location incentive grant recipients?

[LifeIGuess]

Im curious if anyone here has applied and received a location incentive bursary to practice in an area of need? I received one but i was appalled to see that my bursary was considered as income as opposed to a bursary and i have been taxed on it...moreover, my osap has been recalculated as a result and the various grants as part of osap that i was receiving have been revoked...if someone has experienced this and has done something about it, i'd love to hear...thanks

[NLengr]

Yeah ROS bursaries are taxed as income. But you can get some/all back when you file your taxes.

[Real Beef]

Wow that sucks to lose the osap 'free' grants and any non-payable osap amount that you would of got if your osap would have been higher. If nothing else thanks for sharing so that others may become aware of this.

 

Beef

[NLengr]

The more I hear about it, the worse and worse OSAP seems to be. I'm some glad I never had to deal with them. Newfoundland (my home province) actually seems to want to help it's population get an education. Ontario....not so much.

[10wattbulb]

The more I hear about it, the worse and worse OSAP seems to be. I'm some glad I never had to deal with them. Newfoundland (my home province) actually seems to want to help it's population get an education. Ontario....not so much.

 

I have to agree with you on this. OSAP is very unrealistic and poorly designed for med students. They basically encourage us to be lazy and irresponsible because if we do any work, have any savings in our bank accounts, or try and get outside help with bursaries or whatnot, we're greatly penalized and receive considerably less assistance $. Just a couple of thousands of dollars more or less can make a big difference in terms of how much OSAP you receive! It's pretty ridiculous in my view! And if residencies are going to be increasing in length as some premeders have speculated in other threads, then we'll end up being more indebted for a longer period of time If this trend continues, med school will really become unaffordable for people coming from a lower income status, even with the nice bank loans we may get. OSAP's got to become a bit more realistic for med students with the tuition fees constantly going up! Annoyed with OSAP

[NLengr]

I have to agree with you on this. OSAP is very unrealistic and poorly designed for med students. They basically encourage us to be lazy and irresponsible because if we do any work, have any savings in our bank accounts, or try and get outside help with bursaries or whatnot, we're greatly penalized and receive considerably less assistance $. Just a couple of thousands of dollars more or less can make a big difference in terms of how much OSAP you receive! It's pretty ridiculous in my view! And if residencies are going to be increasing in length as some premeders have speculated in other threads, then we'll end up being more indebted for a longer period of time If this trend continues, med school will really become unaffordable for people coming from a lower income status, even with the nice bank loans we may get. OSAP's got to become a bit more realistic for med students with the tuition fees constantly going up! Annoyed with OSAP

 

If we bring in work hour limits, like people are naively pushing for now, you can almost guarantee residency will be longer.

 

I'm just glad I'll be done by that point and not have to do a 7 year residency (or however long it'll be in 5-10 years).

[BoyInTheBubble]

I have to agree with you on this. OSAP is very unrealistic and poorly designed for med students. They basically encourage us to be lazy and irresponsible because if we do any work, have any savings in our bank accounts, or try and get outside help with bursaries or whatnot, we're greatly penalized and receive considerably less assistance $. Just a couple of thousands of dollars more or less can make a big difference in terms of how much OSAP you receive! It's pretty ridiculous in my view! And if residencies are going to be increasing in length as some premeders have speculated in other threads, then we'll end up being more indebted for a longer period of time If this trend continues, med school will really become unaffordable for people coming from a lower income status, even with the nice bank loans we may get. OSAP's got to become a bit more realistic for med students with the tuition fees constantly going up! Annoyed with OSAP

 

Social assistance encourages people to be lazy and irresponsible? I know right,

 

If you're in med school now, you won't have to worry about your financial future. PGY1s get a pretty sweet entry level salary (and benefits). And then once you are finished, you have guaranteed income at a much higher level. Sucky situation for now? sure, but calling government benefits ridiculous is a bit dramatic in comparison to your (almost guaranteed) future earnings. Just keep riding the LOC and OSAP and whatever awards until the money comes piling in....

[LifeIGuess]

for me its been a pretty bad ordeal..i made a significant decision to relocate myself for the purpose of reducing education loans...unfortunately, what i view as an incentive for taking this grant is not what the govt views it as...they view it as an incentive for employment and hence consider it income, without caring that doing so will cause the provincial govt to revoke my bursaries as part of osap...there need to better and more logical bursary programs for professional programs...its like im not even benefiting of off this location incentive bursary anymore since a large part of what i gained was taken away by osap...defeats the purpose of the incentive doesnt it.

