Surprising interview questions

[Guest aneliz]

Here is one for you:

 

Think of your favourite high school teacher. Now rank the following people in order of importance to you: your favourite high school teacher, your family doctor and Tiger Woods. Now, rank them in order of how much money they make. Why are the two rankings exactly the opposite of each other? (ie person of little personal importance to you makes most $$$).

 

And to follow it up.... Are doctors in Ontario over--payed, under-payed or adequately compensated!?

 

Slam-dunk interview question brought to you by med student interviewer at UofT.

[Guest medwant2b]

Q. (faculty member) What do you think of Audis [i had a summer job at Audi]?

A. (me) They are nice, but expensive.

Q. But not more expensive than BMWs.

A. Yes.

Q. (pause) But they aren't... more expensive than BMWs.

A. Yes. :)

 

I had the impression the guy was fishing for a discussion about expensive cars or engineering [i studied engineering]. I didn't want to play along. I wanted the interview to stay nice and focused on things that will convince them I am suitable for (and interested in) medicine.

 

Cheers, medwant2b

[Guest cardud]

I don't know much about cars but I thought the A8 was quite pricey... When you said "yes", was it clear to them that you meant "yes you are right" or "yes they are in fact just as expensive"?

[Guest hmsdread]

Hi all,

 

Nearing the end of my interview at U of T, the doctor and student asked me to "teach them something". Needless to say, I was surprised for a few seconds...I had them both stand up, I took off my suit jacket, and I taught them a self-defense technique (I have a black belt in karate). I think they liked it!

 

hmsdread

[Guest beaver]

They asked me to teach them something at the UofT interview.....I talk them how too moonwalk and side straddle (break dance move). We were laughing so hard after the interview the girl after me looked pretty scared about what was going on as I left the room.

[Guest AniyaSG]

I found most surprising being asked at 2 schools to roleplay being a physician speaking to a dying patient's family about "pulling the plug". I found it quite difficult to play pretend while in a tiny room with interviewers... :/

[Guest medwant2b]

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> cardud:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

I think the answer was clear--Audis aren't as expensive as BMWs.

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Champ:<!--EZCODE BOLD END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> The interviewers replied....NO..NO...Why do you REALLY want to study medicine? How do you deal with this?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->Look at the interviewer and say, "What I just said is why I want to study medicine." -- If you're sure of an answer stick by it.

 

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> BlueWooster, shkelo, missing Manitoba, Jazzman, PeterHill0501...<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

Whoa! I'm surprised at the concentration of musicians here. I'm also one, albeit probably not any where near as skilled as you guys. My only distinction here is an award in high school, but I kept playing through university and spent a couple of summers teaching kids at a music camp. Also, I dabbled a bit in composition and submitted a piece to a competition. No questions directly about any of it came in the interview, but I worked it in 'cause I thought it tells them a bit more about me as a person.

[Guest missing Manitoba]

Hi medwant2b,

 

Many of the meds/premeds I know are musically inclined. I'm not sure what the connection is.

[Guest PeterHill0501]

My wife is a family doc...she graduated from the Royal Conservatory of Music in Piano Teaching...she also plays Cello. In fact, now that I think about it all but one of my doc friends play some instrument seriously.

[Guest Liana]

I think there are two aspects of the correlation of music-playing and medical aspirations. One is that medicine teaches the discipline required to apply oneself to obtain the marks required for admission, and to ensure successful understanding of the material taught in medical school.

 

The other aspect is the family economic situation correlation. Most kids who take extracurricular music lessons (especially those who begin at young ages and continue for long periods of time) come from families with higher income, or are the children of intellectual parents, both correlated with medical aspirations.

[Guest Champ]

Wow,

 

For someone to even suggest that those who take music lessons as extra-curriculars are generally from a higher family economic situation is a disturbing thought. The quote that,

"Most kids who take extracurricular music lessons (especially those who begin at young ages and continue for long periods of time) come from families with higher income, or are the children of intellectual parents, both correlated with medical aspirations." seems to hilight a gaping hole in the admissions process. If these correlations are correct (music, medicine, intellecet of parents and income) as positive prognistic indicators of med acceptance , then really their is a problem with equal opportunity to education. And while the above comments about their being a correlation between music, medicine and intellect, I would sincerely hope that it does not put those without opportunity at a disadvantage.

 

Why is it that people continually try and elevate themselves above the rest (intellectually) by the simple fact that they are trying to get in to medicine.

