Western Medical Science Vs York Biomedical Science

[navr]

Can we just say that degree difficulty is subjective?... 

we could...if there did not exist a discipline called statistics

[navr]

Western transcripts routinely display the class average next to an individual's course grades. They're easily available, and unfortunately (for you) the facts aren't corroborating your story. 70-75% has been the historical average for core BMSc courses in years 1-2; from my perspective 6 years ago, to my colleagues' who TA those courses today, they remain unchanged.

 

But I'm starting to understand why you didn't make it further in medsci... nothing here is your fault, just the program's eh?

You yourself admit that it was EONS since you were in the 1st yr medsci. In contrast, I am 2015/2016 generation, and what I am telling you is true for the 2015/2016.

I and 300 other students did not make it. Most of us will eventually make it at another biomed program, but not on Western medsci, THE MOST DIFFICULT BIOMED PROGRAM IN ONTARIO.

[navr]

Western transcripts routinely display the class average next to an individual's course grades. They're easily available, and unfortunately (for you) the facts aren't corroborating your story. 70-75% has been the historical average for core BMSc courses in years 1-2; from my perspective 6 years ago, to my colleagues' who TA those courses today, they remain unchanged.

 

But I'm starting to understand why you didn't make it further in medsci... nothing here is your fault, just the program's eh?

there are no data, or the data you cite are FROM 6 YEARS AGO, I.E. EONS AGO. HECK, IN THOSE TIMES CHEM 1301 AND 1302 DID NOT EVEN EXIST.

 

I claim that you too would fail to make it to 3rd year medsci if you were 2015/2016 generation.

[Kirby17]

there are no data, or the data you cite are FROM 6 YEARS AGO, I.E. EONS AGO. HECK, IN THOSE TIMES CHEM 1301 AND 1302 DID NOT EVEN EXIST.

 

I claim that you too would fail to make it to 3rd year medsci if you were 2015/2016 generation.

 

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

I JUST finished first year in 2015/16.

Many of the first year courses POST THE CLASS AVERAGE and/or MEDIAN, and yet, you're saying there's no data available about the class averages.

Since you cannot seem to understand, I will literally quote them for you:

 

 

Bio 1001A Fall 2015/2016 (Email from Tom Haffie, Dec 23, 2015)

"The final course average of 77% is among the highest in first year courses at Western and among the highest in first year Biology courses across the province."

 

Bio 1002B Winter 2015/2016 (Email from Tom Haffie, May 2, 2016)

"The class as a whole finished with a strong overall average of 74%."

 

Chem 1301A Fall 2015/2016 (POSTED ON OWL, GO CHECK)

• Median = 75
• Mean = 73
• SD = 14
• Min = 28
• Max = 100 (four students)

Chem 1302B Winter 2015/2016 (Email from Kieth Griffiths, April 27, 2016)

"A couple of comments; First, the overall class average was 72.35%, which is well within normal parameters; there was no 'curving' of the marks, neither will there be."

 

Physics 1028A/1029B Fall/Winter 2015/2016 (General Evaluation File on OWL and email from Zinke)

"This then leads to a Class average of 76 – 79 %. This average has not changed since the very day this course was introduced – that is, by now for sixteen years!"

 

"The average is the same as in all previous years, as I cannot exceed the threshold set by Department Policy and always operate essentially at the highest possible bracket. However, I am confident that you will see positive effects due to the way we studied this year in Physics, particularly in Physiology, from where we used numerous examples of how to benefit from the foundational concepts of your first year Physics course."

 

"...an 80 will mean that you are a bit ahead of the average in my course"

 

While I understand that the difficulty of a program is subjective, you are making outlandish claims and blaming the program for your own issues.

LIKE YOU SAID A COUPLE COMMENTS BACK, the average intelligence of a population is relatively CONSTANT. According to the information on course averages myself, as well as others have posted, the course averages have remained relatively CONSTANT.

 

With that in mind, how can you claim that "between 2013/2014 and 2015/2016 there was ~20% increase in the difficulty of the problems given on tests and exams for chem, calc, bio, and physics"?

If the average student's intelligence is the same, a 20% increase in the difficulty of problems on tests and exams would surely lower the average mark of students in these courses. BUT, LOOK AT THE AVERAGES FOR 2015/2016. THERE WAS NO DECREASE (in fact, it is even an increase), so your claim is completely untrue.

 

 

I understand that you are upset that you were not able to maintain the requirements to enter med sci, but making these absurd claims and portraying the program as you have, may sway a poor high school student's decision and discourage them from attending an amazing school for an amazing program. Essentially ALL universities have majors/modules/programs of study that are more competitive than others, and not all students can study what they want to as a result. You can't blame the school for your own failure to satisfy the requirements to study your desired module.

 

Hopefully, you will finally understand that there was no "SHARP INCREASE IN THE DIFFICULTY OF CHEMISTRY", or a 20% increase in the difficulty of exam problems. Maybe you weren't suited for the program, but as it stands, it is not the school's fault that you were not competitive enough to enter med sci. It is your own.

 

 

P.S. By the way you're deflecting the blame for your failure onto the school, it is becoming apparent to myself, and probably others, why you weren't able to improve enough as a student to enter med sci.

[navr]

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

I JUST finished first year in 2015/16.

Many of the first year courses POST THE CLASS AVERAGE and/or MEDIAN, and yet, you're saying there's no data available about the class averages.

Since you cannot seem to understand, I will literally quote them for you:

 

 

While I understand that the difficulty of a program is subjective, you are making outlandish claims and blaming the program for your own issues.

LIKE YOU SAID A COUPLE COMMENTS BACK, the average intelligence of a population is relatively CONSTANT. According to the information on course averages myself, as well as others have posted, the course averages have remained relatively CONSTANT.

 

With that in mind, how can you claim that "between 2013/2014 and 2015/2016 there was ~20% increase in the difficulty of the problems given on tests and exams for chem, calc, bio, and physics"?

If the average student's intelligence is the same, a 20% increase in the difficulty of problems on tests and exams would surely lower the average mark of students in these courses. BUT, LOOK AT THE AVERAGES FOR 2015/2016. THERE WAS NO DECREASE (in fact, it is even an increase), so your claim is completely untrue.

 

 

I understand that you are upset that you were not able to maintain the requirements to enter med sci, but making these absurd claims and portraying the program as you have, may sway a poor high school student's decision and discourage them from attending an amazing school for an amazing program. Essentially ALL universities have majors/modules/programs of study that are more competitive than others, and not all students can study what they want to as a result. You can't blame the school for your own failure to satisfy the requirements to study your desired module.

 

Hopefully, you will finally understand that there was no "SHARP INCREASE IN THE DIFFICULTY OF CHEMISTRY", or a 20% increase in the difficulty of exam problems. Maybe you weren't suited for the program, but as it stands, it is not the school's fault that you were not competitive enough to enter med sci. It is your own.

 

 

P.S. By the way you're deflecting the blame for your failure onto the school, it is becoming apparent to myself, and probably others, why you weren't able to improve enough as a student to enter med sci.

Like I said zillion times, your numbers are not true.

They were never published. Yu invented those numbers.

 

Now think logically. Western University to have such high averages, and yet in spite of that, OFFER 60% MINIMUM TO PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS FOR HEY MEDICAL SCIENCE?! NOOOOO WAY. NOBODY IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO WOULD CHOOSE ANY OTHER PROGRAM, NOT UIFT, NOT WATERLOO, NOTHING WHATSOEVER, BUT WESTERN MEDSCI. BECAUSE IT WOULD BE SOOOO EASY COMPARED TO OTHER PROGRAMS. AND STILL PRESTIGIOUS.

 

No, no way. THAT IS WHY THE MEDIANS ARE NOT PUBLISHED ON THE WESTERN WEB SITE. YOU CAN POST HERE FOR YEARS AND CLAIM THESE NUMBERS ARE TRUE, BUT I AM TELLING YOU: THEY ARE INVENTED. NON-AUTHORITATIVE. HEARSAY. EMAIL HERE AND THERE.