[10wattbulb]

for me its been a pretty bad ordeal..i made a significant decision to relocate myself for the purpose of reducing education loans...unfortunately, what i view as an incentive for taking this grant is not what the govt views it as...they view it as an incentive for employment and hence consider it income, without caring that doing so will cause the provincial govt to revoke my bursaries as part of osap...there need to better and more logical bursary programs for professional programs...its like im not even benefiting of off this location incentive bursary anymore since a large part of what i gained was taken away by osap...defeats the purpose of the incentive doesnt it.

 

Of course it does. But the worst is that OSAP is so poorly designed that it defeats the purpose of most incentives (getting bursaries, doing research during the summer, saving money, working to help pay off your studies, etc), and as NLengr and others are suggesting, there's a risk that residency programs become lengthier. Therefore, for those of us who have limited means and who are going to be taking $45,000+ of debt each year for the next 4 years to come, we're kind of feeling the pinch. And the worst is that many of us don't qualify for OSAP or qualify only for a small portion of it, so we have to rely almost 100% on our LOC. Fine, it's only 3% (or whatever prime is) of interest, but it adds up quickly over the years and it still makes a fine amount of $$$ to refund after 4+ years' time. I'm probably going to end up using a significant amount of LOC $$$, so I will be in the red for quite a while. There's also a good chance that the interest rate goes up during our studies.

 

And the residency salary is not that great; it's just your avg salary - see this link:

ONTARIO: PGY1 - $51,065, PGY2 - $59,608, PGY3 - $63,230

It's not with a $50-60,000 salary that you'll quickly pay back $180,000+ of debt! Don't forget that you still have expenses to pay while you're a resident (housing, food, you may need to buy a car, etc).

[10wattbulb]

for me its been a pretty bad ordeal..i made a significant decision to relocate myself for the purpose of reducing education loans...unfortunately, what i view as an incentive for taking this grant is not what the govt views it as...they view it as an incentive for employment and hence consider it income, without caring that doing so will cause the provincial govt to revoke my bursaries as part of osap...there need to better and more logical bursary programs for professional programs...its like im not even benefiting of off this location incentive bursary anymore since a large part of what i gained was taken away by osap...defeats the purpose of the incentive doesnt it.

 

Of course it does. But the worst is that OSAP is so poorly designed that it defeats the purpose of most incentives (getting bursaries, doing research during the summer, saving money, working to help pay off your studies, etc), and as NLengr and others are suggesting, there's a risk that residency programs become lengthier. Therefore, for those of us who have limited means and who are going to be taking $45,000+ of debt each year for the next 4 years to come, we're kind of feeling the pinch. And the worst is that many of us don't qualify for OSAP or qualify only for a small portion of it, so we have to rely almost 100% on our LOC. Fine, it's only 3% (or whatever prime is) of interest, but it adds up quickly over the years and it still makes a fine amount of $$$ to refund after 4+ years' time. I'm probably going to end up using a significant amount of LOC $$$, so I will be in the red for quite a while. There's also a good chance that the interest rate goes up during our studies.

 

And the residency salary is not that great; it's just your avg salary - see this link:

 

ONTARIO: PGY1 - $51,065, PGY2 - $59,608, PGY3 - $63,230

 

It's not with a $50-60,000 salary that you'll quickly pay back $180,000+ of debt! Don't forget that you still have expenses to pay while you're a resident (housing, food, you may need to buy a car, etc).

 

No joke: med school is very, very expensive and it takes quite a while to pay back your debts if you start off with little means.

[BoyInTheBubble]

And the residency salary is not that great; it's just your avg salary - see this link:

 

ONTARIO: PGY1 - $51,065, PGY2 - $59,608, PGY3 - $63,230

 

It's not with a $50-60,000 salary that you'll quickly pay back $180,000+ of debt! Don't forget that you still have expenses to pay while you're a resident (housing, food, you may need to buy a car, etc).

 

No joke: med school is very, very expensive and it takes quite a while to pay back your debts if you start off with little means.

 

The salary is guaranteed right after university. Your income will double - likely much more than double - on your first year post residency. Many people would consider that pretty great.

 

Taking on a huge debt is a sacrifice, but I guarantee it pays off (in the long run). Even "low paying" specialties even bring 180000+ a year. No, you won't make that loan disappear in one year, but it will go away.

 

 

 

...the Canadian average in 2012 was less than 50000...

[10wattbulb]

The salary is guaranteed right after university. Your income will double - likely much more than double - on your first year post residency. Many people would consider that pretty great.

