Does undergraduate school matter?

[anthony95]

Hey guys,

So some students were discussing this in my class today and it peaked my interest. From your experience does which school you go to matter. Like does going to York or university of Toronto scarborough mean anything bad since they are not as big as university of Toronto st George or McGill. Does this apply to just med school or other grad schools like pharmacy for example.

 

Thanks guys

[Anfield]

Already been asked to death

 

No it does not matter.

[future_doc]

Totally irrelevant. Go where you likely will have the best experience and will maximize GPA.

[rmorelan]

Hey guys,

So some students were discussing this in my class today and it peaked my interest. From your experience does which school you go to matter. Like does going to York or university of Toronto scarborough mean anything bad since they are not as big as university of Toronto st George or McGill. Does this apply to just med school or other grad schools like pharmacy for example.

 

Thanks guys

 

yeah old argument - people really have a hard time believing it doesn't matter.

 

....and yet it doesn't matter.

[Intrepid86]

Totally irrelevant. Go where you likely will have the best experience and will maximize GPA.

 

Usual caveat; this is still 4 years of your life, so don't make GPA concerns your primary motivation for picking one school vs another.

[skymall88]

Yeah I just dont understand why its so difficult for people to realize this.

[AshPreMed]

No, it doesn't matter. The world is unfair and you'll have to deal with it.

[rmorelan]

No, it doesn't matter. The world is unfair and you'll have to deal with it.

 

If everyone knows the rules then it is fair. It is the surprise of misinformation that is the problem.

 

To be honest I never noticed much a difficultly difference between various universities anyway - I took courses at TO, Guelph, Waterloo, Western... I just didn't see anything really material wise. Now culture at the school, and approach with various niche challenging programs those were different but your run of the mill courses seemed similar enough.

[Intrepid86]

Yeah I just dont understand why its so difficult for people to realize this.

 

It's counter-intuitive. The average person is used to putting importance on institutional reputation and prestige (after all, every university brochure harps on it). What they weren't told is that those things matter less in Canada than they do in the U.S.

[future_doc]

Prestige, reputation, bragging rights are meaningless, at least, for undergraduate studies. I chose my undergrad university based upon the program they had which was of great interest to me. It was a no name university.

[CapillaryWave]

To be fair though, the undergraduate institution you attend could greatly influence the quality/quantity of activities you're eligible to participate in. Therefore, making it easier to make yourself a more competitive applicant. One of my good friends went to Harvard for undergraduate and came back to Canada for medical school, and although the name "Harvard" on her transcript probably didn't aide her application, the opportunities they provided for her most certainly did. I'm sure there must be some Canadian equivalencies to this?

[future_doc]

My program was interesting, motivating and the perfect preparation for med school. All my activities were in the wider community beyond my university.

[AshPreMed]

To be fair though, the undergraduate institution you attend could greatly influence the quality/quantity of activities you're eligible to participate in. Therefore, making it easier to make yourself a more competitive applicant. One of my good friends went to Harvard for undergraduate and came back to Canada for medical school, and although the name "Harvard" on her transcript probably didn't aide her application, the opportunities they provided for her most certainly did. I'm sure there must be some Canadian equivalencies to this?

 

All opportunities will not help if you have a lower GPA (even a 0.2 difference will negate all opportunities).

[CapillaryWave]

My program was interesting, motivating and the perfect preparation for med school. All my activities were in the wider community beyond my university.

 

Clearly, I wasn't denying that you can get into medical school from any university and with other experiences. My point was that going to an institution that has more resources can definitely be used to your benefit.

 

All opportunities will not help if you have a lower GPA (even a 0.2 difference will negate all opportunities).

 

Um, what..? No.

[Fox]

OP, I am pretty sure if you go to UTSC, you are a U of T student. Your transcript and degree says you studied at "University of Toronto". When you apply to medical school, you select "University of Toronto" for the institution you studied at. WRT med school application, you do not differ from UTSG students.

 

So if you think UTSC is easier, go for it (I am not saying it is, it was implied in the post). You get "prestige" (if that matters to you) on your degree and you could get the marks. But like everyone here has stated, this "prestige" will play no role on your application and it has no effect on your future in medicine.

[AshPreMed]

Um, what..? No.

 

Um, what..? Yes. You haven't had a lower GPA (MD/PhD) to know what it's like. You're just speculating.

 

Admissions look at grades first, then IF they're interested, they'll look at your activities. They don't have time to read thousands of people's activities, and usually having < 3.7 GPA means your application isn't read, at least in Canada.

[peachaso]

To be fair though, the undergraduate institution you attend could greatly influence the quality/quantity of activities you're eligible to participate in. Therefore, making it easier to make yourself a more competitive applicant. One of my good friends went to Harvard for undergraduate and came back to Canada for medical school, and although the name "Harvard" on her transcript probably didn't aide her application, the opportunities they provided for her most certainly did. I'm sure there must be some Canadian equivalencies to this?

 

Yes, for example, even though research isn't required, say you do want to do it. If you go to Thompson Rivers, your opportunities will be different than if you go to Mcgill.

[Anfield]

To be fair though, the undergraduate institution you attend could greatly influence the quality/quantity of activities you're eligible to participate in. Therefore, making it easier to make yourself a more competitive applicant. One of my good friends went to Harvard for undergraduate and came back to Canada for medical school, and although the name "Harvard" on her transcript probably didn't aide her application, the opportunities they provided for her most certainly did. I'm sure there must be some Canadian equivalencies to this?

 

What do you mean by more opportunities? Research? If so, I agree. But if not, then you can go to a low or mid-tier school but with motivation and determination you could easily access and participate in these so-called special opportunities.

