U of T class size increase

[Smurf33]

It is a great idea to increase the size of Dentistry class as long it preserves the quality of education. More people will be able to pursue the education of their choice.

 

However, those that wish to limit competition by restricting the number of eligible dentists allowed to practice in Canada are not thinking about the community as a whole. Sure, more Dentists would limit remuneration in urban areas. However, many smaller communities in Canada will finally get a Dentist.

[mrewmrew]

It is a great idea to increase the size of Dentistry class as long it preserves the quality of education. More people will be able to pursue the education of their choice.

 

However, those that wish to limit competition by restricting the number of eligible dentists allowed to practice in Canada are not thinking about the community as a whole. Sure, more Dentists would limit remuneration in urban areas. However, many smaller communities in Canada will finally get a Dentist.

 

Every community in Ontario, even the rural areas, is either already adequately serviced or oversaturated. This is according to a speaker from the ODA.

[Ostracized]

It is a great idea to increase the size of Dentistry class as long it preserves the quality of education. More people will be able to pursue the education of their choice.

 

However, those that wish to limit competition by restricting the number of eligible dentists allowed to practice in Canada are not thinking about the community as a whole. Sure, more Dentists would limit remuneration in urban areas. However, many smaller communities in Canada will finally get a Dentist.

 

I highly doubt that there is a single town in Canada with more than 2000 people that doesn't have a dentist.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Anyone have any information on what this means in regards to the number of invites for interviews being sent out this cycle?

[uncooling]

nothing will change.

 

They said they are not increasing enrollment, just got a confirmation from their office.

[mrewmrew]

What's the current class size? 84? If they're really increasing to 120 over two years that's just insane

[cooldude4]

Based on feedback by friends who went through both the U of T and UWO dental school programs, the increase in class size will put a radical strain on the student's already limited ability to get clinical experience due to lack of chairs/patients. While in the U.S. people are on waiting lists to get treated in dental school clinics, here students are competing to get exposure to the cases they need to practice on before graduation. Bigger class sizes without a radical change/improvement in clinic admin is disastrous

[Ostracized]

Based on feedback by friends who went through both the U of T and UWO dental school programs, the increase in class size will put a radical strain on the student's already limited ability to get clinical experience due to lack of chairs/patients. While in the U.S. people are on waiting lists to get treated in dental school clinics, here students are competing to get exposure to the cases they need to practice on before graduation. Bigger class sizes without a radical change/improvement in clinic admin is disastrous

 

Oh yeah. Certain procedures like root canals were notoriously difficult to get. Even if you finish your requirement you graduate without confidence because you've done so few. I was talking to an NYU grad and she had about 4-5 times the numbers of crowns, endos, prostho cases that we did.

 

Anyway, I doubt that the class will increase to 120. There simply aren't enough chairs in the clinics for 40 additional D3/D4s.

[paradoxxx9]

so are they increasing or not??

[UWOStudent89]

someone asked UofT and they said no. so Im assuming they're not increasing?

[uncooling]

so are they increasing or not??

 

I asked them through email and they said they are not increasing. So I guess they're not?

[paradoxxx9]

no one else got confirmation?

[uncooling]

they said they don't have enough seat in the clinic so they're not increasing anytime soon

[UWOStudent89]

they said they don't have enough seat in the clinic so they're not increasing anytime soon

 

It's good to know.

 

I really doubted they could increase the seats at this point

[tksm8727]

I would take the info re number of seats in the clinic with a grain of salt.

U of T class size used to be 128...same clinic

I think there is plenty of room if this is what they want to do.

We'll see

[mrewmrew]

I would take the info re number of seats in the clinic with a grain of salt.

U of T class size used to be 128...same clinic

I think there is plenty of room if this is what they want to do.

We'll see

 

Do you happen to know the reason behind the historical decrease in class size? It's currently 44 less than that.

[Ostracized]

It's not 44 less it is about 96 people graduating per year now (as of 2012) including IDAPP. They decreased the class size to current levels after they renovated the school about 20 years ago. At the time they chose a smaller class size that met a decreasing demand for dentists (as compared to actual shortages in the 60s and 70s).

 

Ironically, the reason why they have considered raising class sizes now is because it will increase revenue while being a drop in the bucket in terms of country-wide increases. In other words, if we're already licensing too many dentists, what's 20 more?

[tksm8727]

At the time, the general opinion was that there were too many dentists (just like what is being discussed here). The porblem with that thinking is that U of T and Western then began with the qualifying program that brought the number of students back up. The difference was that rather than having Canadian undergrads comprising the TOTAL class size, it became a mixture of Canadian undergrads and foreign trained dentists.

The message that I take from this is that I think we are fooling ourselves if we accept clinic size as the limiting factor. I feel it goes much deeper than that. If the changes in requirements for foreign dentists is true, I would expect a decrease in the qualifying program. In order to bring the class size number back up to offset this, it would make sense to increase the undergrad class size.

Personally, I hope the number goes up so that I have a better chance of getting in.

[mrewmrew]

Good to know they're actually motivated to control the amount of dentists in Canada, one way or another. With all the reciprocal agreements and foreign licensing procedures I was under the impression that they didn't care at all about the number of dentists.

[UWOStudent89]

I would take the info re number of seats in the clinic with a grain of salt.

U of T class size used to be 128...same clinic

I think there is plenty of room if this is what they want to do.

We'll see

 

they said clinic size is why they're not increasing anymore. So are they just lying???

[StriveP]

It's clear the faculty needs money. Maybe they need a better dean to manage their money and make better decisions...

[cleanup]

There are a few reasons why U of T needs money.

 

1) Everything gets funnelled into research

2) A lack of alumni donations because everyone hates the school (not realy kidding here; the grand majority of alumni hated their time here and have little incenive to give back)

3) Running a dental school is naturally extremely expensive

4) Everything gets funnelled into research.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

There are a few reasons why U of T needs money.

 

1) Everything gets funnelled into research

2) A lack of alumni donations because everyone hates the school (not realy kidding here; the grand majority of alumni hated their time here and have little incenive to give back)

3) Running a dental school is naturally extremely expensive

4) Everything gets funnelled into research.

 

LOL at 2)

 

Can't say I haven't heard this is the case, though. Even from older, established dentists.

[richuurd]

LOL at 2)

 

Can't say I haven't heard this is the case, though. Even from older, established dentists.

 

I threw out a dull 7901 bur in ortho and they withheld my tags for doing that. They wanted $300 to replace it. I went through my sharps container to retrieve it for them - they said it was unacceptable. I went through other sharps containers and gathered 5 other 7901 burs and shoved them to the dispensary. I got my tags back. Good times. 

[Ostracized]

Here's another problem I have with the class size increase. It is going to be negatively affecting the clinical experience. Example: root canal procedures have always been difficult to get enough of. In my year we had to do 5 root canals including 1 molar. From what I've heard talking to students the requirement is now 4, and some students will never do a molar root canal before graduating (except on extracted teeth).

 

When the class size increases, will that number go down to 3 root canals? I can say as a UofT grad that endodontics is by far my weakest skill set, and newer grads will be even worse off.

 

Also, UofT is removing it's undergrad clinical orthodontics program. I got to treat an ortho patient from start to finish, whereas new students will only learn theory. Many GP dentists will want to incorporate some ortho into their practices (I have) and hands on experience in dental school is priceless.