trinhk2 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I've done much research specifically upon "RN to MD" and I guess everyone's case is different and situational like the one I am about to share with you. I am new to this online forum, so please bare with me if I am not specific enough or if I should be directed elsewhere. I am an RN of 3 years now. I currently work on a "Clinical Teaching Unit" (Medical students undergoing clerkship and perhaps residents would be familiar with the functionality of this unit). Anyway, I would like to first and foremost say that Nursing is a wonderful career and I have learned and still am learning something new in the medical world and it has been nothing but a positive experience thus far. I went into nursing school with the intent of wanting to be a nurse and work toward a future of endless career opportunities within this field (i.e. ER, ICU, ect...). It wasn't until working on CTU that I started to be more observant of medical students and I often found myself becoming more engaged with the students and teaching physician - I've got to known most of the attending physicians and have a a lot more respect for what they do, as this unit is very busy and stressful. If there is anything that is very apparent, it's the way nurses and doctors perceive a situation. In rounds, it's easy for me to make a suggestion about what I want for a patient with regards to their symptoms, but MD's take the extra step with their critical thinking and may or may not implement a recommendation and that is what I admire - the meticulous details and analyzing of options to make a decision. As a result, I've been feeling less satisfied with my work even though I know i am playing some role in providing the best possible care for my patients. I never give myself enough credit for where I am or the journey that led me here. I feel as if I never gave medicine a thought when going through university and I wrote myself off for medical school and carried on into nursing. Now that I have health care experience, the urge is now more apparent to me to make a career change, I am writing this post today to acknowledge a passion that has taken a while to figure out and am willing to intellectually challenge myself in more ways than I could possibly imagine, Essentially, I want to make this personal development and transition from Nursing to MD and give myself the opportunity to work hard toward a goal in mind. Being an alumni, I spoke to an Academic Adviser at my university recently and she provided me with options of where to start. I had several concerns: 1.) GPA - I need to have a strong GPA... there is no way around this - I understand that there are thousands of applicants with a strong GPA to support their admission. I do not have the strongest GPA from nursing school (which was 3 years ago), at least not the score that I would feel is satisfactory. I can't go back in the past and change this but what I plan to do in the future could be worth it if I really want to pursue medical school. My AA advised me to take the "pre req" courses to increase my GPA and although some medical schools do not require "pre reqs" such as biology, organic chem ect.. I believe they are beneficial and that doesn't take a away from the fact I need a high GPA. Anyway I researched this and I don't think you can just take biology, chemistry, physics as non degree courses. Which leads me to believe that I need to start from scratch and pursue a second degree perhaps in Biomedicine, Biology, or a BSc in general? Is this recommended or what else should I consider? If I do decide to do a second degree, will my nursing degree be taken into consideration like a cumulative GPA? 2.) MCAT - I don't know how I feel about writing the MCAT without establishing my GPA... thoughts? 3.) In terms of E.C. I am currently not perusing any as i work full time. However, I do have a few volunteering gigs in mind, but the important thing for me is to enjoy it and not see it as extra work to make a medical school application pretty. I want to be honest with myself, after all this is my personal development and I want everything that I do from this point forward to be with passion and integrity. 4.) Nurse Practitioner is another option BUT that is not what I want to do or foresee as being my goal (maybe a plan B if medical school is just impossible all together) 5.) I think I'm young lol. I am 24, sooner rather than later right to make this transition? I may not get into school until my late 20's or well into my early 30's. But someone mentioned that I am going to age regardless so I will be 35 at some point or I could be 35 and an MD. Wow this was so long, thanks to those who are willing to read this and help an aspiring and hopeful physician. If I knew what I know now, I would have done everything the right way, however life is a surprise and I am happy that I have fully recognized my goal and am ready to attack with full devotion, time, and effort. If I forgot to take anything into consideration, please feel free to comment. - Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Ohmigod, you work on a CTU and actually like it? You might never become a physician, but you are truly a saint and I have nothing but respect for you. Especially in July... Ok, seriously I don't think anybody can advise you with specifics without knowing far more about you than is appropriate for a public message board. My one take-home message for you is this (skip the rest of the post if you want, but read the next 20 words) : sit down and think about what you want your life to look like 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now. Going into medicine will be a huge sacrifice for you. The next decade or so of your life will suck. You will take a financial hit. You will give up more-than-is-fair of your time. Depending on what your priorities are outside of medicine (wait...there is life outside of medicine???) you might want to reconsider. Is your partner/spouse supportive? Are you planning on having children, and if so when? Do you own or rent? Are the two of you mobile? I did the same calculus that you need to do. In my circumstances I decided it was worth it. On a "lifetime" basis it might still be worth it, but my current situation is that I've made all of the sacrifice and received none of the pay-off. So be prepared for moments of bitterness to follow... 