Queens or UofT MAM

[dantheman24]

Hey everyone!

I'm new to these forums and essentially the title says it all. UofT has been my dream school for a while and I guess I always imagined that it would be downtown, but nonetheless, the Mississauga campus is still part of UofT. I had never given much thought to Queen's until I visited Kingston and really like the close-knit/community aspect of not only the class but also the community. I understand some of the pros and cons to each school such as match rate etc. But I was wondering if current med students from the respective schools can offer insight into some of my concerns. 

1. The curriculum. I've heard Queen's is very lecture based and not as much case-based learning in smaller groups. If someone could clarify this that would be great!

2. The research/shadowing opportunities in Kingston. I understand that Toronto has many opportunities and all types of specialties available to shadow and research opportunities to go after, I'm wondering if it's the same in Kingston as well? 

3. The Mississauga experience. I've heard from current and previous students that the Mississauga experience could use some work and some students feel as if they're stuck between events and opportunities in Toronto and mandatory sessions (CBL and Clinical skills) in Mississauga. Could current MAM or UofT students share their experience about how the satellite campus experience is? 

If anyone has anything else to add, that would also be amazing. I'm honestly stuck 50/50 between the two. I don't think I have any personal reasons (i.e. family/relationships) for choosing one school or the other if that helps!

Thanks  

[Sauna]

2 hours ago, dantheman24 said:

1. The curriculum. I've heard Queen's is very lecture based and not as much case-based learning in smaller groups. If someone could clarify this that would be great!

LOOOL, my class has actually been upset that there hasn't been enough lectures recently  We've averaged 4-5 hours of lecture per week this term. The highest we've had was 8 hours of lecture in one week and that was the first week of the term when all the courses had their "intro" lectures. In comparison, there's about 15-18 hours of small group stuff (including case-based learning/facilitated small group learning/clinical skills). Our medical building itself was designed for small group learning and even the lecture halls have been designed to accommodate breaking out into small groups.

2 hours ago, dantheman24 said:

2. The research/shadowing opportunities in Kingston. I understand that Toronto has many opportunities and all types of specialties available to shadow and research opportunities to go after, I'm wondering if it's the same in Kingston as well? 

Pretty much

[dantheman24]

2 minutes ago, Sauna said:

Pretty much

Are there any specialties/rotations not available in Kingston to shadow? Or that you feel might be better elsewhere?

[Sauna]

38 minutes ago, dantheman24 said:

Are there any specialties/rotations not available in Kingston to shadow? Or that you feel might be better elsewhere?

No, there hasn't been a specialty we couldn't shadow because it's not available. I actually think observerships would be better here, because you're scrubbed in right at the table rather having to look over 5-6 people in the OR and in clinic you'll be more involved (depends who you're with, but in most of my observerships I've taken histories/done physical exams and reported to the resident/attending). Not sure if other places will let 1st year med students do that (maybe Mac?), but our clinical skills curriculum is amazing so they trust us. It also helps that 95% of the practicing clinicians are also profs, so they know exactly what we know and what level we're at. 

I actually think this is part of the reason Queens' match rate is consistently so high/the highest, we are pretty involved right from first year. 

[xiphoid]

2 hours ago, Sauna said:

I actually think observerships would be better here, because you're scrubbed in right at the table rather having to look over 5-6 people in the OR and in clinic you'll be more involved (depends who you're with, but in most of my observerships I've taken histories/done physical exams and reported to the resident/attending).

I second this! I've done observerships in both Toronto and Kingston, and even as a premed student, the experience was definitely a lot better in Kingston. There are less learners so you get closer to the action in the OR (i.e. you can actually see, not just trying to find a spot where you can see between other peoples' heads only to be rewarded with only the surface of the patient's incision, not inside where all the cool stuff is taking place).