 

Taking on a huge debt is a sacrifice, but I guarantee it pays off (in the long run). Even "low paying" specialties even bring 180000+ a year. No, you won't make that loan disappear in one year, but it will go away.

 

 

 

...the Canadian average in 2012 was less than 50000...

 

Yes, sooner or later all docs end up paying back their debts and earning nice salaries (no debate about that), but it's going to take me at least 6.5 years to pay back all my debts and to actually start earning net income. It's a lengthy period of time to be in debt for, and with the changes to the residency programs that may be implemented in 2017, I may well end up staying in debt for 7-8 years. Personally, I am a cautious person by nature, and I'd prefer having less debt off the bat and make slimmer salaries later on; that's just me though, and I hate to feel like I'm gambling with money that I don't even have but that I expect to have in several years' time.

 

In most other professions, you don't end up earning as much, but you also don't end up accumulating such huge debts right off the bat and studying for years and years on end.

 

Either way, I feel that it wouldn't be disadvantageous for OSAP to give greater loans to med students, to the contrary. If OSAP had a system for med students that ran more efficiently, they could actually make money with us (just like the bank does), and we would all be happier. Also, like LifeIGuess points out in his/her case, OSAP has effectively 'destroyed' his/her original incentive to go work in a location where they needed them. This is not good policy.

[BoyInTheBubble]

The incentives negating OSAP is stupid. I'll definitely agree on that. The good news is that the further you go into residency, you'll realize the amount of money out there that can be made is staggering.

 

If money/debt is an issue, don't take the incentive until you are done residency and then sell out to the highest bidder. Whether you go rural permanently or through locums, they are throwing tons of money at doctors. Although I assume this applies to the more general fields than specialized. Not much need for neuro surg in Northern Ontario, but family, emerge, general and common (eg cardio, gastro, etc) internal medicine, peds, obgyn, gen surg. They will throw moneybags your way. Honestly, even family docs can pull in 300-500 000, or more, with two years of residency! Debt cleared before supersubspecialists even finish residency. But they go rural and work hard, not for everyone.

[Real Beef]

The incentives negating OSAP is stupid. I'll definitely agree on that. The good news is that the further you go into residency, you'll realize the amount of money out there that can be made is staggering.

 

If money/debt is an issue, don't take the incentive until you are done residency and then sell out to the highest bidder. Whether you go rural permanently or through locums, they are throwing tons of money at doctors. Although I assume this applies to the more general fields than specialized. Not much need for neuro surg in Northern Ontario, but family, emerge, general and common (eg cardio, gastro, etc) internal medicine, peds, obgyn, gen surg. They will throw moneybags your way. Honestly, even family docs can pull in 300-500 000, or more, with two years of residency! Debt cleared before supersubspecialists even finish residency. But they go rural and work hard, not for everyone.

 

+1

 

I am entering my second year. Before school started I had significant anxiety about accumulating debt being in my 30s and have a more limited career then my early 20-something classmates. I have kept my debt reasonable. Going into second year my anxiety about debt has settled and I am not as worried as before school started. I am a bit more at peace with the whole thing.

 

There are two things you can do about stress .... 1) Do something about it if you can do something about, 2) If you cant do anything about it, dont worry about it - blow off some steam.

 

For number 1 - the debt of medical school is so enormous that honestly you CANT really do anything about it. You can work part time during the school year, work more than full time during the summers you have off. But med school debt will continue to steam roll over you no matter what you do ... so you may need to realize you can not control it while you are in med school.

 

Number 2 - This may be the better way of dealing with it so you dont burn yourself out with anxiety and financial stress. Be frugal, dont buy things you dont need, perhaps work a bit during the summer if you really want but realize that you need to let the stress go because there is NOTHING you can do about it at this point unless you sign up with the army and give them 4 years of your life post residency graduation. So while you may not want to be one of those carefree people who takes the whole summer off heading out to europe thanks to your LOC you will want to be someone who isnt obsessed about their debt at the moment so you stay sane.

 

I think a lot of people go through this. Once the romantic idea of getting in and going to medical school becomes a reality and the rosy haze wears off the reality of paying for and digging oneself into debt and indenturing yourself to 6-10 years of medical training without great reward is daunting. Relax you'll be fine. Imagine if you were accepted into medical school but financing wasnt there and you couldnt pursue your dream of medicine or imagine being in the US where you can be kicked out of medical school for failing while in Canada you keep getting more and more assistance and slack until you eventually pass. Being in the US, flunked out of medicine with 200-300k of debt would be worse then what you will have to go through making 350,000k a year with 160k in debt along with the many government incentives available at the tail end of the journey.

 

Beef