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Opening the flood gates: Foreign dentists can challenge the boards in 2011

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Of course only a few found jobs in Toronto because Toronto is completely saturated with dentists. Most dentists I know can only get part-time positions and they have to work at a few different offices. But who would want to work in Toronto anyways??? There are so many other great places to work!

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what about the baby boomers retiring soon? that should help a bit. a bunch of the dentists i used to golf with are always asking me how much longer i have left at NYU so i can come back and take over their practises for them :)

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Before the year 2000 foreign trained dentists had the opportunity to take these kinds of exams and qualify to work in Canada, but I can assure you that the passing rate is very low. Just look up older stats from the 90s and see how many FTD actually got their licence this way...sure wasn't a 30-40% increase in FTD! wow! come on people!

 

"In 2001, there were 62 dentists per 100,000 population in Canada. The number of

dentists per 100,000 population increased by 23% from 1991 to 2001. The ratios for

this occupational group increased from 50 dentists per 100,000 population in 1991, to

56 and 62 in 1996 and 2001, respectively."

 

According to CIHI (Canadian Institute Health Information) published in 2007: Distribution and Internal Migration of

Canada’s Dentist Workforce.

 

I believe the FTD policy was in effect during the 1990s and discontinued in 2000. Maybe they do this every 10 years? so in 2020, they'll stop the policy and then in 2030 they'll continue!

 

I guess we can expect about 20% increase of dentists in the next ten years with the new FTD policy & Australian one way street agreement.

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I believe the ratio for physicians to population is about 101 per 100,000 in 2008 and might have crept to 103 by 2010 according to CIHI (These are family physicians and not specialists). But we all know there is a "shortage" of physicians and a HUGE demand for them. There are far more spots in medicine than dentistry, and if the ratio for dentists is at 62 per 100,000 in 2001, I can assume we will have trouble looking for jobs. I guess it'll force many of us to really consider rural practice for the rest of our lives. i'm a city person. These policies will not affect the current ones but will affect us in 4 years. In fact, the current dentists/policymakers don't really care because they already raked in the money in the market when it was ripe and about to retire and could care less about the new generation.

 

With the supply of dentists going up, the push for more scope of practice among denturist and dental hygienists etc we will have to expect that the avg salary/pay will have to go down, we will have to take a pay cut that's all. It should still be fine and live comfortably, but makes you wonder if pursuing and paying the ever increasing tuition is worth it anymore.

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why would they do that? There's already huge saturation in engineering and most other professional fields. Medicine is the only one that needs it.

 

remember that the govt is not a dental school or board...the aim for them is to successfully bring down unemployment...at the end for the govt, that is where the numbers matter...also i wonder despite the strong lobby group that we have, how they let this go through

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dentistry is a set-up-a-shop type of business, it does create employment, when one dentist opens a practice, there are a number more employed, (assistants, technicians, e.t.c)...im sure there are a number of foreign trained/immigrant dentists also who will now be passing these exams to begin practicing...

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well from the government perspective, allowing foreign trained dentists have equivalent credentials as canadians will make them happy ( a Plus for the government, especially during elections. It will free up whatever job they had (tim hortons, cab, etc). These jobs will go to the general public and therefore lower unemployment rate.

 

This is just an example: At constant rate of demand for seeing a dentist & constant supply of dentists in canada, suppose the avg salary of a dentist is 150,000/year. With FTD policies changed etc, more dentists enter the market and compete each other for patients. If supply of dentists go up, then the avg salary of a dentist will go down. If it goes down to 125,000/year, its not so bad. I'm sure dentists out there will cry foul as they are losing income, but the government doesn't care. Why should they? They probably think dentists are being greedy and if they can just distribute the wealth (I think dentistry is a 9 billion dollar market) among more dentists, it would make the country a better place. From their point of view, it works in their favour, more people being employed and distributing the wealth more evenly. Another point is, if they pump more dentists into the market, it'll force ppl to consider working in remote areas permanently as jobs are hard to find.

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remember that the govt is not a dental school or board...the aim for them is to successfully bring down unemployment...at the end for the govt, that is where the numbers matter...also i wonder despite the strong lobby group that we have, how they let this go through

 

Dentists have a strong lobby group for oral health. There is no lobbying for the sake of dentists. The CDA tried to hide this exam process for as long as possible from their members.