[CantConcentrate]

4 hours ago, Sauna said:

No, there hasn't been a specialty we couldn't shadow because it's not available. I actually think observerships would be better here, because you're scrubbed in right at the table rather having to look over 5-6 people in the OR and in clinic you'll be more involved (depends who you're with, but in most of my observerships I've taken histories/done physical exams and reported to the resident/attending).

I'll add the UofT perspective here. I've spoken to a few of my friends at Queens and something that's been somewhat consistent is that if you're interested in very niche things (e.g. I have friends interested in working in LGBTQ+ health or trans health specifically), sometimes you'll only be able to find these opportunities in Toronto given the denser population and more specialized care that can take place here. In general, I've found as a medical student at UofT that if you ask a physician to shadow them for a day, they're generally with you 1:1 or with you and a resident (1:2), so it's not like you're excluded or anything.

[Edict]

10 hours ago, CantConcentrate said:

I'll add the UofT perspective here. I've spoken to a few of my friends at Queens and something that's been somewhat consistent is that if you're interested in very niche things (e.g. I have friends interested in working in LGBTQ+ health or trans health specifically), sometimes you'll only be able to find these opportunities in Toronto given the denser population and more specialized care that can take place here. In general, I've found as a medical student at UofT that if you ask a physician to shadow them for a day, they're generally with you 1:1 or with you and a resident (1:2), so it's not like you're excluded or anything.

OP is offered at MAM though, which probably won't have as many opportunities in niche things that you are talking about. At the same time, because it is a community hospital, it will have many of the same benefits as Queen's, including a smaller learner to faculty ratio etc. 

[Aetherus]

I had the same decision to make as OP four years ago. I think one of the things that really makes Queen's medical education amazing is the following. Almost every physician in Kingston is affiliated with Queen's and has been recruited knowing that a large portion of their job will relate to teaching. Furthermore, Queen's is one of the only academic centres that I am aware of that has an exclusive alternative funding plan for all physicians. Essentially every physician in Kingston is salaried and has an explicit expectation that they will teach medical students. This is huge in a few ways, most notably, this means that physicians can take the time out of their day to teach you without hindering their bottom line. This type of model also attracts physicians who are genuinely interested in teaching. This leads to a culture where physicians are willing to allow medical students more liberty in doing tasks and are happy to teach at every occasion. 

From my experience in the community, it is a numbers game. Many of these centres aim to see as many patients as possible and as quickly as possible. Unfortunately this doesn't lead to the best learning experience for medical students. 

Another thing that should be mentioned is that Queen's is affiliated with Humber Rive in Toronto and therefore some students do most of their clinical rotations in Toronto if that is something that is important to you. 

[CantConcentrate]

1 hour ago, Edict said:

OP is offered at MAM though, which probably won't have as many opportunities in niche things that you are talking about. At the same time, because it is a community hospital, it will have many of the same benefits as Queen's, including a smaller learner to faculty ratio etc. 

Point taken, but the vast majority of the MAM class does pursue shadowing downtown, and it would be easier to facilitate that through UofT than, say, Queens. Definitely agree with you that MAM has more of a community feel than the more academic DT TO for sure though.

[crisronaldo]

Congrats for securing both offers, its amazing. Here are some points you might wanna consider

1- UofT has revitalized their curriculum with less traditional lectures and more self-directed learning a couple years ago. You even get an entire free day per week dedicated so you can pursue any opportunity (clinical or research) you want on that day, on top of other clinical activities that you can get involved at on other days. UofT realized some of their earlier limitations where they used to focus alot on traditional lectures, and have set to correct it with this new curriculum that started on 2016. So any match rates you might hear about are not representative because these rates represent previous cohorts that had the previous curriculum. 

2- You will have your pick of research, shadowing, and clinical opportunities at UofT, and with more top-file doctors and professors, who will much more likely be working on top-tier projects, so you have a much better chance of building a more impressive CV and make connections in Toronto, which will help you match later on if you want to match to Toronto (home advantage). You have access to SO SO MANY hospitals and specialists in Toronto, which has speciality hospitals dedicated to certain specialties. Toronto hospitals are also among the best in North America and the world.