 

Is it possible that such a high correlation exists between music and medicine because alot of people with music degrees are extremely successful in them (high GPA) largely due to the fact the music for them is their vocation and they simply get excellent grades in something that they are already very good at doing and keenly interested in. In this way, in the madness of the Med Admissions, chances are they will have very competitive GPA's plus an extremely well balanced self.

 

Just a thought.

 

Please remember that intellectual horsepower is not always related to that of our parents, income and more importantly the number of letters after our name.

 

 

champ

[Guest medwant2b]

Champ:

 

I think Liana is right on the money. I'm not totally sure about the link between music and money, but it certainly sounds plausible. That education level and income is linked is well known. Also, there is a problem with equal opportunity in education. Take look at these stats if you don't believe me.

 

If your mom worked minimum wage jobs and your dad worked minimum wage jobs you're one of the few from your background that is looking at this bulletin board.

 

Personally, I think it is sad because we're losing the potential of a lot of good people.

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

I was raised in a middle class household. Neither of my parents are intellectuals nor have they attended post-secondary institutions. I studied the piano and achieved Grade 7 RCM and can't remember what level of theory. Sadly, I haven't kept up with my playing.....

I wonder if these sort of trends are more strongly indicative of:

a) The requirement of higher and higher levels of education by the job market.

The fact that the activities that were once considered "extra" (ie. clubs, sports, piano and so-called volunteering) have really become absolute "necessities" in order to compete be it in the job market or in the Med admissions process.

than they are evidence of only rich kids studying Medicine.

I am aware of the recent studies that confirm said link, but am always looking for alternate explanations!

 

Didn't want anyone to feel alone! Cheers!

Melissa

[Guest cheech10]

There is a huge problem with economic inequalitites and entering medical school. Just look at the major factors used in selecting applicants:

 

- grades - much easier to do if one has extra time, can afford tutors, textbooks, etc., not to mention the socialization of upper and lower classes differes with respect to the relative importance placed on higher education and academics versus earning wages in the present

 

- MCAT - a weak point, since the effectiveness of prep courses is debatable, but generally more wealth allows one to take a course and may positively affect one's score

 

- volunteer work - easier for upper class individuals who don't have to worry about the potential income lost by working for free rather than earning a wage

 

- extracurricular activities - lower economic class individuals have less time for these pursuits and must focus instead on working during their free time

 

The major point is that less wealthy applicants will need to focus on part time jobs rather than grades, volunteer work, and EC's. This is due not only to economic pressures, but also due to the socialization of the lower class. And although part-time jobs can help offset a weaker CV, I have a feeling that an ADCOM will prefer a student with varied experiences than one that has worked at a single job for a very long time period (different amounts of "life experience", and this point is debatable, but it's what I feel is the general sentiment). There are some generalizations in the earlier arguments, but nothing too severe, IMO. We put a huge expected time commitment on applicants, desiring high grades and great EC's, which is difficult for most of us and doubly so for those of us from lower income families. Anyone from a lower class background that can manage a solid CV and a competitive application has earned my sincerest respect.

[Guest Liana]

No, intellectual horsepower is not necessarily a product of the home situation, but there is a correlation. Look at the parental income levels of a given medical school class, and you would probably see it is higher than the average population, and likely higher than a sample of undergrad students.

 

And I absolutely stand by my argument that extracurricular music lessons are reflective of family income level. At ~$20+ an hour, not every family can afford to send their children to learn piano or violin (not to mention, buying the equipment). Those who do, tend to send their children at a later age, often because the child has expressed an interest in learning the instrument (often because they have friends who play), rather than the parents forcing the child to do something before he/she is old enough to want to do it (when the money is hard to come by as it is).

 

This does not at all mean that someone from a less economically advantaged background can not gain admission to medical school. However, you have to look at the social factors behind musical study, rather than musical study itself. Many parents sign their kids up for lessons to teach them self-discipline. Whether or not they actually learn it depends on the individual students, but it would seem that the parents have at least some interest in developing this aspect of their children.

 

An example: my parents are not well off. Perhaps a factor in their economic situation comes from their lack of committment and personal aspirations (my mother left several well-paying jobs for silly reasons, and now she is earning very little money at a job she loathes, because she doesn't want to teach herself to embrace the new technology that has developed in recent years). Growing up, my parents never wanted me to challenge myself (because it might be *hard*); they supported me dropping out of activities if I didn't like them (without first encouraging me to persist for a few weeks before coming to that conclusion), etc etc.