1) GPA - GPA is king. If you don't have a competitive one, you either need to make a plan to get one or plan to be something other than an MD. Sorry, not my decision, but it is what it is. 2) MCAT - same. Although there are a couple of schools that don't require the MCAT, most of them do. If you don't have a competitive MCAT, you will be very limited in the schools you can apply to. 3) EC - not a problem. A little tweak, a little polish, and a couple of weekends re-writing, and what you've said here is more than enough to satisfy admissions committees. You are a health care professional, but you are dissatisfied with your scope of practice and want to care for your patients at a higher level. Check-boxes checked. 4) NP - from my perspective they are neither fish nor fowl. They seem to want clinical independence...right up until things aren't going according to the algorithm. Then they'll go running for the nearest person with "MD" behind his/her name. And the doc will take into account all of the available information and make a plan. The doc may make the most ludicrously ridiculous plan ever. But the plan will be the integral of the doc's educational training, clinical experience and circumstances and the details specific to the case. And if (s)he is worth his/her salt the doc will stand behind the plan, adjusting it as new information becomes available ("He has no pulse, doctor. Do you want me to start CPR?") and will be at the bedside caring for his/her patient even though the doc hasn't pee'd in the last 20 hours and his pager is alarming again. Because that's what the job requires. And because the buck stops here. The nurse practitioner? Sorry, she's on break... Ok, I'm exaggerating and am probably being too hard on my NP colleagues. But if you want clinical independence, don't go that route. If you want limited scope of practice, lots of breaks, a guaranteed salary and a pension then sure. Heck, when looking at the benefits I sometimes think I should re-train as an NP. It would let me focus on things outside of the hospital in a way that I can't now. I'm not exactly bitter, but I'm in a situation where I can no longer say "Um, I dunno what the problem is...over to you doc..." without concomitant compensation. 5) Lol. I have socks older than you... pb I am an RN of 3 years now. I currently work on a "Clinical Teaching Unit" ...Now that I have health care experience, the urge is now more apparent to me to make a career change 1.) GPA - I need to have a strong GPA... there is no way around this... 2) MCAT... 3) In terms of E.C... 4) Nurse Practitioner is another option BUT that is not what I want to do or foresee as being my goal... 5) I think I'm young lol. I am 24... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I don't have much to add to the previous reply, and while it's not the easiest path to med school, you *ARE* still young and there's time yet. My residency program has usually had one or two RNs every year, so you'd hardly be alone in coming from a nursing background by the time you get to that point. I'd go so far as to say that nursing probably provides one of the better backgrounds for medicine you can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46dr Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'll just chime in for the pre-req parts - I'm not sure where you're from but I'd look into community colleges that have transferable courses. I did my pre-reqs at a small college in BC and got unbelievable instruction compared to my colleagues at the larger, more respected institutions. I also did very, very well in chem/orgo/biology etc (~93%), and while I worked really hard I think the small class sizes helped. It's cheaper, and you don't have to be in a degree program. Even though UBC no longer requires pre-reqs, they gave me the basis to go on and be able to get a decent-ish MCAT (513) with very minimal study time (which is what you might be looking at if you're still working through this). I'm not sure how much value there is in you going out and getting another degree if you can work hard and do well in 50-ish pre-req credits that will give your GPA a significant boost. But that depends on what you're starting with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinhk2 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Thanks, this was insightful. I know or am prepared for the bitterness and hardships that may follow. I consider myself lucky: fairly young, ambitious, single, no mortgage and/or major life commitments... yet. If I don't try, I'll regret it as the years pass by. I will calculate my GPA based on the OMSAS and contact the schools that I feel I can fit the criteria as well as inquire about credible and transferable courses. If I can avoid getting a second degree. I will revisit my options once I get more information and the numbers. Has anyone heard about taking pre req courses at Athabasca. I know that they offer online courses as continuing education and that will allow me to avoid a second degree. I am only taking these courses in order to strengthen my GPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11111111111111111111111111 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 What is your GPA if you don't mind me asking? I'd recommend doing a second undergrad, full course load, and taking pre-reqs AND GPA boosters. ASAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Thanks, this was insightful. I know or am prepared for the bitterness and hardships that may follow. I consider myself lucky: fairly young, ambitious, single, no mortgage and/or major life commitments... yet. If I don't try, I'll regret it as the years pass by. I will calculate my GPA based on the OMSAS and contact the schools that I feel I can fit the criteria as well as inquire about credible and transferable courses. If I can avoid getting a second degree. I will revisit my options once I get more information and the numbers. Has anyone heard about taking pre req courses at Athabasca. I know that they offer online courses as continuing education and that will allow me to avoid a second degree. I am only taking these courses in order to strengthen my GPA. If finances are a concern, I would highly recommend looking into DELTS at Memorial University. I completed some pre-reqs through them, and is was MUCH cheaper than athabasca-something like half the cost. And the support staff and profs were amazing with really fast turnarounds for grades because of the small class sizes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinhk2 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 What is your GPA if you don't mind me asking? I'd recommend doing a second undergrad, full course load, and taking pre-reqs AND GPA boosters. ASAP! So this is my GPA through the years in my BScN: Year 1: 2.70 Year 2: 3.0 Year 3: 3.0 Year 4: 3.7 cGPA: 3.0 Each summer I took one elective course so I didn't count those. So at this point should I: 1.) Take pre requisites as a full course load over the span of 1-2 years to increase my GPA (whether it be through TRU, DELTS at Memorial, or Athabasca, even UW) 2.) Think about pursuing a second degree in honours science or another program while taking necessary pre reqs 3.) Study and write the MCAT first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinhk2 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 If finances are a concern, I would highly recommend looking into DELTS at Memorial University. I completed some pre-reqs through them, and is was MUCH cheaper than athabasca-something like half the cost. And the support staff and profs were amazing with really fast turnarounds for grades because of the small class sizes May I ask which courses you took and did you do them as a full load? Would irt be advisable to do 2 years of full course loads? And how would that be factored into my GPA? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronicconic Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 So this is my GPA through the years in my BScN: Year 1: 2.70 Year 2: 3.0 Year 3: 3.0 Year 4: 3.7 cGPA: 3.0 Each summer I took one elective course so I didn't count those. So at this point should I: 1.) Take pre requisites as a full course load over the span of 1-2 years to increase my GPA (whether it be through TRU, DELTS at Memorial, or Athabasca, even UW) 2.) Think about pursuing a second degree in honours science or another program while taking necessary pre reqs 3.) Study and write the MCAT first Hi there. Just thought I'd share my 2 cents. I admire your dedication to pursue Medicine from Nursing. I'd recommend taking your pre-reqs over a year or two in full course loads. Since you already have a degree and are pursuing a professional program, I see little benefit in completing another degree. Perhaps you could enrol in an Open Studies program where you have the flexibility to pick-and-choose the courses that are (1) relevant for Medicine (pre-reqs) and (2) interest you. While your primary goal should be to raise your cGPA to >3.0, these additional years will also give you a chance to see if you enjoy the study of Medicine. Keep in mind that most schools also drop your lowest GPA under some circumstances, meaning your current cGPA would be closer to 3.23 than 3.00. As for extracurriculars, I am confident that your employment as an RN will count significantly towards this category; therefore, I think it's more important to boost your GPA and to write your MCAT than to spend your time finding ways to volunteer (although it wouldn't hurt your cause either). I have a colleague who is on the same path as you, and I admire her decision to do so greatly. Best of luck in your future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B A T M A N Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Also keep in mind some schools take your most recent 2/3 years, so if you kill the next two years you'll be in good shape to apply without finishing the degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medisforme Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Ohmigod, you work on a CTU and actually like it? You might never become a physician, but you are truly a saint and I have nothing but respect for you. Especially in July... Ok, seriously I don't think anybody can advise you with specifics without knowing far more about you than is appropriate for a public message board. My one take-home message for you is this (skip the rest of the post if you want, but read the next 20 words) : sit down and think about what you want your life to look like 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now. Going into medicine will be a huge sacrifice for you. The next decade or so of your life will suck. You will take a financial hit. You will give up more-than-is-fair of your time. Depending on what your priorities are