Evening Organic Chemistry courses?

[MathewsMD]

Hi,

 

I'm currently looking into taking Organic Chemistry I and II in the summer. I'm planning on working so an evening course would be optimal. I know it's a little early and I've actually called up a few schools but they don't have their schedules ready yet. I was just wondering if anyone knows of regularly offered evening courses for Organic Chemistry I and II in the summer. I'm mainly looking to go to York since it's close but any schools near the GTA would be fine as well. Also, I've began looking at online options. If anyone could comment on their experiences with Organic Chemistry in the summer in general as well, either online or not, that would be great!

 

Thanks!

[JohnDakota]

Most universities don't offer courses that require lab components in the summer, unfortunately.

 

You might luck out in the GTA - seeing as there's such a larger market there vs. most other Canadian cities - but every university I've attended (uOttawa, Brock, and now Mt. Allison) don't offer classes in the summer if they require lab components.

[mrewmrew]

Western offers full orgo I and II + lab components in the summer. It basically takes your whole summer though and it's definitely not an evening course. I think my friends had 8:30 class everyday + 3 hour afternoon labs every week.

[MathewsMD]

Most universities don't offer courses that require lab components in the summer, unfortunately.

 

You might luck out in the GTA - seeing as there's such a larger market there vs. most other Canadian cities - but every university I've attended (uOttawa, Brock, and now Mt. Allison) don't offer classes in the summer if they require lab components.

 

Hmm..never really thought of that. I actually called York and they said they regularly do have a lab component offered, though.

[MathewsMD]

Western offers full orgo I and II + lab components in the summer. It basically takes your whole summer though and it's definitely not an evening course. I think my friends had 8:30 class everyday + 3 hour afternoon labs every week.

 

Okay. I would probably apply for jobs accordingly with the Organic Chemistry schedule since otherwise I will not be able to complete the courses required for year 3. I may be able to get a job that starts later or maybe I can sort something out early with an employer...this is my reasoning for asking about the courses in advance. I won't be able to take the courses at Western but it was just one class a day, everyday at 8:30 am for one hour, right? Plus labs weekly? I think this should be fine going forward with a job, hopefully I can find a schedule that allows it.

[MathewsMD]

Does anyone have any experience taking Organic Chemistry online?

[equus]

Does anyone have any experience taking Organic Chemistry online?

 

I took both Orgo I and II online during the summer through Athabasca, and did the corresponding labs at McMaster. I honestly wouldn't recommend it unless you're exceptionally good at independent learning; Athabasca literally just mails you a textbook and tells you to learn everything on your own, then write the exam. I spent 3 months on each of the orgo courses (I took orgo I in summer 2012 and orgo II in summer 2013); in summer 2012 I was also working full-time, and in summer 2013 I was also studying for the MCAT. It's doable, and I got decent marks, but it will completely take over your summer and if you run into trouble on any topic...good luck, because the "tutors" that Athabasca assigns you are virtually useless.

 

Feel free to ask me any more questions about taking orgo through Athabasca!

[MathewsMD]

I took both Orgo I and II online during the summer through Athabasca, and did the corresponding labs at McMaster. I honestly wouldn't recommend it unless you're exceptionally good at independent learning; Athabasca literally just mails you a textbook and tells you to learn everything on your own, then write the exam. I spent 3 months on each of the orgo courses (I took orgo I in summer 2012 and orgo II in summer 2013); in summer 2012 I was also working full-time, and in summer 2013 I was also studying for the MCAT. It's doable, and I got decent marks, but it will completely take over your summer and if you run into trouble on any topic...good luck, because the "tutors" that Athabasca assigns you are virtually useless.

 

Feel free to ask me any more questions about taking orgo through Athabasca!

 

Thank you for the explanation! I'm actually planning on completing just Organic Chemistry I and II this summer--not studying for the MCAT or anything else--while working full time.