 

 

FOLKS, BE SMART. GO WITH YOUR LAWYER AND SEE THE PRINCIPAL OF THE WESTERN. ASK TO SEE THE REAL NUMBERS.

 

R E A L    N U M B E R S.     AUTHORITATIVE DATA, NOT HEAR-SAY.

 

 

DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR, OTHERWISE YOU'LL REGRET IT.

[thethirdlaw]

THE PRINCIPAL OF THE WESTERN

 

 

I think you need a time-out bud.

[Mjacob45]

As a Western grad (started out in biomedical sciences in fall 2011, graduated with honours specialization psych BSc in 2015), I thought I would give some good advice to any possible 12th grade students reading this. To give yourself the highest possible chance of getting into medical school, the key is to achieve the highest marks you can while still taking all of the med school prerequisites (i.e. english, bio, chem, organic, biochem, and physics- though english, biochem and physics are a bit more optional depending on the schools you apply to). Whether that is through med sci or another program, is up to you. Med schools do not care what program you did and will not give you extra points for doing a hard program. At my interviews, I met people from tons of different programs, there is no "preferred" program. Complete a program you find interesting, are able to get high marks, and can make a reasonable plan B with if med school does not work out (if that's med sci at Western, fantastic!). If you are not achieving ~over a 3.9 average using the weighting formulas (if applicable) of medical schools you apply to, its time to switch programs (Lower than 3.9 is reasonable for schools without weighting formulas i.e. 3.75 ish is fine for Mac). There is no point in graduating with a degree in medical sciences with goal of getting into medical school with a subpar gpa on the relevant scale (OMSAS for Ontario schools). Of course, its also important that you are able to handle your program well enough to participate in extra curriculars, volunteering, research, etc (with research being more optional). Its also key to make connections to profs/supervisors/employers to obtain good reference letters. If you have a well-rounded application, a decent mcat score, a competitive gpa, can write a decent application and interview well, you have a good chance. Good luck to anybody reading this in the future!

[navr]

As a Western grad (started out in biomedical sciences in fall 2011, graduated with honours specialization psych BSc in 2015), I thought I would give some good advice to any possible 12th grade students reading this. To give yourself the highest possible chance of getting into medical school, the key is to achieve the highest marks you can while still taking all of the med school prerequisites (i.e. english, bio, chem, organic, biochem, and physics- though english, biochem and physics are a bit more optional depending on the schools you apply to). Whether that is through med sci or another program, is up to you. Med schools do not care what program you did and will not give you extra points for doing a hard program. At my interviews, I met people from tons of different programs, there is no "preferred" program. Complete a program you find interesting, are able to get high marks, and can make a reasonable plan B with if med school does not work out (if that's med sci at Western, fantastic!). If you are not achieving ~over a 3.9 average using the weighting formulas (if applicable) of medical schools you apply to, its time to switch programs (Lower than 3.9 is reasonable for schools without weighting formulas i.e. 3.75 ish is fine for Mac). There is no point in graduating with a degree in medical sciences with goal of getting into medical school with a subpar gpa on the relevant scale (OMSAS for Ontario schools). Of course, its also important that you are able to handle your program well enough to participate in extra curriculars, volunteering, research, etc (with research being more optional). Its also key to make connections to profs/supervisors/employers to obtain good reference letters. If you have a well-rounded application, a decent mcat score, a competitive gpa, can write a decent application and interview well, you have a good chance. Good luck to anybody reading this in the future!

 

This is a smart man talking!

 

In the meantime, a student from another program who has a lot of friends in medsci told me that "many of his friends at medsci failed many of the courses in the 1st year". This is a testimony first-hand. The person has no reason to lie about it.

 

Now ask yourself this: you receive an email from professor in which he contends that "the average is 72%". 72% in relation to what? Red blood cells?!

 

He technically did not lie as he may had MEDSCI population in mind only (i.e. those that are IN - means still in medsci. In other words, those who have 60% or more in his class at that moment. Those with less than 60%, who cares about them? Now, this all makes sense. Now 72% makes sense. It is the average of THOSE WHO IN THAT PROFESSOR'S CLASS WERE STILL ELIGIBLE TO CONTINUE IN MEDSCI PROGRAM FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE. IT IS THOSE THAT HE HAD IN MIND WHEN HE SENT THAT LETTER. 60% IS MIN, 72% average. 200 failed to reach 60%, and of those maybe 100 failed with less than 50%. But, conveniently, the professor did not count them at all).

[thethirdlaw]

This is a smart man talking!

 

In the meantime, a student from another program who has a lot of friends in medsci told me that "many of his friends at medsci failed many of the courses in the 1st year". This is a testimony first-hand. The person has no reason to lie about it.

 

Now ask yourself this: you receive an email from professor in which he contends that "the average is 72%". 72% in relation to what? Red blood cells?!

 

He technically did not lie as he may had MEDSCI population in mind only (i.e. those that are IN - means still in medsci. In other words, those who have 60% or more in his class at that moment. Those with less than 60%, who cares about them? Now, this all makes sense. Now 72% makes sense. It is the average of THOSE WHO IN THAT PROFESSOR'S CLASS WERE STILL ELIGIBLE TO CONTINUE IN MEDSCI PROGRAM FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE. IT IS THOSE THAT HE HAD IN MIND WHEN HE SENT THAT LETTER. 60% IS MIN, 72% average. 200 failed to reach 60%, and of those maybe 100 failed with less than 50%. But, conveniently, the professor did not count them at all).

 

Dude, give up. You couldn't cut it, so what. It happens. You have 3 years to clean up your grades before applying, in that time I'd also recommend a healthy dose of introspection to combat your sense of entitlement and woe is me victim attitude, both of which will do you no favours in the medical profession. Good luck to you.

 

For grade 11s and 12s reading this, Western's BMSc program is a stellar choice that will prepare you appropriately for the rigours of the MCAT and medical school.

[navr]

Dude, give up. You couldn't cut it, so what. It happens. You have 3 years to clean up your grades before applying, in that time I'd also recommend a healthy dose of introspection to combat your sense of entitlement and woe is me victim attitude, both of which will do you no favours in the medical profession. Good luck to you.

 

For grade 11s and 12s reading this, Western's BMSc program is a stellar choice that will prepare you appropriately for the rigours of the MCAT and medical school.

"Dude, give up. You couldn't cut it"

 

I COULDN'T BUT OTHERS SHOULDN'T EVEN TRY.

 

FOR ME, IT IS TOO LATE. BUT FOR OTHERS? THEY STILL HAVE A CHANCE: BY AVOIDING WESTERN MEDSCI LIKE A PLAGUE.

 

ALL THEY NEED IS THE GPA. MEDICAL SCHOOL WILL NOT ASK YOU ABOUT NOR INVESTIGATE ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR GPA.

 

AND IN WESTERN MEDSCI YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET GPA, TRUST ME.

 

GO TO YORK KINE, AND IF YOU CAN, BOOST YOUR GPA THERE. AND IF YOU ARE GOOD, THEN APPLY FOR THE 3RD YEAR MEDSCI POOL. ALL YOU NEED IS 75% GPA, NOTHING ELSE.

 

BUT IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE LIKE I DID, AND FAIL 1ST YEAR WESTERN MEDSCI, THEN YOU ARE DONE FOREVER AS NO OTHER SCHOOL WILL EVER ACCEPT YOU WITH YOUR POOR GPA FROM WESTERN. 

 

SO, IF YOU REALLY THINK IT IS A STELLAR PROGRAM, THEN GO TO YORK KINE OR SIMILAR, OBTAIN 75% IN YOUR 2ND YEAR, AND APPLY FOR 3RD YEAR (REAL) MEDSCI WESTERN. I SAY REAL BECAUSE MEDSCI STARTS ONLY IN YOUR 3RD YEAR.

[chemiosmosis11]

"Dude, give up. You couldn't cut it"

 

I COULDN'T BUT OTHERS SHOULDN'T EVEN TRY.

