hockeypenguin04 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I was browsing through the university rankings from a few reputable sources, and I was surprised to find McMaster as the top Canadian School with regards to clinical, preclinical, and health universities according to Times Higher Education for 2012-13. McGill came second, and UofT third, both of which I expected to be number 1 and number 2. So that brings me to the question - why do you think McMaster has such a highly-rated program? Times rated average industry income and citations very highly (near 100). Times Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojjanhorse Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you look at all the med schools in Canada, you will find that McMaster is never shy of taking a different approach to medicine. They are always open to new ideas. This is what innovation is about, being open minded to change. Not that I dislike UofT, they have one of the most stubborn curriculum that opposes changes from left and right. This shows that to strive in this commercial world, you need to be open to take risks and change things up. Such examples are CASPer (which many universities now integrate in one form or another), and PBL cases (Problem Baseld Learning). This is just my opinion. I would attend McMaster over UofT in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troplondon14 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I would like to clarify that it is NOT McMaster medical school that is the best! the med school falls under the Faculty of Health Sciences which includes all the clincal and preclinical health programs, such as nursing, physician assistant and all the health research including biochemistry department, stem cell research, epidemiology/evidence based med and etc. McMaster is HUGE in research and this is why it is number one for clinical/preclinical. You can see that it is the industry income, citations (ie. published research papers) and the research at McMaster that drives it to the number 1 spot in Canada NOT their medical school (see link below). I personally think that McMaster medical does lack in a lot of areas especially their anatomy program. http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/subject-ranking/subject/clinical-pre-clinical-health/institution/mcmaster-university Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troplondon14 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you look at all the med schools in Canada, you will find that McMaster is never shy of taking a different approach to medicine. They are always open to new ideas. This is what innovation is about, being open minded to change. Not that I dislike UofT, they have one of the most stubborn curriculum that opposes changes from left and right. This shows that to strive in this commercial world, you need to be open to take risks and change things up. Such examples are CASPer (which many universities now integrate in one form or another), and PBL cases (Problem Baseld Learning). This is just my opinion. I would attend McMaster over UofT in a heartbeat. The CASPER system is still being assessed...it was just started a few years ago so I think it would be unlikely that universities are implementing similar programs. Also keep in mind that UT does have PBL in their curriculum. It is a nice to have both learning styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I was browsing through the university rankings from a few reputable sources, and I was surprised to find McMaster as the top Canadian School with regards to clinical, preclinical, and health universities according to Times Higher Education for 2012-13. McGill came second, and UofT third, both of which I expected to be number 1 and number 2. So that brings me to the question - why do you think McMaster has such a highly-rated program? Times rated average industry income and citations very highly (near 100). Times Article McMaster has always been a health sciences focused university. It has the best pre-med program in the country (McMaster Health Sciences), it is innovative (MMI and PBL were created at McMaster), it spends a lot on research per year and so it makes sense. Remember, the difference between rankings in the top 100 is very minor, you really are talking about the top 0.1 vs the top 0.09 universities here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applemanv3 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Many of you have valid facts, ideas, and opinions on this issue. However, take it from me, the school you attend has extremely little to do with how competent or proficient you will end up as a physician or surgeon - that falls on each one of us as individuals and adult learners. Biggest PROS at Mac in my opinion (having gone through the first 4 months): I have insanely hands-on opportunities to experience clinical aspects of medicine right from the get go. PBL is also augmented by extremely small teaching ratios and access to living experts for various topics. Biggest CON: There is scope at McMaster to fall behind or become complacent due to the self-motivated and highly open curriculum. That said, I doubt anyone in my class is sitting on their bum or coasting. We love helping each other out and we love to share what we learn, know, and encounter. Mac was always one of my top 2 choices and frankly, with the exception of the occasional moment or day, I do not regret my choice. Hope this helps in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 honestly, my biggest piss off was getting sick right around app time and not getting time to apply to mac, mac and u of c were my number one choices by a long shot... school philosophy matters, and believe me, no matter how much praise you get, not matter how many clinicians love you, insane research opps ur casually offered (nserc... hmmm, yeah, think a lot higher end), residency offers after first year you get... forget the fact that you call 4 major drug developments years in advance because learning treat a with b doesn't teach you to think critically... i still remember some psych telling me lamotrigine had no anti depressent effect until i told him if he read the patent he'd find receptor specificity changed in high plasma concentrations... god forbid i talk about all the false positive schizophrenics taking 1/12th of our hospital beds... i care about people, but money sells the point... and what, should i bring in my genetics studies showing people sensitive to ssri's, in the sense they develop manic psychosis.. because if you didn't like my epidemiology studies, european studies that tried long term obs before prescribing on initially psychotic patients... well, try the genetics... o ****, shouldnt have thought so much, i must be a bundle of trouble, i think for myself and have evidence to back it up... i'm sure mac would have received such novel thinking very differently. If you look at all the med schools in Canada, you will find that McMaster is never shy of taking a different approach to medicine. They are always open to new ideas. This is what