3- I have friends at MAM, and contrary to their initial thoughts, they loved it more than they ever they would. MAM has a very small (about 50 student) class, very tight-knit community, and you get to know everyone in your class pretty well. Even smaller, tighter, and more tight-knit than queens (which has 100 students).

4- which city do you wanna live at? 4 years of your life is not a short time. Toronto is a big city with so much opportunities, has anything you wish to have, and you can do anything you personally want to do. Great city, buildings, entertainment, bars, restaurants, places, food, lake etc etc. This can be crucial when trying to relax from the heavy schedule you will have in med school. Kingston on the other hand is a pretty small town, with barely anything to do, which is a turnoff for many students who want to make the most of their years while they can.

5- where do you want to do residency? If you want Toronto, then pick UofT. You will have so much more time and opportunities to build connections with doctors, faculty and program directors there which is the most important factor for matching into residency.

6- MAM is pretty much 20-30 mins from downtown Toronto. There is even a dedicated university bus that goes out from MAM campus and drops you off at downtown campus all the time. And the students I know studying there spend a lot of their time in downtown anyway, so your pretty much in downtown.

7- UofT has much higher prestige and reputation, and is much much better known internationally, especially in the US.

8- very very few people turn down their offers to UofT, usually to stay in their province (despite sending out 250+ offers). Whereas most people reject their initial offers at queens (waitlist moves by about 100 spots every year despite the school sending only 100 initial offers).

All in all its your choice and no one can decide for you. But based on what you said, it seems like MAM is a better fit. More clinical/research opportunities, very much around downtown Toronto, and a tighter (50 student or so), more close-knit community which seems to be what you are looking for

[xiphoid]

1 hour ago, crisronaldo said:

8- very very few people turn down their offers to UofT, usually to stay in their province (despite sending out 250+ offers). Whereas most people reject their initial offers at queens (waitlist moves by about 100 spots every year despite the school sending only 100 initial offers).

Pretty sure all the Ontario medical schools send out more initial offers than they actually have spots, including Queen's. And I would sure hope UofT sends out 250+ offers considering they have a class size of 259  

[crisronaldo]

30 minutes ago, xiphoid said:

Pretty sure all the Ontario medical schools send out more initial offers than they actually have spots, including Queen's. And I would sure hope UofT sends out 250+ offers considering they have a class size of 259  

Thats not the point. consistently year in year out queens sent about 100 initial offers for 100 spots, and usually 90 people of those decline their offers (not to mention 10 of those are Quarms spots for highschool students who all pretty much accept). UofT sends about 260 initial offers, and only about 40 of those decline their offers (i.e about 90% of students declined their queens offers vs 15% decline their uoft offers). official stats in the links

all canadian schools stats are here so you can clearly see how many offers were sent and declined at each school including queens (doesnt include uoft stats):

http://uoitdcpremed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/2018-AdmissionRequirements_en.pdf

and heres the uoft stats for last year :

 

[Sauna]

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

Congrats for securing both offers, its amazing. Here are some points you might wanna consider

1- UofT has revitalized their curriculum with less traditional lectures and more self-directed learning a couple years ago. You even get an entire free day per week dedicated so you can pursue any opportunity (clinical or research) you want on that day, on top of other clinical activities that you can get involved at on other days. UofT realized some of their earlier limitations where they used to focus alot on traditional lectures, and have set to correct it with this new curriculum that started on 2016. So any match rates you might hear about are not representative because these rates represent previous cohorts that had the previous curriculum.

This is true for every school, like.. our curriculum gets improved every year too so the current (highest in the country) match rates aren't representative either. Every school is always looking to improve, not just U of T.

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

2- You will have your pick of research, shadowing, and clinical opportunities at UofT, and with more top-file doctors and professors, who will much more likely be working on top-tier projects, so you have a much better chance of building a more impressive CV and make connections in Toronto, which will help you match later on if you want to match to Toronto (home advantage). You have access to SO SO MANY hospitals and specialists in Toronto, which has speciality hospitals dedicated to certain specialties. Toronto hospitals are also among the best in North America and the world.