 

FOR ME, IT IS TOO LATE. BUT FOR OTHERS? THEY STILL HAVE A CHANCE: BY AVOIDING WESTERN MEDSCI LIKE A PLAGUE.

 

ALL THEY NEED IS THE GPA. MEDICAL SCHOOL WILL NOT ASK YOU ABOUT NOR INVESTIGATE ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR GPA.

 

AND IN WESTERN MEDSCI YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET GPA, TRUST ME.

 

GO TO YORK KINE, AND IF YOU CAN, BOOST YOUR GPA THERE. AND IF YOU ARE GOOD, THEN APPLY FOR THE 3RD YEAR MEDSCI POOL. ALL YOU NEED IS 75% GPA, NOTHING ELSE.

 

BUT IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE LIKE I DID, AND FAIL 1ST YEAR WESTERN MEDSCI, THEN YOU ARE DONE FOREVER AS NO OTHER SCHOOL WILL EVER ACCEPT YOU WITH YOUR POOR GPA FROM WESTERN. 

 

SO, IF YOU REALLY THINK IT IS A STELLAR PROGRAM, THEN GO TO YORK KINE OR SIMILAR, OBTAIN 75% IN YOUR 2ND YEAR, AND APPLY FOR 3RD YEAR (REAL) MEDSCI WESTERN. I SAY REAL BECAUSE MEDSCI STARTS ONLY IN YOUR 3RD YEAR.

I think I'm beating a dead horse or I'm just getting massively trolled but...

 

Too late? It's never really too late if you really put your mind to it. Start a second degree maybe? Rewrite the MCAT? There are so many things you can do.

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I really, truly am. I know how difficult it can be and your frustration is understandable given normal circumstances. But you really can't turn your opinion into fact for everyone else, especially a vulnerable population of premed highschoolers. That's the part many people on this forum have issue with. Many of my friends who went to Western ended up with stellar GPAs, got into med, and are fantastic people overall. And no, the people I know are not exceptions, because professors don't e-mail people fake statistics.

 

I hope that if you are being serious here, you have some time to truly reflect if making these posts to stir hysteria is worth your time, and if you want to pursue medicine maybe reconsider your options. Don't let things hold you back.

[navr]

I think I'm beating a dead horse or I'm just getting massively trolled but...

 

Too late? It's never really too late if you really put your mind to it. Start a second degree maybe? Rewrite the MCAT? There are so many things you can do.

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I really, truly am. I know how difficult it can be and your frustration is understandable given normal circumstances. But you really can't turn your opinion into fact for everyone else, especially a vulnerable population of premed highschoolers. That's the part many people on this forum have issue with. Many of my friends who went to Western ended up with stellar GPAs, got into med, and are fantastic people overall. And no, the people I know are not exceptions, because professors don't e-mail people fake statistics.

 

I hope that if you are being serious here, you have some time to truly reflect if making these posts to stir hysteria is worth your time, and if you want to pursue medicine maybe reconsider your options. Don't let things hold you back.

We are all beating a dead horse here.

 

But I think it is worth it. I think that my message will resonate with 100s and 100s of potential applicants. Lets get the facts straight:

 

- nobody is denying western medsci to anybody. the program starts in 3rd year and you need GPA GPA GPA GPA to enter. 

 

- how to get GPA?  it is the fact that YORK KINE OR ANYTHING SIMILAR IS is much much much  easier than western medsci (or mcmaster biomedical or anything similar). how much easier? based on my core factual data, it is 30% easier. Thus, if you are a student getting 50% at western medsci, you would be getting 80% at york kine. if you are a student getting 40% at western medsci, you would be getting 70% at york kine. if you are a student getting 25% at western medsci, you would be getting 55% at york kine. Did you get my message?

 

- now consider this: why would you risk ALL YOUR FUTURE and enroll in so called "1st year western medsci"? Based on what I said above, THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

 

Why am I repeating this all over again?

 

Do I hope that I can somehow reverse the past??

 

No, of course not. I wish that at the time I was applying I could have read something like this. It would certainly get me thinking, and I am 100% sure I would not have chosen western medsci, no way. I would had enrolled into york kine and then see: if getting 90% at york kine, I would still have a chance to get into a medical school. If getting 80% there, I would maybe hope to get into pharmacy or similar. And if getting 70% or less, well at least I would be some kind of B. Sc. degree, i.e. I wouldn't waste any year read money.

 

WITH WESTERN MEDSCI, YOU PROSPECTIVE APPLICANT RISK EVERYTHING AND GET ALMOST NOTHING IN RETURN.

 

THIS IS PLAIN COMMON SENSE REASONING.

 

YOU GET NOTHING IN RETURN FOR THE RISK YOU ARE UNDERTAKING.

 

THE CALCULUS AT WESTERN MEDSCI IS ON PAR WITH THE CALCULUS ON THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS ENGINEERING PROGRAMS IN ONTARIO.

 

THE CHEMISTRY 1301/1302 IS THREE TIMES MORE DIFFICULT THAN THE CHEMISTRY ON THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS ENGINEERING PROGRAMS IN ONTARIO (MINUS OF COURSE ENGINEERING SCIENCE UOFT).

 

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM WESTERN MEDSCI ARE PEOPLE WHO GET >95%. AND YOU CAN COUNT THEM WITH ONE HAND. OUT OF 600 STUDENTS, ONLY 3 OR 4 GET > 95%. 

 

WHAT ABOUT PTHERS, WHO GET 90%, 80%?

 

THEY CAN SAY GOOD BYE MEDICAL SCHOOL. THEIR FUTURE IN SOME OBSCURE LAB IS BLEAK. THEY WILL BE BRINGING COFFEES TO REAL SCIENTISTS IN THE LABS. THEY WILL HAVE A VERY LOW SALARY FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFES.

 

WHAT ABOUT PHARMACY ETC.? WELL, WHAT ABOUT GOING TO YORK KINE IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND GO PHARMACY ROUTE FOR A FRACTION OF THE COST AND A FRACTION OF THE EFFORT??

 

I LEARNED ABOUT QUITE A FEW 3RD YEAR WESTERN MEDSCI STUDENTS WITH DESCENT 70% GPAs WHO GOT DISILLUSIONED WITH THIS PROGRAM AND ARE NOW SWITCHING TO OTHER PROGRAMS. OF COURSE THEY GOT DISILLUSIONED. WHAT IS IT THEY CAN HOPE FOR WITH 70% AVERAGE? YORK KINE STUDENTS GETTING 90% WILL HAVE PRECEDENCE OVER THEM IN APPLYING TO MEDICAL SCHOOLS AS WELL AS PHARMACY. AS I MENTIONED, MEDICAL SCHOOLS ARE LOOKING ONLY FOR YOUR GPA.

 

AND TRUST ME, 99% OF YOU PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS WILL NOT GET THAT HIGH GPA AT WESTERN MEDSCI. ON THE CONTRARY: YOU ARE GOING TO GET VERY VERY VERY VERY LOW GPA AT WESTERN MEDSCI.

 

 

REMEMBER, THERE ARE NO OFFICIAL LINKS TO MEDIANS/AVERAGES ACROSS ALL OF STUDENT POPULATION IN WESTERN MEDSCI.

 

THERE ARE NO OFFICIAL NUMBERS. THE NUMBERS ARE HIDDEN, AND THEY ARE HIDDEN FOR A REASON: IF THEY REVEALED IT, WHAT DO YOU THINK HOW MANY STUDENTS WOULD APPLY FOR "WESTERN MEDSCI 1ST YEAR"? 0.01% WOULD APPLY. AND ALL OF SUDDEN, OF THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS PROGRAM, IT WOULD BECOME THE LEAST PRESTIGIOUS ONE!

 

THAT'S WHY THEY HIDE THESE NUMBERS.