[AshPreMed]

What do you mean by more opportunities? Research? If so, I agree. But if not, then you can go to a low or mid-tier school but with motivation and determination you could easily access and participate in these so-called special opportunities.

 

As an undergrad all research you do is stupid and hilarious. Doing research as an undergrad at Harvard vs Laurentian is not much different to medical schools because you're so inexperienced either way. You're like a KG student. "Research" exposure matters, your location matters less than your GPA. So the opportunities in no way (unless ur Nobel prize winner, even then u need them to look at ur app in the first place) compensate for a < 3.6 undergrad GPA. That's because they won't read your application to know you won a Nobel prize haha. It's ALL grades. 1% opportunities. Only if you get a high GPA will your opportunities will be LOOKED at.

[CapillaryWave]

Um, what..? Yes. You haven't had a lower GPA (MD/PhD) to know what it's like. You're just speculating.

 

Admissions look at grades first, then IF they're interested, they'll look at your activities. They don't have time to read thousands of people's activities, and usually having < 3.7 GPA means your application isn't read, at least in Canada.

 

Was definitely thinking 0.02 not 0.2. I apologize.

 

Yes, for example, even though research isn't required, say you do want to do it. If you go to Thompson Rivers, your opportunities will be different than if you go to Mcgill.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

What do you mean by more opportunities? Research? If so, I agree. But if not, then you can go to a low or mid-tier school but with motivation and determination you could easily access and participate in these so-called special opportunities.

 

Research is one opportunity, but I was also thinking of things like athletics, international experience, and distinguished faculty... But, before this conversation gets away from me, I don't deny that you can access/participate in opportunities at any university and become competitive for medical school. My only point was that if someone KNOWS what their strengths are, it's probably worth going to school tailored to helping students with those strengths excel. It's not necessary by any means, but it may be personally and academically rewarding.

 

As an undergrad all research you do is stupid and hilarious. Doing research as an undergrad at Harvard vs Laurentian is not much different to medical schools because you're so inexperienced either way. You're like a KG student. "Research" exposure matters, your location matters less than your GPA. So the opportunities in no way (unless ur Nobel prize winner, even then u need them to look at ur app in the first place) compensate for a < 3.6 undergrad GPA. That's because they won't read your application to know you won a Nobel prize haha. It's ALL grades. 1% opportunities. Only if you get a high GPA will your opportunities will be LOOKED at.

 

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up GPA? No one is denying its importance. But, it should almost be a given that someone who is genuinely serious and educated about medical school already has a competitive GPA or has a plan to achieve it. I'll admit that I'm a bit bias in this regard, but I've met lots of medical students who didn't want to get into "any" medical school, myself included. That doesn't mean that we wouldn't have been happy about getting an acceptance anywhere, but it's fair to say most people have top choices, and "opportunities" can be incredibly influential in getting those acceptance letters (for your benefit: only when they're coupled with a strong GPA).

[Tacrolimus]

0.2 difference is actually 3.5 vs. 3.7, not 3.72 vs. 3.70.

 

Just sayin'.

[CapillaryWave]

0.2 difference is actually 3.5 vs. 3.7, not 3.72 vs. 3.70.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Oh wow, thank you for mentioning that! I'm typing on my phone and totally didn't process it the first time. I'll edit.

[rmorelan]

To be fair though, the undergraduate institution you attend could greatly influence the quality/quantity of activities you're eligible to participate in. Therefore, making it easier to make yourself a more competitive applicant. One of my good friends went to Harvard for undergraduate and came back to Canada for medical school, and although the name "Harvard" on her transcript probably didn't aide her application, the opportunities they provided for her most certainly did. I'm sure there must be some Canadian equivalencies to this?

 

maybe - although in Canada the universities are all publicly funded and roughly have similar quality - say compared to in particular the vast differences in US schools. The core set of ECs that most people follow are available at basically every school - research, clubs, athletics, work, community outreach, volunteering in health care.......

 

It is for this reason I think that in Canada for the most part you cannot just name drop your school and it have an automatic impact (except for niche programs - say Waterloo for computer science). It isn't like saying TO biology is going to have an earthshaking difference compared to the other schools.

[CapillaryWave]

maybe - although in Canada the universities are all publicly funded and roughly have similar quality - say compared to in particular the vast differences in US schools. The core set of ECs that most people follow are available at basically every school - research, clubs, athletics, work, community outreach, volunteering in health care.......

 

It is for this reason I think that in Canada for the most part you cannot just name drop your school and it have an automatic impact (except for niche programs - say Waterloo for computer science). It isn't like saying TO biology is going to have an earthshaking difference compared to the other schools.

 

I think that's a completely fair assessment.

 

From my own experiences, my undergraduate university/program played an important role in gaining admission to my now MD/PhD program. However, I realize there is a clear line between the admissions processes for MD/PhD programs and MD-only programs. I'm not really sure how extensive those differences are, since I had to "prep" for both simultaneously. Probably, when all is said and done, it's not black and white, and the things I did to gain admittance to graduate school (which were program specific) added to my medical school application, and vice versa..

[AshPreMed]

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up GPA? No one is denying its importance. But, it should almost be a given that someone who is genuinely serious and educated about medical school already has a competitive GPA or has a plan to achieve it. I'll admit that I'm a bit bias in this regard, but I've met lots of medical students who didn't want to get into "any" medical school, myself included. That doesn't mean that we wouldn't have been happy about getting an acceptance anywhere, but it's fair to say most people have top choices, and "opportunities" can be incredibly influential in getting those acceptance letters (for your benefit: only when they're coupled with a strong GPA).

 

Exactly. My point is made.