Do you think there is a decrease in applications for 2018?

[OTdokie]

Obviously, one can't definitively say, but based on the activity around this board it doesn't seem to be as active as in past years. It sure would be nice if we were applying in an off-year! 

[Rehab4Life]

That’d be great haha, or maybe just less people using this forum. 

[OTdokie]

6 hours ago, Rehab4Life said:

That’d be great haha, or maybe just less people using this forum. 

Probably, but one can always hope, haha. 

[Miria]

Doubtful. Given the trends, it seems that there are more applicants every year. https://www.ouac.on.ca/statistics/orpas-application-statistics/ Alternatively, it could also be argued that the higher the competition, the more qualified the applicants are in each cycle.

[msshark]

9 minutes ago, Miria said:

Doubtful. Given the trends, it seems that there are more applicants every year. https://www.ouac.on.ca/statistics/orpas-application-statistics/ Alternatively, it could also be argued that the higher the competition, the more qualified the applicants are in each cycle.

Except for the most recent statistic, 2016 had less applicants for every school compared to 2015. 

[Miria]

True! I guess I was referring to general trends (aka the last 10 years). But, when I inquired about Queen's and U of T for my application, they told me that numbers for 2017 went significantly up. So, in general, I'd say there's no reason to expect that there would be a significant drop, but each year is a case by case basis.

[MWUQ]

At UofT's OT/PT Info Session, the person doing the presentation said there were a lot more PT students and slightly less OT students present compared to the year before.

Obviously can't really base the applicant pool off of that, but like you said, we can always hope! 

[BecomingAnOT]

Doesn't it say on ORPAS how many people have applied? 

[OTdokie]

4 minutes ago, BecomingAnOT said:

Doesn't it say on ORPAS how many people have applied? 

Not that I've noticed, but that would be great information to know! 

[BecomingAnOT]

If you click on info and then you click program requirements overview, it gives you numbers of how many applicants in 2017 and how many positions in 2018.

[Rehab4Life]

There were a lot of applicants in 2017 if I recall correctly. Health care professions are becoming more popular. OT GPA cutoffs have been climbing closer to PT each year! 

 

@Miria higher GPA doesn’t = more qualified, that’s the problem with Ontario schools in my opinion. Too much emphasis on grades, not enough on experience/passion, no interviews, etc. 

[Miria]

@Rehab4LifeHi! I agree that GPA isn't the only deciding factor to see if someone is more qualified and I didn't imply that it should be. However, I do think that GPA plays a significant role when considering whether someone has the aptitude to succeed in a rigorous academic program and should be one of many factors that admission committees look at. An all-rounded strong application with a high GPA & extra-curricular experience suggests someone has the qualities to take on an intensive program and thrive under pressure. Based on personal opinion, my favorite aspect of the application is actually McMaster's MMI, as it seems to be a fairly standardized and problem-based approach that takes into account both intellectual and emotional maturity.  

Nevertheless, I am quite excited to see whether I'll get accepted this year. If not, I'll just work on making myself a better candidate.

[Rehab4Life]

19 hours ago, Miria said:

@Rehab4LifeHi! I agree that GPA isn't the only deciding factor to see if someone is more qualified and I didn't imply that it should be. However, I do think that GPA plays a significant role when considering whether someone has the aptitude to succeed in a rigorous academic program and should be one of many factors that admission committees look at. An all-rounded strong application with a high GPA & extra-curricular experience suggests someone has the qualities to take on an intensive program and thrive under pressure. Based on personal opinion, my favorite aspect of the application is actually McMaster's MMI, as it seems to be a fairly standardized and problem-based approach that takes into account both intellectual and emotional maturity.  

Nevertheless, I am quite excited to see whether I'll get accepted this year. If not, I'll just work on making myself a better candidate.

Yes, GPA is important when joining a rigorous program, but where is the line? It’s not going to determine post-grad success, bc like you said it’s one of many factors, yet the massive emphasis is on GPA. In my opinion, even a 3.0+ is enough to be “well equippped” to complete an MSc PT program, in combination with other skills. I think it’d be better if schools incorporated interviews (not the MMIs) and lower GPA cut-offs, but that’s just my opinion. I’d rather have someone with great experience, great interpersonal skills, 3.5 GPA and can tell is super passionate, rather than someone with 3.9, not sociable, less experience and passion. Interviews can tell a lot about a person and their intentions. A lot of physios I’ve worked with in the past have said that people not at the top of their PT class (in terms of grades) became the most successful PTs, which I’ve always found interesting. 

[Miria]

There's also plenty of people with 3.9s and really passionate & great experience & interpersonal skills.  It's not one or the other, and that's the point of having a holistic method of looking at someone's qualifications. Same thing can be said about interviews looking at only one aspect- you can be a really good presenter, but the MMIs are better imo because it's not just about your presentation skills & takes a more standardized approach. Nevertheless, I look forward to this year's selections & the competition. The more people, the more qualified candidates they have, and the more they have to really consider every aspect.