 

AND FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH, AND TO MAKE SURE I AM NOT IMAGINING THINGS RE DIFFICULTY OF WESTERN MEDSCI, I ENGAGED 2 (TWO!) PH.D., ONE IN INORGANIC, AND THE OTHER IN ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, TO GO OVER 1301 AND 1302 WESTERN MEDSCI TESTS AND EXAMS. THEY BOTH COULD NOT SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS, OR THEY SOLVED IT AFTER MANY HOURS OF RESEARCH! WHETHER IT WAS ENTHALPY, OR ENTROPY, OR EQUILIBRIUM, OR A COMBINATION OF THESE THINGS. THEY SAID TO ME THAT THIS IS PH.D. LEVEL, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AND I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES HOW THEY STRUGGLE TO SOLVE SOME PROBLEMS (IN ONE INSTANCE, EVEN I KNEW THE CORRECT ANSWER AND PH.D DIDN'T).

 

 

 

LISTE FOLKS, THIS IS PROBABLY THE 3RD MOST DIFFICULT PROGRAM IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

 

I ASSURE YOU THAT IT IS MORE DIFFICULT THAN 90% OF ENGINEERING PROGRAMS OUT THERE!

 

THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU APPLY! YOUR WHOLE FUTURE IS AT STAKE!

[chemEngMD]

We are all beating a dead horse here.

 

But I think it is worth it. I think that my message will resonate with 100s and 100s of potential applicants. Lets get the facts straight:

 

- nobody is denying western medsci to anybody. the program starts in 3rd year and you need GPA GPA GPA GPA to enter. 

 

- how to get GPA?  it is the fact that YORK KINE OR ANYTHING SIMILAR IS is much much much  easier than western medsci (or mcmaster biomedical or anything similar). how much easier? based on my core factual data, it is 30% easier. Thus, if you are a student getting 50% at western medsci, you would be getting 80% at york kine. if you are a student getting 40% at western medsci, you would be getting 70% at york kine. if you are a student getting 25% at western medsci, you would be getting 55% at york kine. Did you get my message?

 

- now consider this: why would you risk ALL YOUR FUTURE and enroll in so called "1st year western medsci"? Based on what I said above, THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

 

Why am I repeating this all over again?

 

Do I hope that I can somehow reverse the past??

 

No, of course not. I wish that at the time I was applying I could have read something like this. It would certainly get me thinking, and I am 100% sure I would not have chosen western medsci, no way. I would had enrolled into york kine and then see: if getting 90% at york kine, I would still have a chance to get into a medical school. If getting 80% there, I would maybe hope to get into pharmacy or similar. And if getting 70% or less, well at least I would be some kind of B. Sc. degree, i.e. I wouldn't waste any year read money.

 

WITH WESTERN MEDSCI, YOU PROSPECTIVE APPLICANT RISK EVERYTHING AND GET ALMOST NOTHING IN RETURN.

 

THIS IS PLAIN COMMON SENSE REASONING.

 

YOU GET NOTHING IN RETURN FOR THE RISK YOU ARE UNDERTAKING.

 

THE CALCULUS AT WESTERN MEDSCI IS ON PAR WITH THE CALCULUS ON THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS ENGINEERING PROGRAMS IN ONTARIO.

 

THE CHEMISTRY 1301/1302 IS THREE TIMES MORE DIFFICULT THAN THE CHEMISTRY ON THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS ENGINEERING PROGRAMS IN ONTARIO (MINUS OF COURSE ENGINEERING SCIENCE UOFT).

 

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM WESTERN MEDSCI ARE PEOPLE WHO GET >95%. AND YOU CAN COUNT THEM WITH ONE HAND. OUT OF 600 STUDENTS, ONLY 3 OR 4 GET > 95%. 

 

WHAT ABOUT PTHERS, WHO GET 90%, 80%?

 

THEY CAN SAY GOOD BYE MEDICAL SCHOOL. THEIR FUTURE IN SOME OBSCURE LAB IS BLEAK. THEY WILL BE BRINGING COFFEES TO REAL SCIENTISTS IN THE LABS. THEY WILL HAVE A VERY LOW SALARY FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFES.

 

WHAT ABOUT PHARMACY ETC.? WELL, WHAT ABOUT GOING TO YORK KINE IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND GO PHARMACY ROUTE FOR A FRACTION OF THE COST AND A FRACTION OF THE EFFORT??

 

I LEARNED ABOUT QUITE A FEW 3RD YEAR WESTERN MEDSCI STUDENTS WITH DESCENT 70% GPAs WHO GOT DISILLUSIONED WITH THIS PROGRAM AND ARE NOW SWITCHING TO OTHER PROGRAMS. OF COURSE THEY GOT DISILLUSIONED. WHAT IS IT THEY CAN HOPE FOR WITH 70% AVERAGE? YORK KINE STUDENTS GETTING 90% WILL HAVE PRECEDENCE OVER THEM IN APPLYING TO MEDICAL SCHOOLS AS WELL AS PHARMACY. AS I MENTIONED, MEDICAL SCHOOLS ARE LOOKING ONLY FOR YOUR GPA.

 

AND TRUST ME, 99% OF YOU PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS WILL NOT GET THAT HIGH GPA AT WESTERN MEDSCI. ON THE CONTRARY: YOU ARE GOING TO GET VERY VERY VERY VERY LOW GPA AT WESTERN MEDSCI.

 

 

REMEMBER, THERE ARE NO OFFICIAL LINKS TO MEDIANS/AVERAGES ACROSS ALL OF STUDENT POPULATION IN WESTERN MEDSCI.

 

THERE ARE NO OFFICIAL NUMBERS. THE NUMBERS ARE HIDDEN, AND THEY ARE HIDDEN FOR A REASON: IF THEY REVEALED IT, WHAT DO YOU THINK HOW MANY STUDENTS WOULD APPLY FOR "WESTERN MEDSCI 1ST YEAR"? 0.01% WOULD APPLY. AND ALL OF SUDDEN, OF THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS PROGRAM, IT WOULD BECOME THE LEAST PRESTIGIOUS ONE!

 

THAT'S WHY THEY HIDE THESE NUMBERS.

 

AND FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH, AND TO MAKE SURE I AM NOT IMAGINING THINGS RE DIFFICULTY OF WESTERN MEDSCI, I ENGAGED 2 (TWO!) PH.D., ONE IN INORGANIC, AND THE OTHER IN ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, TO GO OVER 1301 AND 1302 WESTERN MEDSCI TESTS AND EXAMS. THEY BOTH COULD NOT SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS, OR THEY SOLVED IT AFTER MANY HOURS OF RESEARCH! WHETHER IT WAS ENTHALPY, OR ENTROPY, OR EQUILIBRIUM, OR A COMBINATION OF THESE THINGS. THEY SAID TO ME THAT THIS IS PH.D. LEVEL, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AND I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES HOW THEY STRUGGLE TO SOLVE SOME PROBLEMS (IN ONE INSTANCE, EVEN I KNEW THE CORRECT ANSWER AND PH.D DIDN'T).

 

 

 

LISTE FOLKS, THIS IS PROBABLY THE 3RD MOST DIFFICULT PROGRAM IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

 

I ASSURE YOU THAT IT IS MORE DIFFICULT THAN 90% OF ENGINEERING PROGRAMS OUT THERE!

 

THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU APPLY! YOUR WHOLE FUTURE IS AT STAKE!

m

[oneschoolonedream]

I gave up an easier program at a local school in my home province for a notorious ON biomed/lifesci program and I wouldn't change a thing. Yeah, its been harder to get the grades I need for med, but I wouldn't change a thing because of the opportunities I've had to be a part of some really amazing projects and teams here that I would never have had at a smaller school. And I've pushed myself way harder than I thought I could because I'm motivated by the other students in my program and how passionate they are about achieving their goals

I second this experiential opportunities are equally important and also environment and community.  

