Guest GusK Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 Just curious, what do others think about someone taking some anti-anxiety medication (i.e. valium) before the interview, if a student is especially nervous? I think a good argument can be given that such medication will help improve a student's interview score. Is it unfair, immoral or is it reasonable for someone who feels very uncomfortable in such situations? Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tutifruiti Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 In my opinion, you shouln't. Relax, the interview in most of the cases is just a friendly chat, med schools want to know how you think and how you react in the real world, not a spawn of yourself. I know the idea of an "interview for medical school" could be scary, but you can help it by doing mock interviews, visualization of yourself during the interview and introspection... but not valium! Each time you'll face your patients later, will you have to take valium? No, you'll have to be alert and conscious! Moreover you don'T want to look half-sleeping dont ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing MB Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 I agree with tutifruiti. But, if you are going to take anything, make sure you "practice" ahead of time. Should you happen to have a sensitivity to whatever you're taking, you could end up unable to interview well, if at all. For example, if you had too great a response to Valium, you could end up slurring your words or worse. This is NOT an impression you want to leave with an interview team. In fact, the interviewers EXPECT nervousness. They don't expect chemical sedation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest not rex morgan Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 All I have to say is that if you need Valium to get through an interview, good luck on the wards. How conforting is it to a family if you need to get liquored up to tell them their child is not going to make it. "The doctor had the hiccups and smelled like a brewery." Consider another career if you need Valium to make it through...and don't pick one in which you have to operate heavy machinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest monkey Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 I totally agree that valium is probably not the best idea for alleviating the stress of an interview. Depressants will dull your wits, which is the very element they put to the test during the interview. But to the same extent I usually also do not drink coffee before a test, although most will consider this more acceptable a substance then say valium. Whether calming your nerves with a pill is morally acceptable? hmmm. I think the question I would ask myself is, " if I was a doctor, would I prescribe this to my patient for this purpose?" (note: valium=diazepam has risk for dependence) I'll let you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 On the other hand, don't be stressed out (pardon the pun) if you've been diagnosed with a condition such as General Anxiety Disorder and have been prescribed a drug such as Paxil to deal with anxiety or any other mental disorder. I know of students in our class who have been prescribed Paxil and/or anti-depressants - physicians/residents/med students are human, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GusK Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 As an examle consider someone who may be suffering from some form of social anxiety disorder (see link below)and feel intense anxiety that would severly affect his/her interview performance (without medication) but might otherwise might make an excellent physician if given the opportunity. Is it fair for a genuinely caring and academically qualified student to be denied the oppurtunity to study medicine because of anxiety felt during interviews? www.aafp.org/afp/991115ap/2311.html Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tutifruiti Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 HTML Comments are not allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest not rex morgan Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Fair enough. If you have an anxiety disorder, you should be allowed to medicate to a state in which you can perform like any person without the disorder. If you are thinking of popping a pill for the first time to get yourself through and interview, I'd really think twice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarah371 Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Valium...definately a no......you will look and act doped up especially if you are not used to taking them.....the only thing that I can think of that would help if you get really nervous is a B-blocker......gets rid of the "fight-flight" response....again...you will want to talk about it with a doctor and not want to take for the first time on the day of your interview. As for Paxil......because anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs take 2-6 weeks to have an effect you can't pop them before an interview and hope that they have a effect. As an educated guess I would say that 10-30% of medical students are on some sort of pharmacological support to get through the stress of med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GusK Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Sarah, I would tend to agree with last statement. I would also estimate that the figure is even higher for practsing physicians. One point is that there are short-acting drugs for anxiety. If I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) the benzos (i.e. clonazepam) are relatively fast acting. Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 While these drugs are generally fast-acting, from what I understand, they can have a negative impact on performance and memory. And, they can result in sedation beyond the point of "lack of anxiety", depending on the specific drug, the dose, and the metabolism of the patient. The point about med students/doctors taking psychoactive drugs is interesting. A psychiatrist I know did mention that a large number of physicians are obsessive-compulsives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterHill0501 Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I have to agree with not rex morgan...if you need medication for an interview...medicine may not be the right career choice. If you think the interview is tough what's going to happen when you get into difficult clinical situations? What about your LMCC exams? How about being on call and having to deal with grieving families or severe trauma where someone's life is critically and immediately dependent on your calmness and solid decision-making power...etc., etc. Having said that, there are legitimate reasons for being on various medications...and I could possibly be more than comfortable depending on someone who was on medication for legitimate medical reasons when the medication is being prescribed by a doctor and monitored appropriately. This, however, doesn't sound like that...it sounds more like self-prescription. I would personally be very worried about that...there are many untoward events which could result. Sounds to me like a very unhealthy choice. I would also be concerned with how someone without a legitimate prescription (assuming this is the case) would get valium or any other prescription or non-prescription drug. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest monkey Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Hi... How do people feel about depending on coffee to stay awake in medicine? I would agree that any drug is not too healthy for facing life's stresses, but I'm sure people wouldn't fret about a doctor having coffee breath when dealing with the patient's family. ( just playing the devil's advocate here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Well, if my patients or colleagues have issues with coffee addiction, I'm screwed. I'm averaging about 2 cups a day to stay awake in 8:00am lectures. I tried weening myself off the drug a couple of months ago - that week is a complete blackout for me. . . my classmates had to keep whacking my head to keep me from snoring in class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AniyaSG Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 I read an article somewhere that stated that the stimulatory action of coffee was not directly harmful to the body, and was beneficial in helping people focus. I wholeheartedly agree and ask all those who also believe to join me in worship at the Church of Coffee. --coffee, my performance-enhancing drug of choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 As far as coffee goes, I'm not a fan (for me, the horrible taste outweighs any other considerations), but it's not likely to hinder performance. And, as was previously mentioned, the stimulatory affects of caffeine can actually enhance performance. CBC Newsworld reported on a study this week that was conducted among the elderly. It showed that those subjects drinking coffee in the mornings had equivalent performance to their non-drinking counterparts in the mornings and BETTER performance, particularly in the area of memory, in the afternoons. If we extend this to the arena of medicine, it might be argued that, as a day/night drags on, patients would be better off seeing caffeine-stimulated doctors/students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onionsneakers Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 i much prefer a steady influx of more potent uppers - caffeine pills, effies, turbos, other amphetamines - this allows for a much more direct confrontation of the addictive nature of my life-sustaining habits. why call pig meat "pork"? a study of caffeine in the elderly likely doesn't have much bearing on the physician population since (a) physicians generally aren't elderly and ( many effects that would be significantly adverse in the healthy adult population would likely not be detected among elderly people. perhaps caffeine hasn't shown overtly negative effects, but maybe we haven't been looking in the right places. a high school chemistry teacher used to cite a study that suggested that performance following acute caffeine consumption is improved, but memory recall of information acquired while being stimulated by caffeine is impaired once the effects of caffeine are no longer present. also, just as with other addictions, while it may seem like the brain adapts to chronic drug use in order to achieve a "normal" level of homeostatic functioning, chronic drug use actually produces an altered chronic state that some have called an "allostatic" state that is not homeostatic and that instead sends you on a spiralling downward course to the depths of insanity and fiery doom... p.s. i actually can't stand coffee breath, so if any of you are my future physician, i'd suggest a healthy co-addiction to those "curiously strong" mints. on another tangent, i hear they also make you look like the guy on the container. it's odd that altoids sounds like both hemorrhoids and deltoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Point taken. . . I'll pick up some altoids tomorrow. What about Tic-tacs? Are those strong enough for you? On another note, I myself don't approve of coffee addiction - I even tried to ween myself of the black filth during a research placement in the summer after 3rd year. Problem was, I kept falling asleep at the microscope - so when school started up again, I was back at Tim Ho's, rrrolling up the rim to win. If any of you out there haven't started drinking coffee yet, don't! The fact I now seem to have to read over my notes a gazillion times leads me to suspect those studies showing that recall is impaired by caffeine have a strong basis in reality. BTW - I almost agree with your point 'why call pig meat "pork"?' Problem is that can be taken to the absurd. . . If I remember my drug physiology correctly crack cocaine is also an upper - but you certainly wouldn't see someone's performance in school improve if they were smoking crack rocks all day. I'd suggest sticking to regular old coffee/tea for that performance-enhancing boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AniyaSG Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 UWOMED mentionning Tim Hortons brings up a scary rumor I've heard (and that would explain the big lineups for coffee at that donut joint). Apparently Tim's coffee has nicotine in it. Can anyone confirm/deny? I'm just curious, and I know I'm off topic, sorry, I just figure med/predmed-types would be more inclined to be interested or knowledgeable about pharmaceuticals in foods... I enjoy the ritual of coffee as well as the beverage... Coffee Break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 Sounds like a rumour to me. If people are willing to line up for watered-down car droppings from Starbucks, then it's probably just the caffeine constant that is attracting people there & to Tim's. A Starbucks on every corner = free advertising for cheaper & more palatable Tim's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AniyaSG Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 lol, I'm personally a Starbucks fan, and think Tim's tastes like ashtray leavings, but I guess it's all a matter of personal preference (I also like the fact that Starbucks buys directly from the growers) I have heard the rumor from several people including previous employees. Apparently there is a legal limit to the amount of nicotine that can be added to food without declaring it and that Tim's is just below that. It would certainly explain the devotion of Tim's fans... To throw another question into the mix, coffee-drinking med students/doctors has been discussed, but what about smoking doctors/med students? I've heard that a large proportion of med students smoke or begin smoking while doing rotations... can anyone confirm/deny this at their school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liana Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 Personally, I hate all coffee, period. However, I am aware of the coffee biases out there. From what I've heard, Tim's is quite addictive, and a good source of caffeine; Starbucks is pricey (reflective of the source of their beans, you're right) but many coffee purists wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, and Second Cup has the best of both worlds. But there are probably people who loathe Second Cup, too. Nicotine though.. that's sneaky. Smart, but how could you sleep at night, if you were the mastermind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Hey, If Tim's (supposedly) puts nicotine in its coffee to promote its very own culture of drones, then how do we explain the allure of Krispy Kreme? Join the dark side... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diazespam Posted April 5, 2002 Report Share Posted April 5, 2002 all of you should take lots and lots of valium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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