Mac Med Advice

[himym123]

Hi everyone, I'm currently deciding between a few Ontario med schools, and could really use some advice.

 

My first concern with McMaster's program is the 3-year timeline. I know this is a topic that comes up frequently on PM101, and believe me I've read pretty much everything there is to read on the issue. I am still, however, a little hesitant about it. This is predominantly because I have absolutely no idea what field I want to pursue within medicine - in fact, I'm not even sure whether I prefer medicine or surgery. My worry is that the shorter program may not provide enough time to: 1) pick a specialty, and - more importantly - 2) if the specialty happens to be a competitive one, then to build up a CV that will allow me to pursue it. I know this is still a long way away for someone who hasn't even started yet, but I really feel like it should be a consideration for someone in my position.

 

My other concern with Mac Med is the relative number of opportunities available. Keep in mind that I graduated from Western, so I have absolutely no clue what McMaster's clinical environment is like. I have heard, however, that Mac's opportunities - while plentiful - do not match those of larger universities like Toronto. So my questions are: 1) How true is this? 2) How much does this really matter? and 3) Has anyone found this to be a limiting factor at Mac?

 

Most of the above concerns are grounded in rumours and hearsay, so I really appreciate any input that students/applicants may be able to provide. Thank you very much!

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

I'd say out of the Ontario schools Mac probably has the second best patient population (under Toronto) and it's clinical research opportunities are the best (I'm a Mac undergrad so there might be some bias here). Toronto's research tends to be more basic science-focused.

[PurpleS]

1) Your concerns about less time to pick a specialty are very valid! Keep in mind that our curriculum allows for a lot of free time for students to explore what they're interested in. We have 12 hours of mandatory class supplemented by lectures and other optional classes. Most students (I would say 99%) have at least 1 full day off per week (some can have 2 - 3!) to explore different specialties. We have horizontal elective experiences ranging from surgery, emerg, labour and delivery, therapeutic abortion, GI clinic, family medicine, and the list goes on and on.

 

2) We have plenty of clinical opportunities ranging from rural to more urban practice centers. What most people don't realize is that it's harder to practice your clinical skills and get more patient-opportunities in bigger cities due to trainees higher up than you on the totem pole (residents, fellows, etc.). McMaster has rural placements for you to practice suturing, giving lumbar punctures, intubations, inserting catheters, etc. that you may not get in a larger city simply because there are so many residents. On the other hand, we also have large urban practices that allow you to observe interesting pathophysiology and cases. I personally have not found this aspect of Mac Med to be a limiting factor.

 

3) Want to do research and more electives to build your CV for that competitive specialty? Take an enrichment year! You don't pay tuition and you can spend 40% of your year doing electives at other schools while building that CV with research experience. These don't count towards your mandatory number of electives for graduation, but you can put them on your carms application and you get definitely ask these preceptors for reference letters. You graduate in 4 years like other schools and suddenly you have at least 15 extra weeks of clinical experience that will allow you to shine during clerkship.

 

4) Career counsellors and student advisers: All students are assigned to a student adviser at the beginning of the year. Each student adviser has a max of 6 students and they help with elective planning, and any other issues you'd like to discuss. Career counsellors at Mac are also great and they help you with navigating your clerkship and carms strategy to ensure you match to your choice specialty and location.

 

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me

[Bambi]

I did not attend an Ontario medical school but if I were you, I would be inclined to select Mac. Good luck with your choice and in med school.

[Edict]

Hi everyone, I'm currently deciding between a few Ontario med schools, and could really use some advice.

 

My first concern with McMaster's program is the 3-year timeline. I know this is a topic that comes up frequently on PM101, and believe me I've read pretty much everything there is to read on the issue. I am still, however, a little hesitant about it. This is predominantly because I have absolutely no idea what field I want to pursue within medicine - in fact, I'm not even sure whether I prefer medicine or surgery. My worry is that the shorter program may not provide enough time to: 1) pick a specialty, and - more importantly - 2) if the specialty happens to be a competitive one, then to build up a CV that will allow me to pursue it. I know this is still a long way away for someone who hasn't even started yet, but I really feel like it should be a consideration for someone in my position.