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hi

does anyone know what steps/ procedures we need to take to start work as a dentist in Canada if we are coming from outside Canada/ US? e.g. do we need to take any IELTS exam or any exam at all or ? or how much will be exam fees if there are any? do we have to finish any internship in Bangladesh and lots of other things?

 

I am new in Canada and just started to explore the web for info and found this great forum for dentists......

 

many thanks in advance

 

Regards

Dr Nusrat

:)

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Wow seems that people are really negative about this! I will remind that a long time ago UoT used to take in 120 students..not it is in the 60s so half! Also the average age of dentists is 46 and in many areas the amount of expected retirement will far exceed the number of dentists graduating. I think this is why the policy was set in place...to meet the huge gap that will be surfacing soon! Enjoy what you re doing and don't stress! We ll be fine!

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Wow seems that people are really negative about this! I will remind that a long time ago UoT used to take in 120 students..not it is in the 60s so half! Also the average age of dentists is 46 and in many areas the amount of expected retirement will far exceed the number of dentists graduating. I think this is why the policy was set in place...to meet the huge gap that will be surfacing soon! Enjoy what you re doing and don't stress! We ll be fine!

 

Well, not to split hairs, but UofT graduates ~95 per year.

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Originally Posted by CDent2010

Look at this guy, he can't even speak English properly and he wants to come to Canada to be a Dentist? I thought Dentists were supposed to be highly trained professionals who can write, speak and articulate immaculately.

 

If we have a shortage problem, then why instead of letting in all of these FTD (we don't have no idea how, or how well these people were actually trained - have to take an exam you say? so what people cheat on exams all the time) we (dental schools) accept more canadian bred students into dental schools. Even if they lower the bar just a little, there are still hundreds more who are more than qualified each year.

 

And all of you FTDs, why do you want to come here so bad? Would you like it if you worked all your life to get into profession A which has really high standards in your country and is extremely competitive, and then all of a sudden foreign trained strangers trained in profession A flooded your market and took away your jobs? I don't think so. Don't be a hypocrite.

 

I'm sure most of you agree that the shortage thing is a problem that can easily be solved by other means (ie: letting in more canadian bred students in canadian dental schools), and that something else is going on here (ie: corruption). Unbelievable.

 

Is that what you would have said in your CDA interview if asked about this issue? Wouldn't you talk about how Canada is a multicultural country and how there is probably a huge Arabic speaking population that this dentist could serve without being perfectly fluent in English? Doesn't that make you a hypocrit as well?

 

Also, I kind of like that there is not as much a shortage of dentists than there is for physicians. It's one of the reasons why I'm choosing dentistry. If I was a family physician, I would feel the obligation to work harder and take on more patients and do more for them. As a dentist, I can have peace of mind as I enjoy my life and spend time with family if there are other dentists to share the workload.

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I wish there was more transparency and more information about this whole thing.

 

- Why are they doing this?

- Are they going to stop this anytime soon?

- What is their target # of dentists?

- etc..

 

I am extremely confused with no stats or no objective data to see and judge for myself. Relying solely on people's speculations or anecdotes is not very helping.

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I wish there was more transparency and more information about this whole thing.

 

- Why are they doing this?

- Are they going to stop this anytime soon?

- What is their target # of dentists?

- etc..

 

I am extremely confused with no stats or no objective data to see and judge for myself. Relying solely on people's speculations or anecdotes is not very helping.

 

ure right...im surprised by the lack of concern/blind eye treatment the dental association is giving to such an important issue...this is one that will impact all dentists...there need to be better statistics/reporting...and the thing is, its not hard to monitor these issues...the medical association does it, why cant we.

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WOW! I can't believe you people are really judging foreign trained dentists over a few racist sentences in a public forum! Did you know that Canada has only 200 pediatric dentists for all the population and the waiting time for a referral for check up ONLY is a couple of weeks at best? I could think of a case of early childhood caries in a medically compromised young patient who needs to be seen by a specialist asap!!!Does it ever happen to you to imagine that there are other countries in the world with dental schools that are as good as North America's schools plus the students have the chance of seeing and treating more patients than you? We are all humans on ONE globe after all and we medical professionals need to understand and promote this more than anyone else!!!

I can only call all these a helpless selfish cry for more money!!!! Shame!!!!