[Mjacob45]

I just saw that this thread was getting more comments, and wanted to clarify/add my opinion on Western med sci to balance out some of the more extreme comments on this thread (as somebody who was in it for my first two years of undergrad). If you put in the work, I believe its possible to do well. I got 80s in the first year bio courses and high 70s in the first year chemistry courses and physics, and I believe that many of my friends were in the same boat. In second year, I knew how to study much better and got 80s and 90s in everything except organic chem (high 70s). So, while not amazing, Western med sci did not ruin my chances for anything, and I do not regret my choices. I ended up going the psych route though, since I found psych/neuroscience/cognitive and developmental psych more interesting than a lot of the more basic science classes in med sci. I was also able then to take the med sci courses that I was interested in as electives (i.e. physiology, microbiology/immunology), without having to take courses I was not interested in (i.e. cell bio). I was also a lot more interested in psych research, which I ended up getting involved with, doing an honours thesis, which allowed me to get hospital clinical research positions later on, which I really liked. Basically, my advice is to go with your strengths/what you enjoy and I think its definitely possible to do well in Western med sci if you put in the work. Many people have a rough first year, regardless of what program they are in. Good luck to everybody reading this!

[Olle]

I've attended BOTH Western Med Sci AND UBC first year science (due to personal circumstances).

While Western Med Sci isn't the easiest program you can find, it is definitely not the most difficult to excel in (if you can find a balance between partying and studying).

The guy says that the program is on par with Ontario's top engineering programs in terms of difficulty but this is nonsense. If you go to Western's **DELETED** page, birdcourses.com, or ratemyprof, they will tell you that some of the physics and math courses offered at the university is a joke. 

For instance, 85% of the math midterm questions were basically recycled onto the successive midterm, and I ended up getting a really high mark, just by reviewing the practice midterm questions. Physics is a joke cause the tests, quizzes were online. Bio was a bit more difficult than other courses but if you can study efficiently, a mark in the high 80s is definitely achievable.

Overall, despite Med Sci's fancy title, its no more than any other bio-medical science courses out there. I find UBC more difficult than Western, but in the end, it all depends on you. I've come to the realization that no school is significantly harder than the other.

 

The guy who suggests that Western is significantly difficult is just realizing how easy high school was.

I believe a first year class average between 67~75% (in biology programs) is standard at Canadian universities at any rate, and does not mean the program is difficult beyond reason.

[navr]

I've attended BOTH Western Med Sci AND UBC first year science (due to personal circumstances).

While Western Med Sci isn't the easiest program you can find, it is definitely not the most difficult to excel in (if you can find a balance between partying and studying).

The guy says that the program is on par with Ontario's top engineering programs in terms of difficulty but this is nonsense. If you go to Western's **DELETED** page, birdcourses.com, or ratemyprof, they will tell you that some of the physics and math courses offered at the university is a joke. 

For instance, 85% of the math midterm questions were basically recycled onto the successive midterm, and I ended up getting a really high mark, just by reviewing the practice midterm questions. Physics is a joke cause the tests, quizzes were online. Bio was a bit more difficult than other courses but if you can study efficiently, a mark in the high 80s is definitely achievable.

Overall, despite Med Sci's fancy title, its no more than any other bio-medical science courses out there. I find UBC more difficult than Western, but in the end, it all depends on you. I've come to the realization that no school is significantly harder than the other.

 

The guy who suggests that Western is significantly difficult is just realizing how easy high school was.

I believe a first year class average between 67~75% (in biology programs) is standard at Canadian universities at any rate, and does not mean the program is difficult beyond reason.

 

find a balance between partying and studying

<<<

 

You only have 2 hours, usually between 2 and 4pm to study during the day. Minus 30min lunch (if you eat). You have classes whole morning, and afternoons/evenings.

If you are at a dorm, it takes 10min (if you are a fast walker) to reach your class (it is a big big campus). And 10min back (if you do not stay at the library like a zombi. If you do, you'll save 20min per day).

 

10min there, 10min back. eat. 10min there, 10min back. eat. shower. WHEN DO YOU STUDY?

 

I am telling you, there is no time to study. Successful guys I met STUDY WHILE ATTENDING CLASSES. That's it. Whoever can do that is a highly capable individual.

 

Also, I found out that people who are average but stay in a difficult program like this one, sleep on average 4 (FOUR) hours per day. I am NOT able to do that. Psychophysically. I sleep at least 8 hours pee day. I.e. I have 4hrs less per day compared to an average but successful student. 4 x 5 = 20 hrs per week.

 

I simply cannot function with 4hrs sleep. Not even 6hrs.

 

They say you need TWO times more hours for studying than hours spent in classes. That means that you can sleep max 4hrs per day.

 

 

 

I have 700 slides covering Chem 1301 and 1302. SEVEN HUNDRED. Just imagine how many details etc you need to pass.. Chemistry on engineering programs is a JOKE compared to Western 1301/1302, period. As I mentioned, two PhD in Chemistry struggled on some problems, they were uncertain.

 

And once you get stuck in a program like Western medsci and fail you may think that you'll transfer to ryerson or similar. Wrong. Because of your low GPA, neither ryerson nor york will accept you ever. You'll end up working in Kentucky Fried Chicken till the end of your life, like I did. Every year there is more and more candidates applying to Ryerson. Very soon, Ryerson will become a prestigious university, york as well (at york you pay what you enrol in, a good thing).

And at one time, after high school, I was accepted on top two ryerson engineering co-op programs with >90% average, scholarship etc. And I turned them down for western medsci. I made a big big mistake, I would be now 2nd yr biomed engineering, a beautiful program. Instead, now I am nobody, a burger flipper, a chicken wings seller.

 

Prospective applicants, beware ! Open 4 eyes. Educate yourself. Go to york kine. Choose ryerson and york over western ANY TIME OF THE DAY.

[Student07]

find a balance between partying and studying

<<<

 

You only have 2 hours, usually between 2 and 4pm to study during the day. Minus 30min lunch (if you eat). You have classes whole morning, and afternoons/evenings.

If you are at a dorm, it takes 10min (if you are a fast walker) to reach your class (it is a big big campus). And 10min back (if you do not stay at the library like a zombi. If you do, you'll save 20min per day).

 

10min there, 10min back. eat. 10min there, 10min back. eat. shower. WHEN DO YOU STUDY?

 

I am telling you, there is no time to study. Successful guys I met STUDY WHILE ATTENDING CLASSES. That's it. Whoever can do that is a highly capable individual.

 

Also, I found out that people who are average but stay in a difficult program like this one, sleep on average 4 (FOUR) hours per day. I am NOT able to do that. Psychophysically. I sleep at least 8 hours pee day. I.e. I have 4hrs less per day compared to an average but successful student. 4 x 5 = 20 hrs per week.

 

I simply cannot function with 4hrs sleep. Not even 6hrs.

 

They say you need TWO times more hours for studying than hours spent in classes. That means that you can sleep max 4hrs per day.

 

 

 

I have 700 slides covering Chem 1301 and 1302. SEVEN HUNDRED. Just imagine how many details etc you need to pass.. Chemistry on engineering programs is a JOKE compared to Western 1301/1302, period. As I mentioned, two PhD in Chemistry struggled on some problems, they were uncertain.

 

And once you get stuck in a program like Western medsci and fail you may think that you'll transfer to ryerson or similar. Wrong. Because of your low GPA, neither ryerson nor york will accept you ever. You'll end up working in Kentucky Fried Chicken till the end of your life, like I did. Every year there is more and more candidates applying to Ryerson. Very soon, Ryerson will become a prestigious university, york as well (at york you pay what you enrol in, a good thing).

And at one time, after high school, I was accepted on top two ryerson engineering co-op programs with >90% average, scholarship etc. And I turned them down for western medsci. I made a big big mistake, I would be now 2nd yr biomed engineering, a beautiful program. Instead, now I am nobody, a burger flipper, a chicken wings seller.

 

Prospective applicants, beware ! Open 4 eyes. Educate yourself. Go to york kine. Choose ryerson and york over western ANY TIME OF THE DAY.

 

I just started my first year at Western for Medical Science and I must say I am so glad I only saw this post after accepting Western or it may have discouraged me from choosing an awesome program. From what you've said it doesn't even sound like you go to Western. "You only have 2 hours, usually between 2 and 4pm to study during the day"   <--This statement doesn't even make sense... how could you only have until 4 pm to study. The world doesn't magically shut down at 4pm you could just study after 4 (wow! such a groundbreaking idea). In fact MOST people do study after 4, not because they have to but because most students are night owls. 