outside of medicine (wait...there is life outside of medicine???) you might want to reconsider. Is your partner/spouse supportive? Are you planning on having children, and if so when? Do you own or rent? Are the two of you mobile? I think this is an excellent post. I went into medical school after 6 years working as an RN. I am graduating this year and will start residency soon. When people ask if I would do it again, I usually say if I could start medical school earlier in life I would, but if I had to start at 30 again, I would choose to continue working as a nurse and advance my career that way. The debt I have accumulated and the time away from my wife and step-son have been very challenging (even though my wife was supportive of me entering medical school). When you couple this with the fact that no one is guaranteed a residency spot where there family has laid down roots, I just could not justify going through this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I think this is an excellent post. I went into medical school after 6 years working as an RN. I am graduating this year and will start residency soon. When people ask if I would do it again, I usually say if I could start medical school earlier in life I would, but if I had to start at 30 again, I would choose to continue working as a nurse and advance my career that way. The debt I have accumulated and the time away from my wife and step-son have been very challenging (even though my wife was supportive of me entering medical school). When you couple this with the fact that no one is guaranteed a residency spot where there family has laid down roots, I just could not justify going through this again. it is somewhat hit and miss for non-triads like that. It is a bit gamble and a lot of stress/time/work load/unpredictability in terms of placements and schedule etc. Particularly since many triads already have excellent jobs and are well respected in those areas there is a big opportunity cost to going into medicine. The money cost is an issue - even when you do the math. Plus the job of being a doctor is really hard to understand no matter how close you work with them prior to becoming one (same the other way as well - how many doctors really understand what a nurse's job is? and doctors work with nurses all the time). Plus it is always a moving target - the field changes all the time. It is a little hard on this forum to also see the far end of this - few non-traids to doctors report back what things are like say 3 years into actually being a doctor. Ha, not a surprise there - premed forum, and say someone like me who started posting one year prior to getting into medical school and now 8 years later still has at least 3 more years to go - and likely 4-5. Add some time to actually settle and well we will be waiting awhile before I really comment on what it is like on the other side. you are young - 24 is young. people have skewed thoughts on age sometimes I think. Particular when doctors often work in some form or other well in to their 60s and beyond. I think often one of the reasons people try this is simple imaging looking back and asking a lot of what if questions. Did really go all the way I could? Will I really be happy with my current job my entire life? Even if the money etc works out dead even in the end those questions will remain. "to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield" and all that as a side note you can enroll as a non declared major and just take classes. Some schools even let you build your own program. It may be wise to enroll in an actual degree but don't think you are restricted that way. Definitely you are correct about the "pre-reqs" - you may need to take some classes in particular subjects but the number is usually relatively small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 It is a little hard on this forum to also see the far end of this - few non-traids to doctors report back what things are like say 3 years into actually being a doctor. Ha, not a surprise there - premed forum, and say someone like me who started posting one year prior to getting into medical school and now 8 years later still has at least 3 more years to go - and likely 4-5. Add some time to actually settle and well we will be waiting awhile before I really comment on what it is like on the other side. A corollary would be to think back on how strenuous the earlier hoops were - juggling GPA, ECs, MCAT, etc. Do you have a vague memory that it was hard work, but reflect primarily on what you learned and how you grew -- or is the strain still vivid in your memory whenever you think about it? This may be the same way you'll view medical school years down the road. Probably different for different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 A corollary would be to think back on how strenuous the earlier hoops were - juggling GPA, ECs, MCAT, etc. Do you have a vague memory that it was hard work, but reflect primarily on what you learned and how you grew -- or is the strain still vivid in your memory whenever you think about it? This may be the same way you'll view medical school years down the road. Probably different for different people. which is exactly why I think a lot of people later on seem to underestimate or dismiss the difficulty of prior steps. Which isn't at all logical ha. everyone is different, remembers this differently, has different areas where they were having trouble etc. Ideally we would have a pool of people through the process reporting back - enough to get a variety of perspectives no matter how imperfect of course that would be. Right now we don't ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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