dentistry as backup?

[Guest dude]

i know some people are against this - esp those who are ALREADY in med school - but this is my fourth year and i really don't want to do grad school, blah blah.

 

how many people out there have also decided to apply to dentistry as a backup?

 

what are your thoughts?

[Guest strider2004]

I know that this happens. It does perpetuate the stereotype that dentistry students are just med student wannabes(which isn't the case). Heck, great pay AND lifestyle? If you get into dentistry, you'll never want to change. The thing you have to think about is how fair it would be to the dental school. It's not really ethical to go to a school and have them put so much time and money into you when you might leave the next year if you get into medicine.

 

This is fine if you actually think you'll make a career of dentistry. Many people decide to apply to both and whatever they get into, they'll do. But if you do dentistry just as a thing to do while you're waiting to get into medicine: 1) it's a waste of your money

2) it's a waste of the dental school's money and it might hurt you if you want to go to UofT or UWO since they have dental schools and you might be interviewed by a dentist.

 

If you have no intention of becoming a dentist, then do a 5th year of undergrad. You can improve your grades and you'll have more free time to do extracurricular stuff.

[Guest dude]

you're right strider. it's absolutely unfair to apply and enter dentistry if you have no intention of doing it. hopefully i won't have to resort to dentistry - an option which i will carry through and make it as a career. i would much rather perform surgery on something else.

 

just as an aside, i know several people in your class, strider, as well as in queen's meds 03 who did do the "dual" route as a backup. true, we would like to think that dentists really wanted to be a dentist. however, i know that it is not the case definitely. just what proportions is it like so, i do not know.

[Guest strider2004]

Yep, a person in our class was actualy in dentistry and then he switched out when he got into medicine. It's actually quite amusing because he likes dentistry and defends it if need be. It did hurt him on his UWO meds interview because he WAS interviewed by a dentist - it's a combined Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry at UWO.

 

I also have a friend in UofT dents who applied to both meds and dents and only got one of them. He is happy where he is although like you, he wanted to become a surgeon. I personally think that dentists probably have much better lifestyles than physicians. This applies to some parts of medicine as well. Really, how many people have a deep down urge to become a dermatologist?

 

I have also heard of people who apply to law, dents AND meds just so they can get into professional school. I couldn't imagine doing something like that. I'd have to be passionate about what I'd devote my life to.

 

It's good that you'd follow through with your plan and I understand that it must be a stressful time for you. At this point in my 4th year, I really didn't know if I wanted to do research or clinical medicine. I was either going to do a PhD(and devote my life to research) or MD, depending what happened with med school admissions.

 

Scary how your life can be determined by a little piece of paper. Good luck to you.

[Guest toodumbformeds]

Well, with mediocre numbers (3.6GPA, 31P on MCAT) I

was pretty sure I wouldn't be able to get into med

school. Having already wasted time and money into

writing the MCAT and taking correspondence english,

I only applied to the 2 dental schools in Ontario. Here's

my thoughts, after half a year of study:

 

1. it's not meds (duh!): there's no saving lives here,

though we do get to diagnose some oral cancer

every now and then

 

2. less academic workload: but more lab stuff, like

drilling plastic teeth or waxing models

 

3. after 4 years: no residency, but only 1 or 2 in each

class will be able to get into specialties

 

Well, I think it's been pretty good so far. However,

the more you feel passionate about medicine the

less dents will be a suitable backup. For me, this

path is much better than continuing to try for meds

through MSc/PhD, or joining the workforce as just

an undergrad.

[Guest ethical]

I find it interesting that some of you feel it is UNethical to persue dentistry if you would like to really be in medicine or if you are not sure that being a dentist is for you. How is that UNETHICAL? If you have the credentials for acceptance into either program then go for it. OK, so maybe "your heart isn't really in it"...I hope none of us believe that everyone that goes into medicine, law, dentisty, research, education, ect, ect for 'all the right reasons'...we all have our own reasons. If you do your job with excellence and demonstrate respect for others what you done to be unethical? OK, I'm done.