[Rehab4Life]

1 minute ago, Miria said:

There's also plenty of people with 3.9s and really passionate & great experience & interpersonal skills.  It's not one or the other, and that's the point of having a holistic method of looking at someone's qualifications. Same thing can be said about interviews looking at only one aspect- you can be a really good presenter, but the MMIs are better imo because it's not just about your presentation skills & takes a more standardized approach. Nevertheless, I look forward to this year's selections & the competition. The more people, the more qualified candidates they have, and the more they have to really consider every aspect.

Yeah, I never said there weren’t passionate people with high GPAs. But that’s the point, Canadian schools don’t have a holistic approach to admission. They literally will not view your application or offer an interview if you miss the GPA cut-off, even by .01 GPA (which as we all know is really high). PT programs across the globe are a lot more holistic in comparison. And many programs consider the applicant as a whole rather than meeting a strict GPA cut off (mba comes to mind). 

 

Anyway, good luck with your applications! 

[OTdokie]

36 minutes ago, Rehab4Life said:

Yeah, I never said there weren’t passionate people with high GPAs. But that’s the point, Canadian schools don’t have a holistic approach to admission. They literally will not view your application or offer an interview if you miss the GPA cut-off, even by .01 GPA (which as we all know is really high). PT programs across the globe are a lot more holistic in comparison. And many programs consider the applicant as a whole rather than meeting a strict GPA cut off (mba comes to mind). 

 

Anyway, good luck with your applications! 

This is what I'm currently worried about. I've applied to Queen's for OT and I have a 3.28 cGPA according to ORPAS. In 2016 the cut-off was a 3.2 and in 2017 it went up to a 3.3. The thought that I could not meet the cut-off by 0.02 is killer. I'm confident in the rest of my application, but none of it gets even read unless I meet the cut-off. It's frustrating because if I was applying two years ago, it would've been fine. Is my GPA as impressive as a 3.9? Absolutely not. However, I feel like there are so many other things that make my application worth looking at. 

[Rehab4Life]

39 minutes ago, mccannjx01 said:

This is what I'm currently worried about. I've applied to Queen's for OT and I have a 3.28 cGPA according to ORPAS. In 2016 the cut-off was a 3.2 and in 2017 it went up to a 3.3. The thought that I could not meet the cut-off by 0.02 is killer. I'm confident in the rest of my application, but none of it gets even read unless I meet the cut-off. It's frustrating because if I was applying two years ago, it would've been fine. Is my GPA as impressive as a 3.9? Absolutely not. However, I feel like there are so many other things that make my application worth looking at. 

Yeah, you gotta keep up with the GPA cut-off that usually creeps up a bit every year! That was always my situation tbh; felt I had a good application if it got reviewed haha. 2 years ago I missed the cut-off at Queen’s by 0.01, last year I was waitlisted.. I’m hoping this year works out. If not I’ll be going to the UK, don’t want to waste anymore time. 

[NorthernOntarioGal]

On 2/8/2018 at 8:50 PM, Rehab4Life said:

 

@Miria higher GPA doesn’t = more qualified, that’s the problem with Ontario schools in my opinion. Too much emphasis on grades, not enough on experience/passion, no interviews, etc. 

This 1000 times over. There needs to be a cap on grades, this is getting ridiculous. Especially when there's no rules around what undergrad you need to apply, so you can just take bird courses to get 90s. That's why I have a lot of respect for Queens.

Edit: I also want to underline what you said about post-grad success... I have been working as a clinician for the past 6 months. I have gained so much knowledge in such a short amount of time, and it has given me a much greater understanding and respect for the PT profession (though I have not been working in the rehab field) and the only school that will truly acknowledge this is Queens.

I might appear a sore loser but I don't think kids that are good at memorizing and regurgitating on school tests will necessarily make the best PTs. Compassionate people that are able to build strong relationships, good at working as a team, have strong communication skills... these aren't cheesy terms that are in the competencies for fun.

[Monikaz]

I agree with @NorthernOntarioGal

There needs to be a cap on GPA. 

For example, I am coming from engineering. You try to get an A in Electricity and Magnetism where the class average going into the final was ~30%. They scaled us into the 50's in the end so the majority of the class didn't fail. How can that compete with some artsy, fartsy course with a 90% average? I agree that grades matter but an 80% in most engineering courses is a really good grade and this needs to be factored in. 

I understand from the school's point of view, they get so many applications and need to be able to filter through them. However, coming from a discipline that has a lot of 'brainiacs', grades do not represent social skills. I don't know what the answer is. It would be very difficult to rate and scale grades based on what degree they are from.

As a result, my personal PT was talking about mentoring many very smart but not practical or hands-on PT's to be.

At this rate, you will need high 90's to get into PT school or Med school in the near future. 