Also, while at western I haven't seen any students needing to study during lectures, If anything I see an unusually high proportion of students on Facebook during lectures. 

Finally, instead of blaming a perfectly good program for you poor grades, maybe you should blame yourself. The term test 1 average for Bio this year was 79%, that's higher than most high school class averages. I myself got 97% on the first term test, and I have above 90% in 4 out of my 5 courses (the one that is below 90 is still above 85%). I have a social life, I am part of many clubs, and I have managed to get these grades without an extreme amount of study time (about 5 total study hours before the first bio test, and about 8 total hours of total study time before the calc midterm). Western's not that hard, sometimes I find it even easier than high school (and I went to a regular public school-no IB and no AP courses)

​It's not just me that manages to get good grades, for every exam we've had so far a few students get perfect, many of my med sci peers have no problem the meeting 80% average requirement needed for Ivey and my own roommate (who is also in Med sci) has an average above 90%.

 

Have you just considered that you went to a high school that practiced severe grade inflation, you were not adequately prepared for med sci (and possibly university in general), and/or that you're just not as bright as you thought you were?   

 

So stop trashing my school!! Gooooo Mustangs!!!

[m_jacob_45]

find a balance between partying and studying

<<<

 

You only have 2 hours, usually between 2 and 4pm to study during the day. Minus 30min lunch (if you eat). You have classes whole morning, and afternoons/evenings.

If you are at a dorm, it takes 10min (if you are a fast walker) to reach your class (it is a big big campus). And 10min back (if you do not stay at the library like a zombi. If you do, you'll save 20min per day).

 

10min there, 10min back. eat. 10min there, 10min back. eat. shower. WHEN DO YOU STUDY?

 

I am telling you, there is no time to study. Successful guys I met STUDY WHILE ATTENDING CLASSES. That's it. Whoever can do that is a highly capable individual.

 

Also, I found out that people who are average but stay in a difficult program like this one, sleep on average 4 (FOUR) hours per day. I am NOT able to do that. Psychophysically. I sleep at least 8 hours pee day. I.e. I have 4hrs less per day compared to an average but successful student. 4 x 5 = 20 hrs per week.

 

I simply cannot function with 4hrs sleep. Not even 6hrs.

 

They say you need TWO times more hours for studying than hours spent in classes. That means that you can sleep max 4hrs per day.

 

 

 

I have 700 slides covering Chem 1301 and 1302. SEVEN HUNDRED. Just imagine how many details etc you need to pass.. Chemistry on engineering programs is a JOKE compared to Western 1301/1302, period. As I mentioned, two PhD in Chemistry struggled on some problems, they were uncertain.

 

And once you get stuck in a program like Western medsci and fail you may think that you'll transfer to ryerson or similar. Wrong. Because of your low GPA, neither ryerson nor york will accept you ever. You'll end up working in Kentucky Fried Chicken till the end of your life, like I did. Every year there is more and more candidates applying to Ryerson. Very soon, Ryerson will become a prestigious university, york as well (at york you pay what you enrol in, a good thing).

And at one time, after high school, I was accepted on top two ryerson engineering co-op programs with >90% average, scholarship etc. And I turned them down for western medsci. I made a big big mistake, I would be now 2nd yr biomed engineering, a beautiful program. Instead, now I am nobody, a burger flipper, a chicken wings seller.

 

Prospective applicants, beware ! Open 4 eyes. Educate yourself. Go to york kine. Choose ryerson and york over western ANY TIME OF THE DAY.

 

I think it depends how you structure your schedule. I would usually try to put all of my classes into 3-4 days a week. I would then spend about 2 hours a day studying on days I had class and spend about ~5-8 hours a day studying on days I did not have class and weekends. Also, just thought I would add in response to the zombie comment that staying at the library in itself is a great strategy to get things done. You save time (as you mentioned), have less distractions around than at home, and it tends to have an environment that is really conducive to studying (especially the basement of Taylor for me). To each their own though, I have some highly successful friends who rarely studied in the library, but for me, that was definitely the way to go. That still left enough time to eat, hang out with friends, volunteer, work out and get involved with res life. I have never pulled an "all-nighter", and generally got 6-8 hours of sleep, which is normal for me. Good luck with everything! 

[m_jacob_45]

I just started my first year at Western for Medical Science and I must say I am so glad I only saw this post after accepting Western or it may have discouraged me from choosing an awesome program. From what you've said it doesn't even sound like you go to Western. "You only have 2 hours, usually between 2 and 4pm to study during the day"   <--This statement doesn't even make sense... how could you only have until 4 pm to study. The world doesn't magically shut down at 4pm you could just study after 4 (wow! such a groundbreaking idea). In fact MOST people do study after 4, not because they have to but because most students are night owls. 

Also, while at western I haven't seen any students needing to study during lectures, If anything I see an unusually high proportion of students on Facebook during lectures. 

Finally, instead of blaming a perfectly good program for you poor grades, maybe you should blame yourself. The term test 1 average for Bio this year was 79%, that's higher than most high school class averages. I myself got 97% on the first term test, and I have above 90% in 4 out of my 5 courses (the one that is below 90 is still above 85%). I have a social life, I am part of many clubs, and I have managed to get these grades without an extreme amount of study time (about 5 total study hours before the first bio test, and about 8 total hours of total study time before the calc midterm). Western's not that hard, sometimes I find it even easier than high school (and I went to a regular public school-no IB and no AP courses)

​It's not just me that manages to get good grades, for every exam we've had so far a few students get perfect, many of my med sci peers have no problem the meeting 80% average requirement needed for Ivey and my own roommate (who is also in Med sci) has an average above 90%.

 

Have you just considered that you went to a high school that practiced severe grade inflation, you were not adequately prepared for med sci (and possibly university in general), and/or that you're just not as bright as you thought you were?   

 

So stop trashing my school!! Gooooo Mustangs!!!

 

Go mustangs!!! But on a more serious note, make sure not to "take it easy" now that you're doing really well. I had really high marks in a few classes going into finals, but some of my marks dropped below 80 because the profs realized that their class averages were too high and made the finals significantly harder. Just giving you a heads up, hopefully everything will continue to go great! Good luck! 

[navr]

I just started my first year at Western for Medical Science and I must say I am so glad I only saw this post after accepting Western or it may have discouraged me from choosing an awesome program. From what you've said it doesn't even sound like you go to Western. "You only have 2 hours, usually between 2 and 4pm to study during the day"   <--This statement doesn't even make sense... how could you only have until 4 pm to study. The world doesn't magically shut down at 4pm you could just study after 4 (wow! such a groundbreaking idea). In fact MOST people do study after 4, not because they have to but because most students are night owls. 

Also, while at western I haven't seen any students needing to study during lectures, If anything I see an unusually high proportion of students on Facebook during lectures. 

Finally, instead of blaming a perfectly good program for you poor grades, maybe you should blame yourself. The term test 1 average for Bio this year was 79%, that's higher than most high school class averages. I myself got 97% on the first term test, and I have above 90% in 4 out of my 5 courses (the one that is below 90 is still above 85%). I have a social life, I am part of many clubs, and I have managed to get these grades without an extreme amount of study time (about 5 total study hours before the first bio test, and about 8 total hours of total study time before the calc midterm). Western's not that hard, sometimes I find it even easier than high school (and I went to a regular public school-no IB and no AP courses)

​It's not just me that manages to get good grades, for every exam we've had so far a few students get perfect, many of my med sci peers have no problem the meeting 80% average requirement needed for Ivey and my own roommate (who is also in Med sci) has an average above 90%.

 

Have you just considered that you went to a high school that practiced severe grade inflation, you were not adequately prepared for med sci (and possibly university in general), and/or that you're just not as bright as you thought you were?   

 

So stop trashing my school!! Gooooo Mustangs!!!