 

Yes, your parents' economic situation is not always a product of their personality, but quite often the characteristics necessary for entrance into medical school (determination, perseverence, discipline; not including compassion) are found in people who work as professionals. Parents don't always pass on their traits to their children, either, but that's a side factor.

 

By the correlation between music and medicine, Champ, I am not referring to medical school applicants who have studied music in university. I am referring to the percentage of medical school applicants/students who are or have been involved in making music: whether they did a bachelors, took piano lessons as a child, or are teaching themselves to play guitar.

 

There is a correlation between these factors: musical aptitude and intellect (not necessarily the success in or desire to pursue medicine, but general intellect regardless of academic choices). There is a correlation between intellect and medical study (ie, you need to be smart to get into medical school). There is a correlation between family income and involvement in music performance (you need money to pay for the instruments and the lessons), just as there is indeed a correlation between family income and medical school (seriously, do a poll). There is certainly not a correlation between musical APTITUDE and family income, but those who are fortunate enough to have access to musical instruments or instruction at a younger age (most often, though not always, through family affluence) will have greater opportunity to develop the discipline and self-analytical skills taught by musical practice than those who learn at a later age. How many concert musicians, grand chess masters, or Olympic skiiers learned their crafts over the age of 20? Probably very few.

[Guest BlueWooster]

Just a couple comments on the discussion so far:

1. I must disagree with Champ's idea of a music degree elevating your GPA. Anyone who has done a degree in the fine arts, humanities, or social studies can confirm that these areas are murder on your average. To use my case, my two years of science average 95% while my two BEST years of music average 81%. NOTE: I am NOT suggesting that science is easier - not at all. However, there is less subjective marking in science classes and a LOT more "dead weight" (i.e students taking the course because they have to) in the introductory science courses - both of which will help the motivated student shine.

 

2. I agree with Melissa's suggestion that "extra" curriculars have become "mandatory" curriculars. I understand the need to have doctors who are reasonable and personable but I wonder if selection commitees aren't going overboard in their zeal to select "well rounded" people. Like Cheech mentions, this fixation on ECs may disadvantage those who don't have the luxury of spending their evenings singing in a choir or taking the summer off to volunteer. To press the point further, I wonder if this practice doesn't also harm those who are obsessively dedicated to their interest in the medical field. For example, I spent eight years locked in practice rooms for hours a day and, according to selection committees, I'm interesting and wellrounded. Yet, another individual who spends eight years slaving in labs and classrooms while earning degrees in biochemistry may be dismissed as out of touch and academic. I hate to think that I'd have some advantage over such a dedicated individual during an interview just because I chose to obsess about something other than science!

Blue

[Guest strider2004]

I don't play any musical instrument - I never took piano lessons. I know a lot of people in my class who don't have any musical background. However, there are quite a few who dabble in other arts. A couple of my friends a seriously into the visual arts and I've done some dance in my past(and present). Others have also done theatre. But there are others who have solely done sports related work.

 

Music is just one way that people learn discipline. Perhaps physicians have an innate feeling to 'show off' so they also do extracurricular activities to show their talents. Who knows? I think everyone in my class is good in at least SOMETHING. Maybe that's how they're picked - to form a unique class with a mosaic of talents. A look at Canadian and American admissions stats will show you that philosophy major have a better chance at getting into med school than science majors. This is because there are only 300 or so philosophy majors applying to medicine compared to 60,000 science majors. The philosophy majors are unique and stand out. The same probably holds true for music majors. Applicants are so well rounded these days that you're practically unique if you DON'T have a talent.

[Guest Champ]

Based on previous comments it seems as though people are generally aware that a relationship exists between income and opportunity in medical education. There is also some consensus regarding the almost "routine" requirement of extra-curricular activities. With this in mind,with similar grades, who should be accepted,..

 

the professional musician with a huge amount of EC's or the student who has been working part-time throughout his/her life to pay his or her way through school with average EC's?

 

 

A final note: Taking a straw poll....how have you folks financed your education thus far...parents, scholarships, self ? Does this make a difference ?

 

 

Personally, I have self financed myself for 3 degrees (including a Phd from Overseas). During this time I learned more about determination, perserverance etc (as outlined by Liana) than any time before.

