Average IQ of Canadian Medical Students?

[NeuroPreMed]

Ok, let's be real here. Some people are gorgeous and some people are not. Similarly, the brain is a physical object, some have a good one and some don't. For some people, no matter how much discipline and dedication, they sometimes fall short. The beauty is that the system is fair in giving everyone an equal shot. Can you blame someone for their lack of focus/discipline when they can't help but constantly get side tracked (say ADHD) when others do not suffer from that problem?

 

Without a doubt the worst excuse ever. There was a kid in my class who had to take exams in different rooms because of his ADHD, with that being said I did not see him get lower than 95%.

[nem90]

Without a doubt the worst excuse ever. There was a kid in my class who had to take exams in different rooms because of his ADHD, with that being said I did not see him get lower than 95%.

 

How about people with far more superior memories and processing speeds? Obviously, success will come to them more easily.

[NeuroPreMed]

How about people with far more superior memories and processing speeds? Obviously, success will come to them more easily.

 

I have yet to state that success does not come easier for some. All I have said was that regardless of an IQ of 100, or an IQ of 150, anyone if they put in the time can do whatever it is they choose to do. People with disorders are still very much capable of obtaining higher grades than anyone else, as I've already stated above.

[1337]

Ok, let's be real here. Some people are gorgeous and some people are not. Similarly, the brain is a physical object, some have a good one and some don't. For some people, no matter how much discipline and dedication, they sometimes fall short. The beauty is that the system is fair in giving everyone an equal shot. Can you blame someone for their lack of focus/discipline when they can't help but constantly get side tracked (say ADHD) when others do not suffer from that problem?

 

I agree with nem90.

[m30wc0w]

What the hell do people mean by intelligence. I've always wondered this. Ever since my grade 6 teacher approached me with the idea that I'm a gifted kid, I always wondered what the **** they meant. I think it's just an effusive concept that holds no water and is a convenient way to create a link between academic achievement and individual differences.

[NeuroPreMed]

What the hell do people mean by intelligence. I've always wondered this. Ever since my grade 6 teacher approached me with the idea that I'm a gifted kid, I always wondered what the **** they meant. I think it's just an effusive concept that holds no water and is a convenient way to create a link between academic achievement and individual differences.

 

You could take the definition, "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills". But for the most part I agree with you. I think it's mostly a way for humans to tell themselves they are homo neanderthalensis amongst homo sapiens, anything that makes you better I suppose...

[empath88]

What is your opinion?

 

FYI - I know a high IQ does NOT actually make a good physician but I think it is important in terms of completing education requirements (high undergrad GPA, MCAT, and not burning out in med school).

I think 130 is about right for an average. Maybe lower at 125 for lesser known schools.These days med school is extremely competitive and you need those high MCAT scores.

 

How about people with far more superior memories and processing speeds? Obviously, success will come to them more easily.

Don't bother nem90. There is a subset of people who can't grasp the notion that ability is real and it differs widely between individuals. There is no sense in trying to convince such people with logic because equality is a dogmatic belief that has been inculcated into them since birth. You'll have better luck convincing a creationist that there is no man in the sky. Sadly, even high IQ individuals themselves may not be exempt from believing this.

 

As far as high IQ goes, it makes things much easier. Much much easier. Knew a girl I went to undergrad with who towered at something like 160 and possessed some kind of photographic memory. She could just sit in on class and absorb everything in one go. Never used any textbooks. At most she'd review lecture slides the night before term tests. Graduated with a 4.0 in physics and chemistry. Hard work my @ss. Actually, she spent most of her time in college fvcking random people and binge drinking then going to work at Sick Kids. Spent one week studying for MCATs and scored a 45.

 

Now, this girl was extraordinary and you don't need to be this kind of genius to get into a Canadian med school. But there is a certain degree of innate ability required to keep up with the pace of undergrad and med school and many people are uncomfortable accepting that. As life sci. students you should know how genetics work.

[silenceofthelambs]

I think 130 is about right for an average. Maybe lower at 125 for lesser known schools.These days med school is extremely competitive and you need those high MCAT scores.

 

 

Don't bother nem90. There is a subset of people who can't grasp the notion that ability is real and it differs widely between individuals. There is no sense in trying to convince such people with logic because equality is a dogmatic belief that has been inculcated into them since birth. You'll have better luck convincing a creationist that there is no man in the sky. Sadly, even high IQ individuals themselves may not be exempt from believing this.