I just started my first year at Western for Medical Science and I must say I am so glad I only saw this post after accepting Western or it may have discouraged me from choosing an awesome program

 

<<<<<<

 

I just read the above and stopped right there. You see, no matter what happens with you at western or elsewhere, your future is bleak because you lack basic logical reasoning skills.  Unfortunately, you do not deserve my response

[navr]

I think it depends how you structure your schedule. I would usually try to put all of my classes into 3-4 days a week. I would then spend about 2 hours a day studying on days I had class and spend about ~5-8 hours a day studying on days I did not have class and weekends. Also, just thought I would add in response to the zombie comment that staying at the library in itself is a great strategy to get things done. You save time (as you mentioned), have less distractions around than at home, and it tends to have an environment that is really conducive to studying (especially the basement of Taylor for me). To each their own though, I have some highly successful friends who rarely studied in the library, but for me, that was definitely the way to go. That still left enough time to eat, hang out with friends, volunteer, work out and get involved with res life. I have never pulled an "all-nighter", and generally got 6-8 hours of sleep, which is normal for me. Good luck with everything! 

 and generally got 6-8 hours of sleep

<<<<<<

 

There you have it. You slept 6hrs but most likely that converted to 4-5 before tests, and boy these are CONSTANT NUISANCE. It is a never ending stream of activities. So you sleep 3 hrs less per day than me. That is 15 HOURS more at your disposal M-F. It is a SIGNIFICANT advantage. I personally, if I do not sleep 9 hrs per day, I get a severe brain fog plus I become very irritable. I simply can't function without 9hrs of sleep (and over weekends that becomes 10hr Sa and 10hr Sun). That's just the way it is. Also, some very honest people told me that they gather in the library 4 or 5 in the group, where each individual leads in the area where he is the strongest e.g. enthalpy, physics, calc etc. By dividing the workload among those 4-5 individuals, everything becomes manageable. These two things, 4hrs sleep + being a member in study groups, allegedly can help. But in the 1st year, you do not know your name not to mention to find such group of valuable people. And you have to bring something to the table, you cannot just take from the group. I remember once I got 0 out of 10 in Bio because I did not submit on time. It just slipped through my net.

[m_jacob_45]

 and generally got 6-8 hours of sleep

<<<<<<

 

There you have it. You slept 6hrs but most likely that converted to 4-5 before tests, and boy these are CONSTANT NUISANCE. It is a never ending stream of activities. So you sleep 3 hrs less per day than me. That is 15 HOURS more at your disposal M-F. It is a SIGNIFICANT advantage. I personally, if I do not sleep 9 hrs per day, I get a severe brain fog plus I become very irritable. I simply can't function without 9hrs of sleep (and over weekends that becomes 10hr Sa and 10hr Sun). That's just the way it is. Also, some very honest people told me that they gather in the library 4 or 5 in the group, where each individual leads in the area where he is the strongest e.g. enthalpy, physics, calc etc. By dividing the workload among those 4-5 individuals, everything becomes manageable. These two things, 4hrs sleep + being a member in study groups, allegedly can help. But in the 1st year, you do not know your name not to mention to find such group of valuable people. And you have to bring something to the table, you cannot just take from the group. I remember once I got 0 out of 10 in Bio because I did not submit on time. It just slipped through my net.

 

Hey there! Again I think its really important to find what works for you when it comes to school/getting good grades. I personally never liked group studying since I find it easy to get distracted, waste time, and spend too much time on areas that I already know or not enough time on what I need to work on, so I always studied for exams/ class material by myself, usually in the cubicle section of the library. Also, for sleeping, I would usually increase the amount of time sleeping right before exams. So, the night before an exam, I would make sure to always get 8 hours at least. I do have some friends who would pull all nighters or sleep 4-5 hours, but I could never do that or I would usually not feel well the next day.

 

So, again, I think its really important for anybody reading this sub to know that you may have to experiment with different strategies to get really good grades. For instance, in second year, I started to treat school more like a full time job and would make sure to be studying in the library from 9-5 (aside from classes, eating lunch of course), and then would usually go home/ do extracurricular activities and not study anymore for the rest of the night. In first year, I did not use the library as much and slept in a lot more, so I found that wasted a lot of time, and as a result my average increased from 79 to 85 between first and second year, and I continued improving from there. 

[navr]

Hey there! Again I think its really important to find what works for you when it comes to school/getting good grades. I personally never liked group studying since I find it easy to get distracted, waste time, and spend too much time on areas that I already know or not enough time on what I need to work on, so I always studied for exams/ class material by myself, usually in the cubicle section of the library. Also, for sleeping, I would usually increase the amount of time sleeping right before exams. So, the night before an exam, I would make sure to always get 8 hours at least. I do have some friends who would pull all nighters or sleep 4-5 hours, but I could never do that or I would usually not feel well the next day.

 

So, again, I think its really important for anybody reading this sub to know that you may have to experiment with different strategies to get really good grades. For instance, in second year, I started to treat school more like a full time job and would make sure to be studying in the library from 9-5 (aside from classes, eating lunch of course), and then would usually go home/ do extracurricular activities and not study anymore for the rest of the night. In first year, I did not use the library as much and slept in a lot more, so I found that wasted a lot of time, and as a result my average increased from 79 to 85 between first and second year, and I continued improving from there. 

 

The optimal strategies are not easy to come up when you start. And if you make a single mistake, you are done. If you are getting 70% or more you are fine, although even then, knowing strategies can help.

 

For example, do you know what is the easiest path toward ANY honors specialization program in western science (not med science, that is of reach for 90% of applicants), in particular concerning 1st year requirements?

I bet you do not know off the top of your head. When I say the easiest, I mean the least amount possible of mandatory math, but still being able to enter (any) science honors specialization.

The reason is that this information is not explicit. Nowhere you will find what EXACTLY, at minimum, you need, in order to enter honors specialization science program at western 3rd year.

 

And timelines of fulfilling those requirements, e.g. if you can take a course in the summer of your 2nd year, that is much better strategy than if you have to take it in your 1st year.

The strategy, by all likelihood, must focus on the MINIMAL set of courses in each semester, with a view to taking as much as possible during 1st and 2nd year summers.

 

I was unable to find that information so far. For example, I now know that Physics 1028 may not be needed until the summer of your 2nd year ! I didn't know that when I started my 1st year.

 

With Math, I have no idea what is the minimal requirement for honors specialization. I read a ton of materials and spoke with many advisors, and I can say is I still do not know.

[ChooseYourPlan]

Hello everyone, 

 

I am recent graduate of Biomedical Sciences (BMSc). After reading through the thread, I wanted to contribute my thoughts and experiences on Biomedical Sciences program offered at University of Western Ontario or Western University. After all, it was the only undergrad I finished, making it the best and the worst undergrad of my life.

 

First, I will disclose some personal information. Although I am not gifted, I did attend one of the top high schools in Canada thanks to my better-than-average ability to memorize information quickly and regurgitate in time for exams, at least most of the time. Because of my laziness, I did not participate in Scholars program (although one of my best friends did so I can illuminate on that subject a bit if needed). I also attended Western University with the intent of pursuing BMSc and Ivey dual degree. Owing to my dislike for business after finishing pre-Ivey course, I concentrated my efforts on BMSc. By luck, I had the opportunity to participate in Western's Science Internship Program. Eventually I had graduated in Honors Specialization in Immunology and Microbiology.

 

I will try to organize my post by Year and classes I attended. Hopefully that will be helpful in telling my journey through BMSc at Western.

 

Year 1

 

Like most 1st year undergrads, I lived in residence - Saugeen-Maitland. It is situated right on campus, meaning I could sleep until 5 minutes before class and not cook for myself. Luckily, I was blessed with my floormates who will become my family, a blessing some of my other friends did not receive.

 

As for the courses, I took all the Science prerequisites plus that one psychology course many take as the "bird" course. As someone mentioned earlier, universities in general try to ease people into university life. For example, as someone earlier mentioned, many of the 1st year science courses have freebies such as 10% mark for attendance, 20-30% mark for labs. Why are they freebies? Well, for attendance, you only had to show up to class, labs or seminars led by a TA. Yes, you get free marks for showing up. First year labs, at least when I was a 1st year, the labs were literal fill in the blanks. Show up, follow instructions and fill in the blanks and hand it in - no crazy reports to be written. The rest of the mark was divvied up into usually 2 midterm exams and 1 final. Many of them were not even cumulative - how generous.