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WOW! I can't believe you people are really judging foreign trained dentists over a few racist sentences in a public forum! Did you know that Canada has only 200 pediatric dentists for all the population and the waiting time for a referral for check up ONLY is a couple of weeks at best? I could think of a case of early childhood caries in a medically compromised young patient who needs to be seen by a specialist asap!!!Does it ever happen to you to imagine that there are other countries in the world with dental schools that are as good as North America's schools plus the students have the chance of seeing and treating more patients than you? We are all humans on ONE globe after all and we medical professionals need to understand and promote this more than anyone else!!!

I can only call all these a helpless selfish cry for more money!!!! Shame!!!!

 

To be fair, most of the world does not have education that matches the standards of North American education..

This is of course talking about the post-secondary/professional schools.

Why give them a benefit of the doubt on OUR citizen's healthcare?

 

And we don't need more dentists. We need more dentists at rural areas. Foreign immigrant dentists are no less likely to settle in rural areas than Canadian-trained.

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Humans need eachother no matter what citizenship they carry! I totally agree there should be a very strong evaluation system for foreign trained dentists but this doesn't mean they did not have a good training system and definitely doesn't make them anything less than Canadian citizens... I suppose we are not all the so called First Nation talking here... So immigrant some years back and immigrants now...huh? If it's only the concern of the quality of the healthcare system better professionally stay on that matter rather than humilating the language and culture of others!!!!

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Humans need eachother no matter what citizenship they carry! I totally agree there should be a very strong evaluation system for foreign trained dentists but this doesn't mean they did not have a good training system and definitely doesn't make them anything less than Canadian citizens... I suppose we are not all the so called First Nation talking here... So immigrant some years back and immigrants now...huh? If it's only the concern of the quality of the healthcare system better professionally stay on that matter rather than humilating the language and culture of others!!!!

 

You're overreacting. This is not an issue of other countries or education systems having a lower standard of quality (though this is not an excusable possibility). The issue is that the country, public and government as a whole would benefit more, both socially and economically, from increasing funding for home-grown, domestic students to become dentists, and to encourage them to practice in underserved areas, rather than attempting to save money in the short-term by allowing foreign dentists to become licensed in Canada. Even if we ignore the fact that nearly all of these foreign dentists are going to want to settle in urban centres where no more dentists are really needed, it is only a short-term economic gain that in reality is not as beneficial as simply strengthening our healthcare base at home with domestic dentists doing the work. It has nothing to do with foreign dentists' competencies or their capacity to do good work, but rather simply that allowing them to enter the country and practice if only to avoid expanding existing education programmes is short-sighted and ill-advised. It's simply not a good idea. There is no shortage of dentists, but rather a skewed distribution of them, and foreign dentists are only likely to exacerbate this situation.

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Humans need eachother no matter what citizenship they carry! I totally agree there should be a very strong evaluation system for foreign trained dentists but this doesn't mean they did not have a good training system and definitely doesn't make them anything less than Canadian citizens... I suppose we are not all the so called First Nation talking here... So immigrant some years back and immigrants now...huh? If it's only the concern of the quality of the healthcare system better professionally stay on that matter rather than humilating the language and culture of others!!!!

 

An immigrant today, imposes a cost that is way higher than one 50 or 100 years ago. Yes we are a country of immigrants, but times change, today we have more social programs

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/05/17/immigrants-cost-23b-a-year-fraser-institute-report/

While highly skilled and trained immigrants are more desirable, cleanup makes a good argument regarding dentists. The best way to solve the problem is to replicate SWOMEN or what NOSM has done and favor those from rural areas.

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actually to be honest, we really dont need to make increments to either the foreign entrants or seats at our own schools. if we continue at the same number of students each year coming into dental schools, we'll have more than sufficient number to fulfill the demand..canada already has a much higher dentist to population ratio than that which can be classified as a shortage...the only real 2 things that need to be fixed, as far as access to care is concerned, are to fix the maldistribution problem and make policies that enable better access for disabled population groups.

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I am a dentist in Australia who graduated this year in 2012 from Sydney. There are no jobs here in Australia because of a massive supply of dentist due to a huge increase in the number of dental students in the last decade.

 

Thankfully, Canada now recognizes Australia dental degree so now I can go and steal jobs from Canadian dental students. This is great!

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