 

As far as high IQ goes, it makes things much easier. Much much easier. Knew a girl I went to undergrad with who towered at something like 160 and possessed some kind of photographic memory. She could just sit in on class and absorb everything in one go. Never used any textbooks. At most she'd review lecture slides the night before term tests. Graduated with a 4.0 in physics and chemistry. Hard work my @ss. Actually, she spent most of her time in college fvcking random people and binge drinking then going to work at Sick Kids. Spent one week studying for MCATs and scored a 45.

 

Now, this girl was extraordinary and you don't need to be this kind of genius to get into a Canadian med school. But there is a certain degree of innate ability required to keep up with the pace of undergrad and med school and many people are uncomfortable accepting that. As life sci. students you should know how genetics work.

 

Lol. A 130 is the 97.5%ile. There is no way that this is true, medicine isn't that competitive. Nothing is. A quick Google search had a daily mail article staying that the IQ of physicians was only 11% above normal. So less than 115, but I didn't read their source yet.

[empath88]

Lol. A 130 is the 97.5%ile. There is no way that this is true, medicine isn't that competitive. Nothing is. A quick Google search had a daily mail article staying that the IQ of physicians was only 11% above normal. So less than 115, but I didn't read their source yet.

I don't dispute most medical practitioners today are not too far from 115 on average. They can come from foreign schools such as the Caribbean or be a little bit older when less people went to post-secondary school and didn't have a pool of bright immigrants to compete with.

 

But we are talking about getting INTO Canadian medical schools TODAY. The minimum MCAT score for anyone to consider you is a 30, already one standard deviation above the COLLEGE population, which itself has already been selected for being above average. That's the MINIMUM, ie.cutoff. Medicine and law are the most competitive professions, though law degrees are handed out like candy so the school you go to actually matters.

[NeuroPreMed]

Lol. A 130 is the 97.5%ile. There is no way that this is true, medicine isn't that competitive. Nothing is. A quick Google search had a daily mail article staying that the IQ of physicians was only 11% above normal. So less than 115, but I didn't read their source yet.

 

yeah exactly. 130 is your second standard deviation with a 98th percentile.

On top of all of this, IQ tests are still not a total answer to intelligence.

[a1b1]

IQ does not equal intelligence, and being in medical school in no way constitutes that you are smart (you should see some of the people in my class).

 

Getting into med school really only shows that you knew how to play the game and land yourself an acceptance. There are people who i consider superior in terms of intellect than me from undergrad who did not get in, simply because they made a mistake somewhere (either in their application or during their undergrad).

[empath88]

yeah exactly. 130 is your second standard deviation with a 98th percentile.

On top of all of this, IQ tests are still not a total answer to intelligence.

So? That's 1 in 50 of all people. That is a very large pool.

 

I would agree that IQ tests don't capture everything there is to intelligence. But the superficial component they do measure does predict academic achievement. And higher IQ pupils will have higher grades, higher MCATs, with less effort on average which would allow them to polish social and extracurricular elements of their application.

 

IQ does not equal intelligence, and being in medical school in no way constitutes that you are smart (you should see some of the people in my class).

What school? And how do you know they are not smart? A lot of gifted individuals don't appear all that competent at first glance.

[a1b1]

=

 

What school? And how do you know they are not smart? A lot of gifted individuals don't appear all that competent at first glance.

 

You do have a good point, but when one of your classmates falls into an alcohol induced coma at a party after the first day of school, I would not call that smart.

 

And yes that did actually happen.

[NeuroPreMed]

So? That's 1 in 50 of all people. That is a very large pool.

 

I would agree that IQ tests don't capture everything there is to intelligence. But the superficial component they do measure does predict academic achievement. And higher IQ pupils will have higher grades, higher MCATs, with less effort on average which would allow them to polish social and extracurricular elements of their application.

 

 

What school? And how do you know they are not smart? A lot of gifted individuals don't appear all that competent at first glance.

