AlphaMagnum Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Okay, I live in Regina and my folks are physicians who work with the RQHR, so they get to teach medical students on rotation and interview prospective students in the spring. Due to their proximity to the learning institution, they tend to hear things like "the UofS is on academic probation" and they pass that knowledge onto me, but none of us really understands why it is the case or what it means. In the end, they just advised me to attend the school only as a last resort. So what's the deal? Does probation relate in any way to UofS medical students' board scores or performance on other standardized measures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Seriously?! No... its wrong... U of S Medicine is held in high regards all across Canada and the U of S... the Dean of Medicine at Harvard has said... "No University in Canada, no in North America... is able to meet that standards of U of S Medicine" Jokes aside... yes it is facing issues... and its made worse... by the fact that the dean resigned 'right after' these issues were put to light... I know a bunch of people... who are also seeing U of S as their 'last resort...' Btw, look at the grades for national board exams among all universities... LO AND BEHOLD... u of s is at the lowest... even lower than the grades from the Caribbeans... that says a lot about the education itself... and not to mention the standard of respect you'll get if you work outside of Saskatchewan... hahaha... to make this worse they are bringing MCAT back... HOW IRONIC IS THAT? MOST OF THE PRE-MEDS (IF NOT ALL) WILL BE LEAVING THEN... I don't know... WHY THEY DON'T SEE THIS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaMagnum Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yeah, I'm counting on getting in somewhere other than Saskatchewan, but the university is definitely not in a good situation. Have to wonder how much of these results are due to crappy students, and how much are caused by inadequate teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yeah, I'm counting on getting in somewhere other than Saskatchewan, but the university is definitely not in a good situation. Have to wonder how much of these results are due to crappy students, and how much are caused by inadequate teaching. haha... you are quite smart to catch on to that one... personally... I think its the admissions criteria... you can have students from econ/soc/etc getting in... and struggling with the workload medicine offers... I've applied elsewhere as well and am considering sask as one of my last choices (Manitoba being the lowest of the low... for obvious reasons)... hoping Alberta application is successful though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshMellow Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 I've applied elsewhere as well and am considering sask as one of my last choices (Manitoba being the lowest of the low... for obvious reasons)... hoping Alberta application is successful though... Have you thought of Ontario? Western & Queen's only look at 2 best years as well, just like Sask. Also UofT's weighting system is a beauty...although that admissions process can be a bit of a crap shoot. Any how, good luck w/Alberta. IMHO, quite a few of those intending/gunning specifically for Usask Med wouldn't get into any med school in Canada or in the US. Why? Motivation is questionable. Almost everyone I know that are enrolled lack, or barely have, any meaningful EC's. The majority of any Usask Med class lack: Research curiosity/experience, EC's of any kind or significance (just the bare minimum to gain references), questionable majors chosen (not because they especially like the field...but because it's "easier). IMHO, it seems people aren't 100% passionate about med...it's just the "cool" thing to pursue because it seems relatively "easily attainable". Having said that, I'm sure the class is composed of many thoughtful, intelligent, polite, people who may very well become good doctors. But I do feel there is an underlying level of immaturity. I just feel a better medical education lies elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Have you thought of Ontario? Western & Queen's only look at 2 best years as well, just like Sask. Also UofT's weighting system is a beauty...although that admissions process can be a bit of a crap shoot. Any how, good luck w/Alberta. IMHO, quite a few of those intending/gunning specifically for Usask Med wouldn't get into any med school in Canada or in the US. Why? Motivation is questionable. Almost everyone I know that are enrolled lack, or barely have, any meaningful EC's. The majority of any Usask Med class lack: Research curiosity/experience, EC's of any kind or significance (just the bare minimum to gain references), questionable majors chosen (not because they especially like the field...but because it's "easier). IMHO, it seems people aren't 100% passionate about med...it's just the "cool" thing to pursue because it seems relatively "easily attainable". Having said that, I'm sure the class is composed of many thoughtful, intelligent, polite, people who may very well become good doctors. But I do feel there is an underlying level of immaturity. I just feel a better medical education lies elsewhere. Couldn't have said it any better myself... im guessing you are in medicine already... theres the issue of respect as well... theres a huge difference between having a diploma that states you graduated from "u of s" as opposed to "UBC, U of T or McGill" I SO WISH... i could make it into either of those three schools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaMagnum Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 haha... you are quite smart to catch on to that one... personally... I think its the admissions criteria... you can have students from econ/soc/etc getting in... and struggling with the workload medicine offers... I've applied elsewhere as well and am considering sask as one of my last choices (Manitoba being the lowest of the low... for obvious reasons)... hoping Alberta application is successful though... What's wrong with Manitoba? Their admissions criteria seems plenty stringent, but then again I saw that apparently they're the lowest ranked med school in Canada. On the other hand those rankings don't necessarily relate to the quality of medical education, and instead focus on research/funding/other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 The main issue right now... is bringing a four year degree requirement before applying... do you honestly think... that after getting a degree... pre-meds (especially ones from Saskatchewan) will not write the MCAT and leave??