[NorthernOntarioGal]

@Monikaz I completely agree! Getting 80s in engineering is fantastic! The grade-based model also doesn't account for differences between profs... some profs just don't believe in giving 90s. Last year I had to work my ass off in a first year english class to get an A. I put in more work in that class than my other 3 classes combined. I also took bird courses where I got an A+ and did very little work.

I look at other professional grad programs that actually require you to have experience in the field to be accepted (optometry, speech language pathology). This is to weed out people with 90 averages that have no experience in the field. For the most part people getting accepted into PT/OT do have experience, but perhaps this should be weighed more heavily? Like describing what you learned from the experiences? 

This reminds me of my situation at work. I have many volunteers that help out with my program, some of them individuals I have volunteered alongside with before. Some of them are amazing, fantastic people that care about the patients and really get what our program is about. I adore these people. Some of them have very poor attendance, come to socialize, aren't really committed. All the volunteers get to put this on their resume/application. Makes me soooo frustrated to think about.

Sorry this post got a little ranty! I just think our current system is turning away people that would make great practitioners.

Edit: I just realized that Mac changed their process. I had no idea and now I feel like a fool for not applying. Either way, glad to see some change happening!

[Rehab4Life]

1 hour ago, NorthernOntarioGal said:

@Monikaz I completely agree! Getting 80s in engineering is fantastic! The grade-based model also doesn't account for differences between profs... some profs just don't believe in giving 90s. Last year I had to work my ass off in a first year english class to get an A. I put in more work in that class than my other 3 classes combined. I also took bird courses where I got an A+ and did very little work.

I look at other professional grad programs that actually require you to have experience in the field to be accepted (optometry, speech language pathology). This is to weed out people with 90 averages that have no experience in the field. For the most part people getting accepted into PT/OT do have experience, but perhaps this should be weighed more heavily? Like describing what you learned from the experiences? 

This reminds me of my situation at work. I have many volunteers that help out with my program, some of them individuals I have volunteered alongside with before. Some of them are amazing, fantastic people that care about the patients and really get what our program is about. I adore these people. Some of them have very poor attendance, come to socialize, aren't really committed. All the volunteers get to put this on their resume/application. Makes me soooo frustrated to think about.

Sorry this post got a little ranty! I just think our current system is turning away people that would make great practitioners.

Edit: I just realized that Mac changed their process. I had no idea and now I feel like a fool for not applying. Either way, glad to see some change happening!

I feel the same about Mac lol... Didn't notice until people said it in the other thread! Would've had to take a stats course to get 77%+ though. Would have done it online or something if I knew!

[NorthernOntarioGal]

@Rehab4Life they're also using this 3rd party platform though. So this will be a serious learning experiment for the school and for all the applicants. I appreciate that it advertises itself as being "holistic," but if it's not tailored to rehabilitation, what is its validity? Furthermore I would estimate that there are 600-900 people doing this interview, so now the chances of getting in have significantly lowered. Getting in has become a lottery system based off this program's algorithm. I won't speak ill of it until we see how it goes for everyone, but I'm not too devastated I didn't apply. Also, I feel unsure about PBL lol.

I realized that this should in theory increase our chances of getting into Queens since people with "lower" GPAs should also have a chance of getting into Mac now though!

[Rehab4Life]

2 hours ago, NorthernOntarioGal said:

@Rehab4Life they're also using this 3rd party platform though. So this will be a serious learning experiment for the school and for all the applicants. I appreciate that it advertises itself as being "holistic," but if it's not tailored to rehabilitation, what is its validity? Furthermore I would estimate that there are 600-900 people doing this interview, so now the chances of getting in have significantly lowered. Getting in has become a lottery system based off this program's algorithm. I won't speak ill of it until we see how it goes for everyone, but I'm not too devastated I didn't apply. Also, I feel unsure about PBL lol.

I realized that this should in theory increase our chances of getting into Queens since people with "lower" GPAs should also have a chance of getting into Mac now though!

I see what you’re saying and ya 600-900 interviews would be a lot, but I still like the idea because it’s a good chance to show your personality and talk about experiences. So if someone has a lower GPA but has a great personality, a lot of experience in the field and a great interview, their application will be more competitive theoretically. I’m unsure about PBL too, but if you look at international schools (ie UK and Australia), many mention PBL and “self-directed learning” in their curriculum. I feel that these alternative learning styles are more common outside of North America (for grad programs at least).. So I’m trying to mentally prepare for anything haha, in case I have to go to the UK in Sept. 

 

3.3 won’t really impact Queen’s applications though since it’s below the cut off.  

[MWUQ]

1 hour ago, Rehab4Life said:

3.3 won’t really impact Queen’s applications though since it’s below the cut off.  

Isn't the cutoff 3.2 or 3.3 for Queen's?

[Rehab4Life]

1 hour ago, MWUQ said:

Isn't the cutoff 3.2 or 3.3 for Queen's?

sGPA cut-off last year was 3.68 and cGPA about 3.0