 

An online course seems attractive since transportation may definitely become an issue, and this is my primary reason for considering Athabasca. In general, how much time did you allot for the course per day? I plan on working an 8-5 job and keeping up with this one course doesn't seem too bad. Although a person to explain the material was not available, do you feel like you generally grasped and understood all the content? Were the assessments easy/difficult? Would you say you would learn more by taking it normally in an actual class?

 

Also, it's not a big deal, but for the labs, how were they? From what I understand, they require two full days at McMaster, and if I'm completing both Organic Chemistry I and II, I'll lose 4 days of work right there. Did you disclose this to your employer well in advance and tell him/her that you were actually taking a course? Also, since the labs are not offered directly from Athabasca, are they just considered as a completion and not actually calculated in any way with your final grade in the course?

 

Any tips or additional comments on the workload would great! Thanks again!

[rmorelan]

I did take organic in the summer at Guelph awhile back, so some schools did/do offer it. Organic is also a DE course at Waterloo with the lab actually being a separate course. Can help with timing.

[equus]

Thank you for the explanation! I'm actually planning on completing just Organic Chemistry I and II this summer--not studying for the MCAT or anything else--while working full time.

 

An online course seems attractive since transportation may definitely become an issue, and this is my primary reason for considering Athabasca. In general, how much time did you allot for the course per day? I plan on working an 8-5 job and keeping up with this one course doesn't seem too bad. Although a person to explain the material was not available, do you feel like you generally grasped and understood all the content? Were the assessments easy/difficult? Would you say you would learn more by taking it normally in an actual class?

 

Also, it's not a big deal, but for the labs, how were they? From what I understand, they require two full days at McMaster, and if I'm completing both Organic Chemistry I and II, I'll lose 4 days of work right there. Did you disclose this to your employer well in advance and tell him/her that you were actually taking a course? Also, since the labs are not offered directly from Athabasca, are they just considered as a completion and not actually calculated in any way with your final grade in the course?

 

Any tips or additional comments on the workload would great! Thanks again!

 

Doing orgo I AND II AND having a full-time job during the summer would be difficult. Learning the material is incredibly time-consuming; you have to take notes from the textbook, do tons of practice questions, assignments, and self-tests. The first course covers about 600 pages of the textbook (and you have to know EVERYTHING). As well, timing might be an issue; you can't register in orgo II until you've written the final exam for orgo I and all your assignments have been submitted, so unless you make a huge effort to stay on top of things, you likely won't have time in the summer to complete both courses.

 

I didn't find the material too difficult to understand, especially in orgo I, but it was definitely extremely time-consuming and sometimes insanely tough to memorize all the little reactions and mechanisms. I made flash cards for every reaction, and by the time I finished, I had literally HUNDREDS of reactions that at one point I had memorized. The final exams are cumulative, which means that you have to remember EVERYTHING from the entire course. While the assignments were easy, the exams were killer.

 

The labs are a complete joke. If you do them at McMaster, you're just graded pass/fail on the labs to earn the lab component for the course (after which the course evaluation will change, making the exams and assignments worth more to make up for the fact that your labs weren't marked, which they would be if you did them in Alberta). The labs really do take up 4 entire days. My employer at the time was understanding, since I really couldn't get out of the situation.

[futurepediatric]

I took both Orgo I and II online during the summer through Athabasca, and did the corresponding labs at McMaster. I honestly wouldn't recommend it unless you're exceptionally good at independent learning; Athabasca literally just mails you a textbook and tells you to learn everything on your own, then write the exam. I spent 3 months on each of the orgo courses (I took orgo I in summer 2012 and orgo II in summer 2013); in summer 2012 I was also working full-time, and in summer 2013 I was also studying for the MCAT. It's doable, and I got decent marks, but it will completely take over your summer and if you run into trouble on any topic...good luck, because the "tutors" that Athabasca assigns you are virtually useless.

 

Feel free to ask me any more questions about taking orgo through Athabasca!