[Guest toodumbformeds]

well, suppose I had wanted to be a physician

all along, but could only get into dents after 4 years.

So in dents I work hard on the courses and practice

that MCAT like crazy, and in the end manage to

attain my dream of getting a MD.

 

this is bad cuz-

a) someone who wanted to be a dentist couldn't

get in, possibly altering their life path in some way

 

despite the high tuition ($22000/yr at UWO)

the government has to pay for this

 

there are better ways to spend time after

graduating, such as working in Africa or doing MSc.

Not giving up meds upon entry to dents is slightly

selfish.

[Guest bad hombre]

toodumbformeds,

 

"3. after 4 years: no residency, but only 1 or 2 in each

class will be able to get into specialties"

 

I talked to an admissions dude at U of T dents, and he told me roughly between a fourth to a third of the class would get into specialties. what do you think of this?

[Guest confused]

How the hell do you get into dental school with a 3.6? The average is around 87% , ive heard of people getting rejected with an 88 average!!

 

I'm totally confused!

[Guest the true confused]

hey thats my name dont use it......grrrrrrr Oh yeah, I also heard of people getting into dental with WAY lower grades like 3.3. I dont know where you get your info from. I know people who are med with a 3.6 and generaly dental applicants have a lower gpa then pre meds.

[Guest Ian Wong]

 

Heya,

 

Are you guys both referring to dental schools in Canada, or the US? I think here in Canada, applications to dental school are probably in the same league as med schools, while in the US, getting into a dental school is a bit easier than med school.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest confused]

Im referring to Canadian Dental Schools !!!!!

 

Obviously, why would we care about US schools, when in doubt check the name Ian has given this fine board- "The CANADIAN Premed and Med School Forum"

 

Btw Way to go team Canada!!

just like our med and dental school grads- we are the elite and kick the Amercans Ass time in and time out!!!!

[Guest toodumbformeds]

bad hombre:

that certainly sounds like a bright perspective.

AFAIK most specialties only take 2-3 students,

and a third of the U of T class represents 25

people, a huge number. While I don't have the

guts to dispute your source, I have heard consistently

from dental students that only the top 1 or 2 manage

to get into specialties. Also don't forget that dents

only has 9 specialties (and unpopular disciplines such

as oral path or community dents probably take in

fewer candidates).

 

confused twins:

I certainly am near the bottom of the barrel! The

admissions here will give "bonus points" to B.Sc(Hon)

so I would have had an advantage over a 2nd year

guy.

 

Dr. Ian:

I agree with the "same league" statement. For a

hockey analogy, med school is like canada, dents

like u.s. team... for the first 2 periods

[Guest bad hombre]

concerning the low gpa's, maybe western only considers your BEST year and makes sure you make the cutoff in your last year, like they do for meds,

 

tbfm,

yeah, i was also pretty surprised when the admissions dude gave me those numbers. maybe he was bending the truth in order to encourage me to apply... what i figure is that u of t (and possibly western) dental students score higher than average on the american boards, which allows some to specialize south of the border. also the dude told me a lot of people decide to do a GPR before specializing, so maybe this accounts for the lower numbers you've heard.

 

confused,

you should be a little more careful with your posts criticizing others. did you NOT notice that it was Ian himself who made the comments about the american schools ??!!

the name "canadian premed and med forum" refers to the fact that we all are canadian or atleast attend canadian universities, NOT to the fact that we will exclusively be attending canadian med (or dent) schools in the future

[Guest ghgh]

jkjkjkj

[Guest toodumbformeds]

From my community dents course, here is

the breakdown of specialties in Canada:

 

Public Health 67

Endo 171

Oral Surg 331

Oral Meds/Path 38

Ortho 629

Peds 188

Perio 289

Prostho 173

Total of 1901 specialists (11% total)

 

As you can see, only about 1 in 10 dentists

are specialists, and my guess is that schools

are going to maintain this status quo. I

noticed that something like 65% of med grads

are matched in a non family medicine field.

