so he might have to riot, loot and protest ... or work a few extra shifts at McDonalds, which ever suits his political affiliations Oh come on. You judge quite fast. I come from a family where income was scarce. I also had no access to Financial Aid due to being considered "too rich" for it. My family's income was about 1000$ over the limit. I had a great start to my undergrad: 30 credits, mostly As,except for a B+. Same thing in my 2nd year. Then: - I got raped XMas of my 2nd year and everything went downhill in my winter semester. It took me a while to recover, and finding time to work was hard - however, I am lucky that the company I work with was flexible and understanding. Anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 They take out loans, save for it, get scholarships, get money from relatives, work part time or full time during school year to afford it. If you choose not to do those things in order to go full time to school you have to understand that you are likely saying good bye to your dream of med school. Did you know that medical school is full time??? and also costs a lot??? Of course I am very aware of all that! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Oh come on. You judge quite fast. Then: - I got raped XMas of my 2nd year and everything went downhill in my winter semester. It took me a while to recover, and finding time to work was hard - however, I am lucky that the company I work with was flexible and understanding. Anyway. I am sorry you had to go through a traumatic event like that. Unfortunately when you give a vague background of academic failure on an annonymous forum you will get popcorn/Dr.Phil-esque answers. Clearly your situation is very serious, unique, involves serious situations and you would do yourself a big favor by seeking face-2-face consulting from a medical school advisor behind closed doors at the medical schools of interest not on an open forum where we can not possibly understand what you must have gone through and have no idea how medical schools would consider such extreme situations. Of course if you choose to not disclose your reason for academic failure to med school admissions you will have to proceed as advised and do a 2nd undergrad full time and again get A- to A's all around. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thank you. No worries. I am sorry I got a bit angry. I am willing to put in the work for a 2nd undergrad. I have seen the professionals to get over the traumatic event and have had progress. I know I am very capable academically, since I have had very successful semesters before the "event". And a successful last semester of 36 credits (course overload). It is just the middle that is very weird. I am just not sure how you explain all that to an adcom...I DO NOT want to be a victim here, which is why I am very comfortable with doing a 2nd undergrad (I have financial savings...and now, that I have 90 credits, Quebec no longer considers my parents' income, so I can finally get loans and bursaries! Yay!). I know I can and will succeed in my 2nd undergrad. However, do I explain to them what happened? How do I explain the messed up 1st undergrad? Do I even explain it? I know that in Quebec, McGill will be the only university that will care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I love your quote Reel Beef. :-) "The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it ... nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about ... how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky Balboa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 McGill will judge you by your 2nd degree. Your narrative/abstract can tell a compelling story. Jut select your undergrad program with great care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 McGill will judge you by your 2nd degree. Your narrative/abstract can tell a compelling story. Jut select your undergrad program with great care. Thank you future_doc! I have been following your posts for a while. :-P McGill will judge me by my second degree even if they say that they will judge me by my second degree only and only if I do the first degree the cookie cutter way? Unless I am not understanding it properly... Primary Bachelor's degree A 120 credit ("four-year") or equivalent Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution in any discipline. Applicants who have successfully obtained a diploma of college studies (Diplôme d'études collégiales; "DEC") in a pre-university program can apply with a 90 credit program from a Quebec university. The program must have been undertaken on a full-time basis and should be completed in the time prescribed by the program. A full course load (e.g. 15 credits) is expected in regular sessions. Summer or other interim sessions are acceptable, however they should not take away from regular sessions. The Admissions Committee expects a minimum of 60 consecutive graded credits at the time of application; this enables a more complete basis for the assessment of your academic performance. Second or Alternate Bachelor's degree If you hold, or are currently pursuing, an additional Bachelor's degree--after having completed one that meets the requirements described above--and this alternate degree demonstrates a stronger academic performance, it will be the degree used as the basis of admission, provided that a minimum 45 consecutive graded credits are completed and earned by the application deadline (November 1). Applicants are required to have 60 consecutive graded credits in a second degree, however, 45 consecutive graded credits have to be completed by the application deadline date. The remaining 15 credits must be completed by July 31 of the entering year of medicine. (60 new credits – second program). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpy Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thank you future_doc! I have been following your posts for a while. :-P McGill will judge me by my second degree even if they say that they will judge me by my second degree only and only if I do the first degree the cookie cutter way? Unless I am not understanding it properly... You should e-mail McGill directly. You will get a more reliable answer; one that is in writing if an issue ever arises. Better, do what Beef suggested and meet with someone from the med school to discuss your situation in private. This forum is great for advice and suggestions, but for important facts make sure to go to the source. As has already been demonstrated in this thread, it is often easy to give advice based on incomplete information or misinterpretation of someone's situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 I am sorry you had to go through a traumatic event like that. Unfortunately when you give a vague background of academic failure on an annonymous forum you will get popcorn/Dr.Phil-esque answers. Clearly your situation is very serious, unique, involves serious situations and you would do yourself a big favor by seeking face-2-face consulting from a medical school advisor behind closed doors at the medical schools of interest not on an open forum where we can not possibly understand what you must have gone through and have no idea how medical schools would consider such extreme situations. Of course if you choose to not disclose your reason for academic failure to med school admissions you will have to proceed as advised and do a 2nd undergrad full time and again get A- to A's all around. Good luck. Unfortunately, not all schools will care about her situation. French schools don't care a bit about extenuing circumpstances, regardless of the hardships you get. Even if she was to meet an adcom there and explain this to him, he will just coldly say "sorry, I can't do anything for you, have a nice day" or simply "pfff!" and close the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted June 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Unfortunately, not all schools will care about her situation. French schools don't care a bit about extenuing circumpstances, regardless of the hardships you get. Even if she was to meet an adcom there and explain this to him, he will just coldly say "sorry, I can't do anything for you, have a nice day" and close the door. I am a "he" not a "her." :-P I know French school will not care, which is why McGill is my first choice. What about Sherbrooke with their Cote Z? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 I am a "he" not a "her." :-P I know French school will not care, which is why McGill is my first choice. What about Sherbrooke with their Cote Z? Sorry! Z Score=(((GPA-program's average)/program's standard deviation)+5)*5. But I don't know if they calculate a Z Score for each course and if courses not contributing to your GPA are used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 You can get things wiped of your transcript… I got a failing grade wiped off the next day... and had the dean of science confer me a degree I didn't have required all the classes for because I provided a lengthy letter and 50 pages of medical documents I dissected. PTSD, trauma, borderline personality disorder etc. are all protected "disabilities"... you'd be surprised what people will do to avoid losing face and looking downright cruel. This person's perseverance and courage more than augment to be more deserving than an application from lifeless 4.0 on paper. I have tons of experience with this, believe me, exceptions always occur, especially in certain circumstances. When I apply for JD later in life I'm describing in vivid detail a lot of stuff I've seen, people are taught to suck it up, but they deserve credit for their tremendous strength in the face of horrific adversity. Unfortunately, not all schools will care about her situation. French schools don't care a bit about extenuing circumpstances, regardless of the hardships you get. Even if she was to meet an adcom there and explain this to him, he will just coldly say "sorry, I can't do anything for you, have a nice day" or simply "pfff!" and close the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You can get things wiped of your transcript… I got a failing grade wiped off the next day... and had the dean of science confer me a degree I didn't have required all the classes for because I provided a lengthy letter and 50 pages of medical documents I dissected. PTSD, trauma, borderline personality disorder etc. are all protected "disabilities"... you'd be surprised what people will do to avoid losing face and looking downright cruel. This person's perseverance and courage more than augment to be more deserving than an application from lifeless 4.0 on paper. I have tons of experience with this, believe me, exceptions always occur, especially in certain circumstances. When I apply for JD later in life I'm describing in vivid detail a lot of stuff I've seen, people are taught to suck it up, but they deserve credit for their tremendous strength in the face of horrific adversity. French schools don't care about your personal life, you're just a number for them. Interview invites are only based on your grades. Montreal and Sherbrooke explicitely state on their websites that looking at extenuing circumpstances is unfair. As for meeting with an adcom, I don't know if it's possible. If not possible, you can send an email to explain your situation, but they may either not read it, or not respond (something they can easily do). As for erasing marks, yes I know it's possible, i even benefited from this last semester because my ADHD proved to cause more academic difficulty than expected (and I failed a course because of a room mix up, I though I had to do the exam with the others because my assigned room has a number close to the room of my peers, thus not getting additional time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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