innovation is about, being open minded to change. Not that I dislike UofT, they have one of the most stubborn curriculum that opposes changes from left and right. This shows that to strive in this commercial world, you need to be open to take risks and change things up. Such examples are CASPer (which many universities now integrate in one form or another), and PBL cases (Problem Baseld Learning). This is just my opinion. I would attend McMaster over UofT in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaMed Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Doctors taking residents year in and year out talk about the lack of knowledge Mac med students bring. They know it too ... change is great, but not at the expense of medical knowledge. The school has no form of testing the students which as a patient is scary as hell (they just have a simple self assesment which is the same every time) Tougher curriculums like McGill and U of T dont NEED to change because they have been pumping out world renown doctors for generations now. Mac..not so much :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojjanhorse Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Doctors taking residents year in and year out talk about the lack of knowledge Mac med students bring. They know it too ... change is great, but not at the expense of medical knowledge. The school has no form of testing the students which as a patient is scary as hell (they just have a simple self assesment which is the same every time) Tougher curriculums like McGill and U of T dont NEED to change because they have been pumping out world renown doctors for generations now. Mac..not so much :S what doctors are you talking about? UofT medicine was established in 1887 and Mac medicine only 1965... UofT medicine is more than twice as old as Mac medicine. That's a 75 year difference and Mac has managed to rank alongside with UofT. Most of the content students learn in class will be forgotten by the time they specialize. It's potential and clinical accumen that is sought after which is what Mac is trying to wean out from their pool of applicants. My supervisor (M.D. from Mac, and Neurology Residency at UofT) always tells me "This sh*t is not hard, you can teach this to anyone. It's how you think and how you get to the answer." I'm not bashing UT in anyway, it's a great institution. The social and cultural environment of the school is what I'm after. I much rather have a fun time learning rather than go through Undergrad all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaMed Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 UofT isnt even remotely close to undergrad...nor is ANY medical school in canada... for validity sake..im from Mac med..lol. My brother is in 3rd year UofT med. And I see a huge difference in our education.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkourParkour Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 A Doctor of Medicine is an undergraduate degree... UofT isnt even remotely close to undergrad...nor is ANY medical school in canada... for validity sake..im from Mac med..lol. My brother is in 3rd year UofT med. And I see a huge difference in our education.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaMed Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 A Doctor of Medicine is an undergraduate degree... sorry about the technicality there. I meant in terms of Bachelors degree. University out of high school etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 A Doctor of Medicine is an undergraduate degree... although no one is particularly sure why Canada needs to invent a professional degree category at some point. The rules that apply to standard UG degrees break down a lot at the medicine school level for both the admins and students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaMed Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 On a serious note tho...I found it amazing that Mac didnt have atleast a fully comprehensive anatomy block! How can you do medicine without knowing anatomy! Thats like doing a biochem undergrad without doing second year biochemistry! Regardless its a Canadian Medical school!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojjanhorse Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 UofT isnt even remotely close to undergrad...nor is ANY medical school in canada... for validity sake..im from Mac med..lol. My brother is in 3rd year UofT med. And I see a huge difference in our education.. What is the huge difference you're inferring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechowchowmix Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 On a serious note tho...I found it amazing that Mac didnt have atleast a fully comprehensive anatomy block! How can you do medicine without knowing anatomy! Thats like doing a biochem undergrad without doing second year biochemistry! Regardless its a Canadian Medical school!!! I think the anatomy program is pretty comprehensive for nursing students and etc. (my cousin is at McMaster for nursing). It's just that anatomy is an elective for the med students and I guess trying to fit everything in three years is difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechowchowmix Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Doctors taking residents year in and year out talk about the lack of knowledge Mac med students bring. It is also the responsibility of the student to be self-motivated and direct their own learning (which is ofc important in medicine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I agree with the last posters statement, ultimately, through your career, you're self motivation will be the most important determinant of your success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aani Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 People will always crack such jokes- don't let them affect you or your perception of the program. Not every medical student will be the 'perfect' physician. In fact, none of them will be, and regardless, you can never make everyone happy. Be assured that doctors have told me that they enjoy having McMaster students around, b/c we approach things in such a unique fashion. We might be behind in certain knowledge areas during clerkship, but everyone is caught up by residency. People resistant to change will always find flaws in change Strangely, I heard the same thing from my brother-in-law. He has this joke with his friends where if they see a med degree from McMaster on a physician's wall... they run the hell out. Kind of depressing and sad to hear since McMaster University is a great school and its one of my top choices! However, I would still go to McMaster in a heartbeat since their learning style does fit me and their are a lot of good support/learning programs and opportunities for med students at McMaster. It is also the responsibility of the student to be self-motivated and direct their own learning (which is ofc important in medicine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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