Knovecc Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Conclusion: the FM/EM program's competitiveness has almost doubled over last 7-8 years. Here are my graphs and data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knovecc Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 ratio of FM/EM to total FM filled position of the same cohort (by year of MD graduation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knovecc Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 My raw data process spreadsheet, all numbers are from CaRMS stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knovecc Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 So as we can see in the data, while the number of FM graduates increases exponentially over last 8 years (562 to 1311, 133% increase), the quota for FMEM spots has relatively little changes (only from 107 to 134, <30% increase), plus it has been almost stagnant over last two years. no wonder it's getting so hard to get an interview for the match:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I had interview at Memorial. I was told by the assistant-PD that there were only 4 applicants for 2 spots 6 years ago, now it's 75 applicants for 4 spots. And for 4 spots they interviewed almost 40 ppl. I almost had the feeling that they weren't that serious about all the applicants that they invite for interview... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MansionMD Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 So as we can see in the data, while the number of FM graduates increases exponentially over last 8 years (562 to 1311, 133% increase), the quota for FMEM spots has relatively little changes (only from 107 to 134, <30% increase), plus it has been almost stagnant over last two years. no wonder it's getting so hard to get an interview for the match:( Could it be possible that the % increase in FM graduates does not necessarily correspond to the same % increase in FMEM applicants? It might be more accurate to compare FMEM quota vs. FMEM applicants (instead of total FM graduates). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Could it be possible that the % increase in FM graduates does not necessarily correspond to the same % increase in FMEM applicants? I think OP supposed that the popularity of EM remains the same over the years, ie the proportion of FM residents who want to do FMEM doesn't change - therefore, higher total FM resident number = higher EM gunner number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I think OP supposed that the popularity of EM remains the same over the years, ie the proportion of FM residents who want to do FMEM doesn't change - therefore, higher total FM resident number = higher EM gunner number. may not be exactly true - competitiveness does scare some people way, and the general increase in family doc income compared to more static emerg doc income may suggest a relative shift towards not doing the +1 (blah, blah 2nd law of economics and all that). Not to say it is not getting more competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Good post. FM-EM is competitive and getting more so. The situation at the end of residency is changing as well. The FRCPC-EM programs have expanded over the last several years. The competition for emerg staff jobs is getting tighter. It is still no where close to the situation in other specialties, but the trend is something to keep an eye on. For the clerks: I'm bias, but I've said it before and will say it again, if you have your heart set on the ER and can't see yourself doing anything else, skip FM and just apply for the five year FRCPC stream. Slightly easier to get in, dedicated EM training as a resident, probable better job prospects + sub-specialty training at a cost of maybe ~300 additional shifts as a senior resident. Unless you got some reason to rush it seems like a pretty fair trade off to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 if you have your heart set on the ER and can't see yourself doing anything else, skip FM and just apply for the five year FRCPC stream. Quite honestly, some FMEM gunners are there just because they failed to match the FRCP-EM The rest of them choose FMEM pathway because they don't see themselves doing shift work at the age of 55 or so. Don't ask me what the proportion is for each group ps. The existence of CCFP-EM is quite a privilege for those who want to do emerg but somehow can't match to the FRCP program due to the limited number of RC positions. They have the second chance of becoming a full time EM doc by first going to a way less competitive specialty. Such luxury doesn't exist for ophtho, rad gunners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estairella Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Good post. FM-EM is competitive and getting more so. The situation at the end of residency is changing as well. The FRCPC-EM programs have expanded over the last several years. The competition for emerg staff jobs is getting tighter. It is still no where close to the situation in other specialties, but the trend is something to keep an eye on. For the clerks: I'm bias, but I've said it before and will say it again, if you have your heart set on the ER and can't see yourself doing anything else, skip FM and just apply for the five year FRCPC stream. Slightly easier to get in, dedicated EM training as a resident, probable better job prospects + sub-specialty training at a cost of maybe ~300 additional shifts as a senior resident. Unless you got some reason to rush it seems like a pretty fair trade off to me. Just to provide another viewpoint for the clerks, as a fellow classmate of rogerroger's and having gone the FM+EM route (just matched in this cycle). 1) Jobs are certainly getting tighter and yes the 5-year certification gives you better access to jobs in ER, but the 2+1 opens up more flexibility if you can't find a job right away (e.g. doing locums/walk-ins until you get a position). Furthermore, remember that you are sacrificing 2 extra years of delayed entrance in the job market. When jobs are plentiful, who cares? But in current conditions, where jobs are getting more scarce, I would say waiting those 2 years strongly diminishes the prospective benefit of the 5-year certification. I will be out practicing in 1 year - given how things look now, 3 years out (e.g. if I went the 5-year route) would be a hugely added stress personally. 2) ~300 additional shifts doesn't sound like a lot, but you are looking at $600-900k ($2000-3000/shift) in lost income. Yes, I know, it's not all about the money. But if you REALLY want to do ER and just ER, not ICU or toxicology or pediatrics or whatever else the FRCPC can let you do, and someone told you that you had to spend 2 years of your working life doing it for 10% of the salary (PGY4+5) of someone else (FM+EM grad) doing the EXACT SAME THING with the same years of (and less specialized) training, would you think you got a good deal? The other points, however, are very true. The FM-EM program is getting hugely competitive, much more so than the 5-year program (and not just because of 'failed' FRCPC gunners, I would say most Emerg keeners recognize early on the appeal of doing only 3 years). UofT had 40+ applicants (I think it was 44 but I forget) this year, which is like a third of our class, and only 7 spots. Places like NOSM were interviewing 50, places like UWO were interviewing 100+. I consider myself a strong candidate (ended up with interviews at 9 schools) and I have to say, I still feel very lucky to have matched. If you want to do just ER or ER +/- family and know you are stellar (e.g. top 5 or 1%), go the 2+1 route. If you want to do more (research, subspecialty, etc.) go the FRCPC route. In current (competitive) conditions, for everyone else it'll depend on how much of a gambler you are - the guaranteed loss of 600k of income for guaranteed career in ER (FRCPC) or the chance of keeping the 600k but also losing it all (FM+EM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOCK Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 What makes someone a strong applicant to FM/ER programs? Electives in emerg? Research? LORs? Anything i'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyInTheBubble Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Just as a clarification to Estairella's good post: UWO had like 120-130 applicants. They interviewed 32. 16 from Western, 16 were not. All but 2 had done rotations there. NOSM interviewed 40-50 between the two sites. The money gap between 2+1 and 5 year program is not 600-900k. 3000 is on the high end of a shift - some (many) don't get 2000. But it is quite variable. Also, the Royal College residents are getting paid their salary and more if they moonlight. After taxes etc you won't be 900k ahead of your royal college counterparts, you likely won't be 600k ahead either. But you will have earned two years of staff level pay which is excellent money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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