 

I also took both orgo I and II with Athabasca over the summer and labs at McMaster. I would also never recommend it to anyone. It was literally the worst academic experience I have ever had and the most stressful experience I have ever had (and I don't get stressed very easily).

 

The main reason it was a bad experience for me was because I had to redo the exams multiple times. The exams were filled with tonnes of errors (which my TA told me but did not care and did not compensate for it at all - she even admitted that it had been a long time now that the exams had been filled with errors) which meant that I had to redo the exams. This was obviously very stressful for me because it ruined all my plans for the summer. Additionally, when there is an error in an exam where there is no prof and no other students writing the exam, it was be quite confusing and frustrating. I also had to pay a supplemental exam fee for redoing the exam, even though it was their fault it was filled with errors. Additionally my exam got lost in the mail and I was forced to redo the exam after I forgot everything, almost a month after I had finished the course (and that was my second time redoing it) - not to mention they charged me a supplemental fee again for something that was not my fault!!

 

Despite this, I know there are people who have had good experiences with Athabasca and this course and after the first course I had with Athabasca, I would have recommended it to everyone because of what a great experience I had. Thus, I think a lot of it depends on luck, and if you run into a problem, in my experience, you are pretty much screwed. I have also met quite a few others (from the McMaster labs) who also had bad experiences with it, so while it may not be likely, I'm sure it's not rare either.

 

Last note is the cost of the course - Athabasca is a total rip off when it comes to the money they charge you. Firstly, the course comes with labs if you fly to Alberta, but if you do the labs at McMaster they are $800 and Athabasca does not cover any portion of the cost even though you are not using their lab. Secondly, the cost of a course is $800 - supposedly $600 for the course and $200 for the books. For Orgo I you will be charged $800 and given the books for the both orgo I and II (1 textbook for both parts). However when you take the second part of orgo, they will still charge you $800 for that course and not give you any books. And good luck trying to get your $ back. Thirdly, like I mentioned above, you will also be charged a supplemental fee of $50 every time you redo an exam even fi it not your fault, like if it gets lost in the mail or has tonnes of error. Also note that you have to pay for invigilation (Athabasca does not cover those costly). Also note that if you want to write an exam less than 20 days before you write it, it will cost $50. These are just some of the fees I wish I knew about before I started, but I was fortunate because my parents were covering the costs.

 

All in all, although I got an 85+ on both courses, I would never recommend this course to anyone, even though I have had a good experience with Athabasca before, it is just not worth the risk of all the trouble I went through, especially when you are aiming for medicine, and time and grades are pretty important - you can't just spend your whole summer redoing exams because of these silly and easily preventable things. If I could do it all over again, I would do it at Western - it is the most appealing option for me.

 

Sorry for the bad grammar, etc. I'm writing this in a rush b/c I have exams, but I hope whichever decision you make ends up working well for you!

[equus]

Additionally my exam got lost in the mail and I was forced to redo the exam after I forgot everything, almost a month after I had finished the course (and that was my second time redoing it) - not to mention they charged me a supplemental fee again for something that was not my fault!!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that my final exam for orgo I was also lost in the mail...Fortunately, my tutor "found" it on her desk 3 months later so I didn't have to rewrite it.

 

And I agree that the course fees are a HUGE rip-off.

 

Honestly, I would only ever take a course through Athabasca if there were absolutely no other options.

[MathewsMD]

Wow. Thank you for the replies! You've definitely given me a lot to think about. York University would be the closest option for me but transportation would be a problem, especially if I was to have a job. I also didn't actually realize you can't enrol in the courses consecutively (it makes sense, though) and this could definitely affect my schedule during the summer if anything is filled in advance.

 

All those extra fees...yikes. I understand you have to pay money just like any normal course, but the extra $800 for both labs on top of the original $1600 for the courses themselves certainly makes it unappealing.

 

Since the course is condensed (well, I would try to finish it in about 2 months) it definitely would be a lot of work but I do think it's manageable still. It's just all the extra hassle/fees you've detailed that makes me weary.