 

98th percentile means that there is 2 percent of the population that is smarter than you, so with all the numbers, yeah 1 in 50. Which could be put into simple perspectives. This topic has what? 40 replies? Give it some more discussion and an IQ test would tell me that at least 1 person is more intelligent than I am. Correlation does not equal causation. That's one of the first things you learn. Because I score 130 on an IQ test does not mean I'm intelligent. It could mean I knew how they test. It could mean I got lucky. I can somewhat agree that if someone scores say 130, and someone scores say 90 that more than likely, but not guaranteed, the 130 will pick things up easier. IQ tests essentially tests 4 components: Verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory, and processing speed. Processing speed and verbal comprehension alone can be be improved by reading. Reading does not make me a genius, but it could potentially raise my scores to say I am. I know people in med who like a1b1 I think to be intellectually superior to me, does that mean I couldn't potentially destroy them when it comes to the MCAT? Probably not. I have a psych prof who if he was given an IQ test because he knows exactly how they test could probably score in the 170s, but he and I both have discussed how we know he isn't that intelligent. You can train "spatial reasoning" does that mean I'm going to understand orgo without looking at it?

[holiday1001]

my Grade 7 teacher's favourite quote: "Intelligence does not equal effortlessness."

[empath88]

You do have a good point, but when one of your classmates falls into an alcohol induced coma at a party after the first day of school, I would not call that smart.

 

And yes that did actually happen.

 

I believe you. I told you about that girl I knew who had unprotected sex at least 3 days a week with complete strangers. Not very safe or smart either. Didn't change the fact that she owned me in orgo and PDEs.

 

98th percentile means that there is 2 percent of the population that is smarter than you, so with all the numbers, yeah 1 in 50. Which could be put into simple perspectives. This topic has what? 40 replies? Give it some more discussion and an IQ test would tell me that at least 1 person is more intelligent than I am. Correlation does not equal causation. That's one of the first things you learn. Because I score 130 on an IQ test does not mean I'm intelligent. It could mean I knew how they test. It could mean I got lucky. I can somewhat agree that if someone scores say 130, and someone scores say 90 that more than likely, but not guaranteed, the 130 will pick things up easier. IQ tests essentially tests 4 components: Verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory, and processing speed. Processing speed and verbal comprehension alone can be be improved by reading. Reading does not make me a genius, but it could potentially raise my scores to say I am. I know people in med who like a1b1 I think to be intellectually superior to me, does that mean I couldn't potentially destroy them when it comes to the MCAT? Probably not. I have a psych prof who if he was given an IQ test because he knows exactly how they test could probably score in the 170s, but he and I both have discussed how we know he isn't that intelligent. You can train "spatial reasoning" does that mean I'm going to understand orgo without looking at it?

IQ tests aren't flawless obviously. But they are the best thing we have and have shown to be valid and reliable for close to a century. You can cheat with practice on an IQ test by practicing similar questions to get a better score, but you would only be making the test less accurate at estimating your IQ. If everyone practiced it, and it wouldn't take long to reach a plateau, you'd find the same bell curve shape would re-emerge. The aim of an IQ test is obviously to introduce novel questions where everyone has the same basic skill set. MCAT is a function of intelligence and memorization, so obviously someone who studies for 6 months might be able to outperform someone with more aptitude who studied less.

 

I think it's tragic that some people slave away their most formative years to prove to themselves they are just as good. Our society should not push the notion that academic success is a measure of worth. We should embrace different talents and skill sets and make the best of them. The acceptance rate to med is something like 10-20%. I suspect a large portion of those people get a rude awakening when they discover they they are not cut out for it and should have probably pursued something more realistic.

[NeuroPreMed]

I believe you. I told you about that girl I knew who had unprotected sex at least 3 days a week with complete strangers. Not very safe or smart either. Didn't change the fact that she owned me in orgo and PDEs.

 

 

IQ tests aren't flawless obviously. But they are the best thing we have and have shown to be valid and reliable for close to a century. You can cheat with practice on an IQ test by practicing similar questions to get a better score, but you would only be making the test less accurate at estimating your IQ. If everyone practiced it, and it wouldn't take long to reach a plateau, you'd find the same bell curve shape would re-emerge. The aim of an IQ test is obviously to introduce novel questions where everyone has the same basic skill set. MCAT is a function of intelligence and memorization, so obviously someone who studies for 6 months might be able to outperform someone with more aptitude who studied less.