 

Not only do they try to ease you in giving out easy marks, with plenty of student support available, all you need is to have the courage to visit and talk to your councilor.

Stressed out? Overwhelmed? Defer your exam/paper. Easy. Well, maybe not that easy.

 

Now onto the courses. This is what I took in 1st year:

 

Bio 1001A  

Bio 1002B

Calculus 1000A

Calc 1301B

Chem 1100A

Chem 1200B

Physics 1028A

Phys 1029B

Psychol 1000

 

Other than physics, the rest were VERY FAIR courses. Not only that, but the university made sure to have the best TEACHERS (notice I said teachers, not PROFESSORS) lined up in said courses. You are taught what you need to know for the exam in a clear, straightforward manner. Of course, this did not mean you could pass with flying colors. You HAVE TO PUT IN THE EFFORT.

Everyone has a different method to study. This 1st year of university is the time for you to find out HOW and HOW MUCH you need to invest to do well. Still struggling? That's okay, there are support programs to help you guide you along, you just need to have the courage to attend them, there's no shame in needing help.

 

As for physics, yes ZINKE physics. He tends to go off tangent and talk forever about this and that in his dutch or whatever accent. Plus he had weekly quizzes but they are online. Still, you can only blame the professor only so much. If you put in the time and effort, including visiting him to ask questions, you will succeed. The time is ripe for you to grow as a student and an individual. No longer can you blame the teachers, professors, school or anything with so much support provided, but yourself.

 

At the end of the 1st year, you confirm your decision to continue on to BMSc. If you invest your time and effort by diligently studying, you can be accepted. If not, maybe this side wasn't suited as much as you thought it was. You can always talk to the councilor and find the right program for you. This is not the end of the world.

 

Year 2

 

Now, I've moved out of residence, for better or worse. Living with two floormates who have become very close friends of mine. Cooking for myself and cleaning became an issue.

 

Familiar faces in the courses but the numbers have dwindled. People need to realize universities are not meant for everyone nor for people not willing to change. After all, you need to realize you are investing in yourself - your future. If you don't, well, no matter how much you blame others, the sun will rise tomorrow with or without you.

 

Courses

 

Biochem 2280A

Bio 2290F

Bio 2382B

Bio 2486A

Bio 2581B

Business 2257 - "Pre-Ivey"

Chem 2213A

Chem 2223B

Stats 2244B

 

All straightforward. Chem 2213 and 2223 are organic chemistry. If you took Orgo in high school and you thought that was hard or interesting, well this will fuck you up. If you really like it, then maybe you are THAT guy/girl. =)

Anyway, Orgo was and still is the first mountain you learn to scale. This is where you learn you need to sit the fuck down and study. If you don't, then kiss your pre-med goodbye. You've been warned.

Oh and, less TEACHERS and more PROFESSORS teaching the courses. The two are just as smart as the other and both do research. Except the latter and their ability to teach leaves a lot to be desired. Still, they are always welcoming during their office hours for questions and clarification. Most of the time, they are willing to go the extra mile to make sure you leave satisfied! Also the TAs are always leading seminars or whatever. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OFFICE HOURS. TAKE EVERYTHING YOU ARE OWED!!!

 

Oh, and labs are not freebies anymore. Oh and there aren't as many freebies, I think the only freebie I remember was attending seminars for like 5% or something. Oh and now you are lucky to get 2 midterms. Usually 1 midterm and (usually but not always) cumulative final. Except cell bio. That shit is easy AF.

 

Year 3

 

Further pruning. Still familiar faces here and there. Now you are in your selected module, if you want to pursue specialization honors you gotta give it all. Well, you should be giving it all by now or learned you should. After all, everyone in that room has the same thing in mind - med school.

So by some unwanted divine guidance I ended up in Immunology and Microbiology. I very much enjoy immunology (pretty much a bastard child of biochem and cell bio applied to immune system) but micro, not so much. If only you could take Immuno only. Well I hear Toronto has a good Immuno degree. Too bad.

 

Courses

 

Biochem 3381A

Classics 2300

Medbio 3503G

Microbiology Immunology courses x 4

Physiol 3120

Science 3391 - Science internship program

 

By the way, your module doesn't really START until 3rd year. So despite whatever other people tell you, 1st and 2nd year BMSc, everyone is pretty much on the same boat - getting prereqs done for their modules and finishing requisites for med school.

This is when your lab courses are teaching you to write professional, articles. Publishing style. Ya, writing up lab in publication format is the insidious killer of your free-time and grade so good luck.

Now, you are taking your module and faculty-related courses. You get to mingle and meet all your professors. Lovely folk. I advise you to talk to them, show some initiative. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT DOORS IT WILL OPEN.

I highly recommend Classics for bird course. Very enjoyable. Learn tons of stuff about Ancient Olympics and Ancients Greeks and their love of olive oil. Easy marks also

.

Oh ya, 3rd year shit hits the fan. It's solid shit tho, so it doesn't get too messy. And by this time you should know how to clean up after yourself.

 

Now, this is when I got tricked into taking Science 3391 to take part in Western Science Internship program by my best friend. Easy course, you don't really do anything other than attend a session or two here and there on how to do interviews and write up a proper resume.

 

Pretty much certain internship positions are reserved for Western students or university students only. Through this program you have a very strong university support and opportunity to get a full time job for a year or two depending on the contract. You work as soon as you finish 3rd year, then come back for 4th year to finish your degree. I highly recommend, since it builds up your rapport, polishes your social skills and exposes you to so many references and stories to tell in your Med MMI / interviews.

By the way, those personalized experiences and stories are what make you stand out from robotic canned responses in MMI/interviews.

 

Year 4

 

Finished working full time, now I know what being a cog in the machine feels like. Yes that's what's waiting for us out there so enjoy High school and Undergrad while you can. Oh and you are responsible for contacting and being matched to professor and his/her project for your 4th year Honors Spec research Project. It's intensely competitive to get good project because that will make you hate life less. And you will learn to laugh (and cry) at all those Masters / PhD candidate memes and cartoons on the internet.

 

Of course, you don't have to do honors spec. Just Spec or general BMSc is good too. After all, med schools don't care at all about what degree you have under your belt. Well, maybe Schulich does a bit I don't know.

 

Courses

 

Biochem 3386B

English 1022E - Full Year english course advanced by David Bentley - LOVELY COURSE

Medbio 3501F

4th year MicroImm courses x 4

Music 1122b - my one bird course... why did I take full year english again? and advanced at that? I do not know. Oh right you need to to apply to med schools in other parts of Canada!

 

So 4th year. Along with Full year research project... Did I mention the tears and 20+ hours of lab time spent on procedures you are gonna mess up and you know you will and you will have to "optimize" it. Did i say 20? I meant more like 30+ haha just kidding.

Oh and this is on top of 2 seminar presentations by you and 1 full publication format and quality write up that will be 20+ pages. hahaha. Totally worth it tho. You get to build so much relationships and they are a gift that just keeps giving. BUT THAT DEPENDS ON YOU!

 

4th Year courses are like crap hitting the fan, except it's not solid. It's more like diarrhea poop so it's gonna make a big mess. But you should be a pro at it by now. By the way, it gets worse in med school. ;^)

 

You should have taken MCAT by now, and October finishing up your med school applications on top of school. Very busy busy but very close.

 

All this stress and work is second nature by now and you should appreciate how much you have grown as a person and a scholar.

 

Some courses are worse than others, but overall, Western has given me so much to learn, so many opportunities to meet professors and share our views. You can build lifelong friendships and rapport that will make you shine like a gem in your med application.

 

Ultimately, it does not really matter what university you go to. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, depends on you and how much you are willing to explore and build yourself to be appealing to the med acceptance board or whatever. And Western and BMSc gives you more than enough to accomplish that.