 

 

 

champ

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Champ,

 

To answer your question re financing...my parents mostly supported me during my undergrad. The last year of undergrad I won a memorial scolarship...my graduate education was funded by NSERC (Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council). For med school, should I gain acceptance, I will be dependent on a giant line of credit which I have pre-arranged (Royal Bank of Canada has a great line of credit for med students) and, of course, will be working in the summers. I will likely be able to get contracts with Statistics Canada for the summer conducting quantitative and qualitative research for them, although, I'm going to try to find medicine-related positions, if possible.

 

Peter

[Guest mn]

With regard to the connection between money and higher education, this article by some U of T Meds reports a very significant under-representation among Med students by those of lower income and rural origins. Big surprise (said in a cheeky tone of voice).

 

www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/8/1023

 

I'm one of those (both categories). When I expressed an interest in college or University to my parents they were shocked at the price and declared that we certainly couldn't affort it - and that was nearly 20 years ago - I didn't tell them what I am paying now, I don't think their tickers could handle it. Neither of them had set foot in a university, nor had any of my siblings, aunts uncles or cousins. This is not an unusual story. In many parts of this country this sort of scenario is still the norm.

How did I finance it so far? I saved up some, some loans and thankfully, I seem to have a knack for study and get some money given to me. These things would have been nice to know about then but so what, I'm here now. I would like to put a highschool presentation together for rural/northern/aboriginal kids so they are aware of all their options and ready to navigate the university system.

I have read some of Peter's posts and am pleased to see that that I may not be the only one who is "somewhat mature" come this fall.

[Guest PeterHill0501]

MN,

 

I think it would be great to do such a presentation. I know after graduating from Psych I wanted to do the same thing. There doesn't seem to be anybody in the education system that tells you how you can apply your degrees (other than the obvious) and also how to fund. I believe this is one of the areas that the educational system is really failing. I studied psychology out of pure fascination for the human condition...I never realized I would be applying it to telecommunications product design, surgery instrument design, development of new ophthalmological tests for low vision, conducting national studies for Health Canada, etc., etc. I've always been an applied kind of guy so I searched it out...most of my colleagues and profs, who preferred the pure academic stuff, thought I was absolutely nuts...I was kind of a pioneer (geeze that is really dating myself) with respect to conducting applied psychological/human factors research at our university.

 

Mature? I'm not sure about that...but I'm definitely older :rollin

 

Peter

[Guest missing Manitoba]

I'm in the interesting position of coming from a lower income, single parent home but having many of the opportunities available to the considerably more well-to-do. It makes for a very interesting perspective on the issues that have been discussed in this thread.

 

My first two years at Queen's (along with all my music lessons and other educational activities) were paid for by an inheritance left to me by a very generous great-aunt who made provisions for my education. Suffice it to say, my brothers, who did not receive an inheritance, have distinctly different CVs from my own, with one of them having worked full-time hours while doing an honours degree in physics and the other having funded his education with loans. Neither went away for undergrad, and neither had extensive extracurriculars outside of athletic involvement and work. It would be interesting to see how they would fare in the med application process.

 

My latter two years have been paid for primarily by student loans, with some support from my non-custodial parent. I made the conscious choice not to work during the school year because of the ramifications working could have for my CV and grades and have been unable to work during the past few summers due to illness.

[Guest Liana]

Champ,

 

You raise an excellent point that employment helps develop traits of determination and perseverence. I think it's an inherent problem in our medical school selection procedures to be emphasizing quantity versus quality of extracurricular activities.

 

I know I personally have developed most significantly through paid positions rather than volunteering activities. I've had greater opportunity to work in situations where interpersonal politics have put a damper on the workplace spirit; I've encountered more challenging work, and I've developed the perseverence to follow through with activities that I don't necessarily enjoy. In volunteering positions, there's always the unspoken motto of "do it, if you like", whereas in paid employment, you are more often forced into situations that you can't just walk away from. I've also had the opportunity to work with a greater range of people in paid positions, especially people who barely willing to do the work they are paid to do, rather than people who are actively choosing to do what they are doing. I wouldn't say this is always the case (especially since my volunteering activities are fairly standard - this obviously wouldn't be the case for all volunteering activities), but in general, my paid positions have required me to give more of myself than my volunteering positions have. Although volunteering positions often involve one-on-one helping other people, and reward you with the warm & cosy feeling that comes with being compassionate, I can't say I've developed that greatly as a person in these positions.