 

I think it's tragic that some people slave away their most formative years to prove to themselves they are just as good. Our society should not push the notion that academic success is a measure of worth. We should embrace different talents and skill sets and make the best of them. The acceptance rate to med is something like 10-20%. I suspect a large portion of those people get a rude awakening when they discover they they are not cut out for it and should have probably pursued something more realistic.

 

I agree, I'm actually writing a paper right now on how our system has failed it's children by putting emphasis on being the "perfect child" and not being your own unique person. However, you say that if the acceptance is 10%, that doesn't necessarily mean that 90% weren't competent. People with 4.0s get declined all the time, does that mean they weren't being realistic? They had the smarts just lacked something else.

[Orcamute]

This thread is so full of pretentious b.s that it makes me sick.

 

I want to burn this thread.

 

I apologize to all the patients out there that already feel distance between their doctor due to these elitist mentalities and close minded stereotypes. We don't all have our heads up our ***.. please keep that in mind.

[NeuroPreMed]

This thread is so full of pretentious b.s that it makes me sick.

 

I want to burn this thread.

 

I apologize to all the patients out there that already feel distance between their doctor due to these elitist mentalities and close minded stereotypes. We don't all have our heads up our ***.. please keep that in mind.

 

I never once once said I was superior to anyone?

[Orcamute]

You posted that graph, you're just as bad.

[NeuroPreMed]

You posted that graph, you're just as bad.

 

Excuse me? I posted an interesting photo? I posted what the average job is. If you read what I posted you would have realized I don't even believe in IQ scores.

[Silverwolf1277]

You posted that graph, you're just as bad.

 

lol how can you get mad at someone for posting a factual piece of information. Regardless of what you think about IQ, the veracity of what is represented on that graph is unchanged.

[FailureInLife]

pretty sure the people thinking IQ doesn't exist have double digit IQ themselves. the person with higher marks/mcat scores don't just study more than you, let's be real, they're just born smarter than you. not sure why people are disagreeing with a simple concept. not impossible to have a high gpa with low IQ but you will probably have to study 10 times more than the person with 130 iq. I also know minor learning disabilities (i've tutored people in math) are also innate, nothing you can do about being bad at math. some people just can't see numbers in their brain (one of my closest friends just can NOT do math, but he is gifted in drawing and grahpics design)

 

looks = genetics

testosterone level = genetics

metabolism = genetics

brain = genetics

your life = genetics

[SunAndMoon]

pretty sure the people thinking IQ doesn't exist have double digit IQ themselves. the person with higher marks/mcat scores don't just study more than you, let's be real, they're just born smarter than you. not sure why people are disagreeing with a simple concept. not impossible to have a high gpa with low IQ but you will probably have to study 10 times more than the person with 130 iq. I also know minor learning disabilities (i've tutored people in math) are also innate, nothing you can do about being bad at math. some people just can't see numbers in their brain (one of my closest friends just can NOT do math, but he is gifted in drawing and grahpics design)

 

looks = genetics

testosterone level = genetics

metabolism = genetics

brain = genetics

your life = genetics

 

Weak troll

[NeuroPreMed]

pretty sure the people thinking IQ doesn't exist have double digit IQ themselves. the person with higher marks/mcat scores don't just study more than you, let's be real, they're just born smarter than you. not sure why people are disagreeing with a simple concept. not impossible to have a high gpa with low IQ but you will probably have to study 10 times more than the person with 130 iq. I also know minor learning disabilities (i've tutored people in math) are also innate, nothing you can do about being bad at math. some people just can't see numbers in their brain (one of my closest friends just can NOT do math, but he is gifted in drawing and grahpics design)

 

looks = genetics

testosterone level = genetics

metabolism = genetics

brain = genetics

your life = genetics

 

Life isn't all genetics.

As well, IQ still isn't completely genetics. Depending on parents you could potentially have an IQ between 90 and 130. Depending on if you educate yourself or sit on a couch it will alter. Some people may have a possible IQ between 125 and 150.

I'm not disproving IQ. I'm saying it isn't as accurate as people think it is. Your IQ drops during summer months. Your IQ peaks around March/April. If you take more tests you do better. There are way too many variables to make it as accurate as some people think it is.

I'm not for one second saying that if someone has say an 80 IQ they would do worse with the same amount of studying as someone with 130. I'm saying you can't go around saying "I have 130 IQ" and think you're superior, because tons of factors could change it, maybe making it 120, or even 140.