 

My other concern with Mac Med is the relative number of opportunities available. Keep in mind that I graduated from Western, so I have absolutely no clue what McMaster's clinical environment is like. I have heard, however, that Mac's opportunities - while plentiful - do not match those of larger universities like Toronto. So my questions are: 1) How true is this? 2) How much does this really matter? and 3) Has anyone found this to be a limiting factor at Mac?

 

Most of the above concerns are grounded in rumours and hearsay, so I really appreciate any input that students/applicants may be able to provide. Thank you very much!

 

The 3 year timeline can be an issue, from what I know if you want a competitive specialty its best to start early. However, Mac students consistently do match to competitive specialties, so I'm not sure if it really is that big of an issue. With that being said you can always take an enrichment year (which gives you an extra 20 weeks of electives and half a year of research), and for most Mac students they get the same amount of pre-CaRMS electives or more as compared to other schools, the streams range from 10-14 weeks of pre-CaRMS and almost everyone gets 2 weeks of post-CaRMS electives that happen before interviews (which still help and matter). At the end of the day you can always transfer specialties and plenty of people do it while in residency. 

 

I would say if you go to Mac and you want something competitive and want your pick of location its best to start within a few months of getting in, that way if you decide against it you can always just stop doing it. Personally, I still haven't decided between medicine and surgery and that is perfectly fine, we get post-MF4 electives in the summer after our 1st year, 7 weeks of clerkship electives that most people choose to use to decide their specialties. It does require you to be proactive, but the reward is pretty big, graduating a full year early means you save tuition, make extra income and crucially, it allows you to do an extra fellowship compared to your colleagues at other schools which makes you more competitive for jobs and also better at what you do. 

 

Mac's opportunities are insanely plentiful, I don't know where you heard that but actually McMaster has a patient base the same size as Western and Ottawa (around 2.3 million) and our catchment area is pretty large including even Brampton. McMaster itself conducts over 230 million in medical research a year so research is actually more plentiful than any other school in Ontario except Toronto. McMaster does tend to focus more on clinical research than Toronto does. Mac has several big name researchers in Canada and almost every Mac Med has heard of them, which is unique because people like Gordon Guyatt actually lecture to students and take on students for projects. We have some big name basic science/clinical research profs like Sheila Singh in Neurosurg, Mohit Bhandhari in Orthopedics, Whitlock in Cardiac Surg, Gordon Guyatt, in clin epi, PJ Devereaux and Salim Yusuf in Cardiology etc. and that is just a few of many and they all take students, i know students working with almost every one of the people I just listed. With that being said, many schools have great research profs, it just takes some initiative to look for opportunities, every school does have its own research strengths, e.g. Ottawa Heart Institute, PHRI at Mac etc. 

 

On the more practical clinical side, I've never had problems booking horizontals or getting clinical experience. It does require to be proactive though, McMaster definitely does not spoon feed you, it gives you the freedom to do whatever, but that also can mean if you don't have direction and want someone to tell you whats available you might feel a bit lost at Mac. Also, it really doesn't matter unless you end up in a very specialized specialty and even then you will be able to match without those opportunities. 

[Organomegaly]

 

It does require to be proactive though, McMaster definitely does not spoon feed you, it gives you the freedom to do whatever, but that also can mean if you don't have direction and want someone to tell you whats available you might feel a bit lost at Mac. 

 

 

Want to echo this; I struggled with the curriculum in MF1 because so much of our education is based on how one utilizes available resources. Mac gives you no shortage of them. Once I involved myself in research, found great physician mentors through horizontal electives and extended myself through extracurricular interest groups and local opportunities, school almost felt like a creative success rather than a monotonous experience that was pre-formed for me. I think it is more challenging in the sense that you almost have to create your education, but also more rewarding when you do see the results in your tutorial performance, PPI scores and ability to apply knowledge effectively on horizontals. 

 

And by "create" I don't really mean de-novo. Mac does give you 2 half-day of lectures which serve as scaffolding for the problems you discuss in the tutorial. They also provide some reference sources which may or may not be useful to you. And of course, you do receive support through your PBL leaders and clinical skills preceptors. You will, however, be required to fill in the pieces on your own to succeed in tutorial and meet your learning goals based on what discipline of medicine you aim for.