 

Once again, thank you for all the input! It's definitely been informative and I'll definitely take what you've all said into consideration!

 

Also, any tips for a student who's enrolled in Organic Chemistry I or II at Athabasca in terms avoiding/making the most of these situation? Are there any other places in the GTA you would recommend as well?

[MathewsMD]

So I've been looking around and came across online Organic Chemistry I and II offered by Queen's. I will definitely be contacting them soon. If anyone here has enrolled in this course before, do you mind sharing your thoughts on it? Also, from what I've read, the labs are online...does anyone know know exactly how this is viewed by professional schools who require the lab component of Organic Chemistry? Once again, I will definitely do some independent research on this but any personal experiences would be great to hear!

 

Here's a link: http://www.queensu.ca/artsci_online/courses/general-organic-chemistry-i/summer-2013

 

Also, does anyone know of any schools (in Canada or the US) that don't accept prerequisite courses completed in the summer? And besides McMaster, are there any that actually take into consideration your mark in the summer course?

[equus]

So I've been looking around and came across online Organic Chemistry I and II offered by Queen's. I will definitely be contacting them soon. If anyone here has enrolled in this course before, do you mind sharing your thoughts on it? Also, from what I've read, the labs are online...does anyone know know exactly how this is viewed by professional schools who require the lab component of Organic Chemistry? Once again, I will definitely do some independent research on this but any personal experiences would be great to hear!

 

Here's a link: http://www.queensu.ca/artsci_online/courses/general-organic-chemistry-i/summer-2013

 

Also, does anyone know of any schools (in Canada or the US) that don't accept prerequisite courses completed in the summer? And besides McMaster, are there any that actually take into consideration your mark in the summer course?

 

Ottawa requires that the labs be done in person; they will not accept organic chemistry courses with online (or non-existent) labs.

[ks--]

York definitely offers Orgo I and II during the summer, with the labs- I was planning on taking it there last summer but had some other stuff come up, so I'll most likely be taking it this upcoming summer.

 

McMaster offers it during the summer too, also with labs.

 

Ryerson and UofT might also have it, but I haven't had a chance to look into their summer courses yet!

 

Orgo is pretty difficult from what I've heard, and time consuming. Labs are usually either every week or every other week, depending on the school. Plus, lots of additional studying and assignments.

[MathewsMD]

York definitely offers Orgo I and II during the summer, with the labs- I was planning on taking it there last summer but had some other stuff come up, so I'll most likely be taking it this upcoming summer.

 

McMaster offers it during the summer too, also with labs.

 

Ryerson and UofT might also have it, but I haven't had a chance to look into their summer courses yet!

 

Orgo is pretty difficult from what I've heard, and time consuming. Labs are usually either every week or every other week, depending on the school. Plus, lots of additional studying and assignments.

 

That's true. Completing the course online and then doing the labs somewhere in the GTA would be optimal. This is essentially Athabasca. I just wish it was slightly cheaper (paying an extra $400 for each lab) and more well organized.

[futurepediatric]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that my final exam for orgo I was also lost in the mail...Fortunately, my tutor "found" it on her desk 3 months later so I didn't have to rewrite it.

 

And I agree that the course fees are a HUGE rip-off.

 

Honestly, I would only ever take a course through Athabasca if there were absolutely no other options.

 

Wow...only at Athabasca would that happen...good thing you found out before you had to rewrite!

 

And I agree: I would never ever recommend Athabasca unless it was seriously the last and only option, and it usually is not. Other schools offer online courses that are much more 'legitimate', organized and fair-priced.

[futurepediatric]

That's true. Completing the course online and then doing the labs somewhere in the GTA would be optimal. This is essentially Athabasca. I just wish it was slightly cheaper (paying an extra $400 for each lab) and more well organized.

 

If you could I would take it online somewhere else ... anywhere else. Maybe Quees, like mentioned above. I've also heard Waterloo has online courses too