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futureGP Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 What's wrong with Manitoba? Their admissions criteria seems plenty stringent, but then again I saw that apparently they're the lowest ranked med school in Canada. On the other hand those rankings don't necessarily relate to the quality of medical education, and instead focus on research/funding/other factors. Manitoba is bad/not preferred not because of its education/standards of students, but because of the location every canadian med school is great and easily outranks most US schools. The ranking really is reflective of the PhD programs not the MD program and prestige is really a reflection of the graduate programs in those schools (biomedical MSc/PhD/Postdocs/Residents). MD is a clinical discipline so prestige earned on hard-core research shouldn't reflect its education (especially undergraduate). Plus all post-graduate residencies in Canada are regulated such that they all produce excellent clinicians (and researchers). The only advantage the big programs have over the others is that they probably have the capacity/finances to support super-specialized fellowships that are probably the ones bringing home reputation (really not relevant at ugrad + most postgrad residencies). Every MD program in North America has the capacity to train great clinicians as long as they meet the LCME accreditations. It really depends on the students themselves. The truth is most people apply only to local schools, unless you're from ontario when you really don't have much choice but to apply broadly (even still, most people try to apply within the province). Such that the smartest students don't necessarily all flock to the most 'prestigious' schools in Canada (and most schools have super-smart geniuses/the average/the not-so) imo medschool decision-making really comes down to location/city atmosphere/tuition/school culture/friendliness during school tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaMagnum Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Manitoba is bad/not preferred not because of its education/standards of students, but because of the location every canadian med school is great and easily outranks most US schools. The ranking really is reflective of the PhD programs not the MD program and prestige is really a reflection of the graduate programs in those schools (biomedical MSc/PhD/Postdocs/Residents). MD is a clinical discipline so prestige earned on hard-core research shouldn't reflect its education (especially undergraduate). Plus all post-graduate residencies in Canada are regulated such that they all produce excellent clinicians (and researchers). The only advantage the big programs have over the others is that they probably have the capacity/finances to support super-specialized fellowships that are probably the ones bringing home reputation (really not relevant at ugrad + most postgrad residencies). Every MD program in North America has the capacity to train great clinicians as long as they meet the LCME accreditations. It really depends on the students themselves. The truth is most people apply only to local schools, unless you're from ontario when you really don't have much choice but to apply broadly (even still, most people try to apply within the province). Such that the smartest students don't necessarily all flock to the most 'prestigious' schools in Canada (and most schools have super-smart geniuses/the average/the not-so) imo medschool decision-making really comes down to location/city atmosphere/tuition/school culture/friendliness during school tours Thanks for the thorough response! I'm not sure about how I feel regarding 4 years in Winnipeg, but Saskatoon can't be much better tbh. The weather will suck either way! I would honestly prefer the University of Alberta, or McGill, or any school in Ontario, and accordingly I have active applications in all of those places. Hell, I'm taking an inorganic chemistry course just to maintain eligibility in Alberta, so they'd better give me an interview! Having applied to 20+ schools, I'm pretty familiar with the idea of applying broadly. It was a hassle to get all those essays done, but if I get a seat somewhere nice it'll all be worth it! To some extent what I've heard from my folks agrees with what you said about medical education in Canada. They said that even if I ended up at the UofS, if I worked hard and studied well I could come out as an excellent doctor. However, they have also observed (anecdotally, of course) that on average the rotating students from the UofS, as well as UofS grads, have poorer knowledge and clinical skills than students and graduates from other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 k, how many students does u of s graduate... i seriously never see any u of s students on the boards... ya personally, i'd rather live in a montreal, toronto, vancouver, calgary, (i hear halifax is lovely too, but never been there yet)... than any of the other prairie cities, better yet, send me somewhere down in california... the one positive i would imagine is a small class size (250 classmates in van sounds way too big for me, espec since you have to see everyone in pre-clin everyday... at least in smaller class you know everyone rather well than having to put on the smile and be good-mannered leash all the time cause you don't know everyone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebriz Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 The main issue right now... is bringing a four year degree requirement before applying... do you honestly think... that after getting a degree... pre-meds (especially ones from Saskatchewan) will not write the MCAT and leave??? It's not that easy david, if you leave the province you are OOP for another school. Maybe they will apply at alot more places but the majority will still get in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Not unless... you have astounding scores... I know lots of sask pre-meds (that do their undergrad here)... once they achieve a high GPA... they write the MCAT (for obvious reasons) and are OUTTA here... Honestly... if you have an average above 90% (or even close)... you have to be RETARDED... not to write the MCAT... haha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Seriously... you strive so hard... do so well... for what? U of S? There are other institutions out there... that are more deserving of you... (of course... if you have high marks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failingtothrive Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Ok. These posts are rife with misinformation. First of all, the Dean didn't "resign" because the U of S was having problems. His eight year term was up. Second, the U of S is not on academic probation. They are on "warning of" probation, which is different. The reasons why are actually nothing major, and aren't based on exam performance. Basically every medical school has been through the same thing. With respect to LMCC performance, I hope I can put this in perspective. Most medical schools finish clerkship very early in the last year of