[Guest mddds]

hello,

 

Most of you out there will be surprised, but dentistry is amazing. It offers emotional satisfaction, financial rewards, and an easy going, "chilling and lounging" lifestyle. Upon graduation, as an associate i earned $70, 000, and the following year close to $85000. The amount of money you make of course varies on the practice you end up in and the hours you work. Most of my classmates earned in the range of 50-80 grand as associates with an average of 50 hours per week. Our practice managers, earned about $160000/ year after overhead etc.

 

For me, dentistry was satisfying, but i felt that there were holes in my knowledge. I became interested in focusing on tissues rather than teeth during my associatship. I began to identify med problems that manifested themselves in the mouth and found myself referring all the time. I knew what these diseases were and their causes, and how to treat them, its just that i couldn't. The most i could do was counsel my patients and help them maintain a healthy oral env (prescribe an antibiotic or pain killer) while they saw their md/oral surgeon. I could not operate on a cyst cause i didn't have the skill (but i could have), nor could i really follow the patient up much closer. At 26, I was feeling brave and wanted to do everything!!!....

 

I completed my undergrad dental education at the university of toronto and am now finishing my md with an oral and maxillofacial specialty at uoft (uoft has just introduced this program). Before deciding to specialize i praciticed for 2 years (i was 24 when i entered the specialty). I then completed a 4 year residency in oral and mx facial surgery. Now i'm in med school for the next two years (2 clearkship years at u of t combined with oral surgery and med in peds, geriatrics) (the program will be more integrated as of sept 2002).

 

re: specialties hard to get into???

ans: not in the us -especially after a general residency there

 

Although, you may argue that only 1-2 individuals get into this specialty yearly at u of t, there are several schools in the states that will open their arms out to ya!!! Its not a matter of marks, rather its your ability to communicate during interviews and what type of an impression you make during the interviews! I was no where near the top of my class, nor was i in the top 10%.

 

In terms of other dental specialties, many general practice residencies are avail in the u.s. Upon, finishing 1 year of a GPR, you are considered a u.s applicant for many grad programs in dents. Hence, you are on an equal playing field with other us applicants for specialties. Moreover, U.s dental schools look favourably upon canadian dental school grads since they are considered "gold" (and brighter).

 

Also, just to inform everyone: The entering gpa for the class of 2003 at uoft was ~3.9, 3.8 for the class of 2004 and 2005. At u of t, generally the worst year is eliminated from your undergrad marks(if you have a four year degree), and an average is taken of the remaining years. However, a recent trend has been that in alternate years, only your 2 most recent years are included in the gpa calculation. They're just trying to give everyone an equal chance. But maybe they should do something about the tuition huh???

 

sorry about the essay!!!! Just wanted to clarify some things.....

[Guest KG]

Hey mddds,

So did you do the 2 pre-clerkships years at U of T meds already, or did they let you go straight to the clerkship? And you were already practicing for 2 years at age 24, meaning you were 18 years old when starting dents? That's really impressive!

[Guest Ian Wong]

Hi mddds,

 

Just wanted to welcome you to the forums, and hope that you will continue on with us and give us more of your experience. You've got an inside perspective that most of us readers are looking for when we visit these forums.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest dento]

Hey mddds,

 

Thanks for the detail info, I just wanted to ask if you have any idea how the admissions are going to work this year at u of t dentistry. I believe this is the first year that they have interviews, and I am not sure how the interviews are weighted or what type of interview to expect. Any info even if doesn't answer my question would really help as well..Thanks a lot.

[Guest bad hombre]

the interview is worth 20% of your final chitlins, with 10% DATs and 70% GPA. NOt sure what it's like I haven't even applied yet.

[Guest faxillomacial]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows where the web page is for the md/dds O&MS program at U of T? I know for sure it's offered at Dal though.

[Guest GusK]

When I studied dentistry at U of T (way back in 1986) there was a guy in my class who was a practising MD who was in our class. If I recall his plan was to become an oral and maxillofacial surgeon. Not sure if he finished as I dropped out of the program.

 

Gus