school, such as January or February. Those students spend their time going back to almost full-time classes to review for the LMCC, which is usually end of April/beginning of May. At the U of S, we have all of TWO WEEKS off to study before the exam. Any idiot who goes to school for a few months to study for a specific exam can do well. This is why our performance isn't great. Lastly, does exam performance matter? U of S still matches incredibly well across the country because our clinical experience is on par or above other schools. This is why (from the class of 2012), they had people match to TORONTO DERM, Toronto ENT, several more ENTs, a neurosurg, 5-year emerg, and anesthesia across the country, just to name a few. Other classes have matched just as well. If exam performance was the only thing that mattered to a medical school, well then admittance would be based solely on academics, with no interview portion. Obviously this isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Ok. These posts are rife with misinformation. First of all, the Dean didn't "resign" because the U of S was having problems. His eight year term was up. Second, the U of S is not on academic probation. They are on "warning of" probation, which is different. The reasons why are actually nothing major, and aren't based on exam performance. Basically every medical school has been through the same thing. With respect to LMCC performance, I hope I can put this in perspective. Most medical schools finish clerkship very early in the last year of school, such as January or February. Those students spend their time going back to almost full-time classes to review for the LMCC, which is usually end of April/beginning of May. At the U of S, we have all of TWO WEEKS off to study before the exam. Any idiot who goes to school for a few months to study for a specific exam can do well. This is why our performance isn't great. Lastly, does exam performance matter? U of S still matches incredibly well across the country because our clinical experience is on par or above other schools. This is why (from the class of 2012), they had people match to TORONTO DERM, Toronto ENT, several more ENTs, a neurosurg, 5-year emerg, and anesthesia across the country, just to name a few. Other classes have matched just as well. If exam performance was the only thing that mattered to a medical school, well then admittance would be based solely on academics, with no interview portion. Obviously this isn't the case. hahaha... 'every' wow... you obviously have not done your research... are you perhaps a representative of COM? As your name makes perfect sense... on how things are at U of S... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Stop feeding the troll However I have to say that performance on the LMCC exam is in no way related to how much time off you have in 4th year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Stop feeding the troll However I have to say that performance on the LMCC exam is in no way related to how much time off you have in 4th year. Seriously... you want to get involved with me? You could have said that sentence without involving me... jeez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_007 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Stop feeding the troll However I have to say that performance on the LMCC exam is in no way related to how much time off you have in 4th year. I acknowledge that I am a troll... but you sir... should acknowledge that you are a retard... either that... or you are implying we have some 'dum-dum' medical students... am i interpreting you correctly? Do you require a translator... who can convert stupidity into english... those translators are hard to come by these days... given the amount of retards in the world are very rare... congratulations sir... you compose a very rare group of people in this world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boringem Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 The College is going through some tough times. We have an acting Dean. There are ongoing issues with accreditation. The faculty have been in uproar over recent changes. The increased enrollment is going to stress capacity. Our students have not been doing well on the MCCQE1. You can read about it all in the paper. I will not comment on the specifics of other medical schools because I haven't been to them. However, I can assure you that while we may have more (and more public) problems right now than most, everyone has issues. Even if there was a perfect school, I think you are incorrect in attributing greater value to medical degrees from specific institutions in Canada. You could argue that you'd be more likely to come out a strong medical student if you go to a school that is doing great and I would agree - but only for the weak students. The rockstar M3's and M4's are not great because they went to a good school, they are great because they are personable enough to develop strong relationships with their mentors and have a work-ethic that pushes them to learn more on their own time than they ever will in a classroom or clinic. They would have done well wherever they went. As for CaRMS, you don't get bonus points for coming from the U of T, UBC or McGill. People aren't looking at what your degree says, they are looking at what you'd bring to their program and how you'll fit in. They want to match awesome residents. Where they come from doesn't matter. This may be different in the States if you're inclined to go there, but that hasn't been my experience - I recently accepted my dream fellowship at Harvard/MGH. Many of us chose the U of S and, just because it is not right for you, does not mean it was wrong for us. We may not have the research clout of other schools and we are certainly in disarray at the moment, but we also offer advantages such as an exceptional social justice program and great hands-on experience that you won't find looking over the shoulders of the many residents and fellows at a bigger institution. I don't mind if you disagree, but please do so respectfully. I can be as critical of my own institution as the next guy (some would say more), but the College is my family and every year I look forward to welcoming a new batch of members. I'd much prefer that they join us with the ideas and enthusiasm we will need to get back on track than these disheartening notions. And if it so happens that you are unlucky enough to be one of them next year, I hope you can make the best of it. -brent http://boringem.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsalwayssunny Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 +1 to boringem- it's nice to see a well thought out, reasoned response on this thread. It's also nice hearing from someone with *gasp* actual experience and information that others might find useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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