This isn't limited to Toronto. Med school is about learning the basics so no med student is going to be doing ground-breaking research in the academic year anyway. In the summer, we all have the option of doing research in Toronto, and even bigger academic centres than Toronto (ie some of my classmates are doing research at Harvard this summer) - this isn't limited to Toronto students only.

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

3- I have friends at MAM, and contrary to their initial thoughts, they loved it more than they ever they would. MAM has a very small (about 50 student) class, very tight-knit community, and you get to know everyone in your class pretty well. Even smaller, tighter, and more tight-knit than queens (which has 100 students).

Then explain how 10 of us got into your class photo at OMSW

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

4- which city do you wanna live at? 4 years of your life is not a short time. Toronto is a big city with so much opportunities, has anything you wish to have, and you can do anything you personally want to do. Great city, buildings, entertainment, bars, restaurants, places, food, lake etc etc. This can be crucial when trying to relax from the heavy schedule you will have in med school. Kingston on the other hand is a pretty small town, with barely anything to do, which is a turnoff for many students who want to make the most of their years while they can.

72% pass, 100 page notes for an exam, every 2 weeks. Good luck trying to relax lol.

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

5- where do you want to do residency? If you want Toronto, then pick UofT. You will have so much more time and opportunities to build connections with doctors, faculty and program directors there which is the most important factor for matching into residency.

Except we have a higher proportion matching to Toronto, 59% vs. 52%. 

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

6- MAM is pretty much 20-30 mins from downtown Toronto. There is even a dedicated university bus that goes out from MAM campus and drops you off at downtown campus all the time. And the students I know studying there spend a lot of their time in downtown anyway, so your pretty much in downtown.

Yeah and Kingston is pretty much the Miami of Canada

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

7- UofT has much higher prestige and reputation, and is much much better known internationally, especially in the US.

How does that matter? It pretty much only comes into play if you're applying for residency in the US, in which case you're better off going to a U.S. school in the first place. 

2 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

8- very very few people turn down their offers to UofT, usually to stay in their province (despite sending out 250+ offers). Whereas most people reject their initial offers at queens (waitlist moves by about 100 spots every year despite the school sending only 100 initial offers).

First, those numbers are wrong, it was 70 declined offers last year, not 100 (and looking even more popular this year). Second, this is a classic example of the appeal to popular opinion fallacy. And third, how does it matter? 

 

[gangliocytoma]

1 hour ago, xiphoid said:

Pretty sure all the Ontario medical schools send out more initial offers than they actually have spots, including Queen's. And I would sure hope UofT sends out 250+ offers considering they have a class size of 259  

Eh not really anything measure things by. The match rate for Queen's speaks for it self  

Kingston is a nice town with tons of great restaurants. Queen's as a university is nice and has a great community feel. I can't comment on the "tighter-knittedness" of the MAM group but we have a great group here. Tons of clinical exposure and ability to connect with mentors. Doctors will always stop and take time to explain things to you even if they're busy rounding in the ICU or performing a surgery. I don't really see any drawbacks of Queen's. I'm sure U of T is great too tho!

[Aetherus]

1 hour ago, crisronaldo said:

Thats not the point. consistently year in year out queens sent about 100 initial offers for 100 spots, and usually 90 people of those decline their offers (not to mention 10 of those are Quarms spots for highschool students who all pretty much accept). UofT sends about 260 initial offers, and only about 40 of those decline their offers (i.e about 90% of students declined their queens offers vs 15% decline their uoft offers). official stats in the links

all canadian schools stats are here so you can clearly see how many offers were sent and declined at each school including queens (doesnt include uoft stats):

http://uoitdcpremed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/2018-AdmissionRequirements_en.pdf

and heres the uoft stats for last year :

 

It seems like your argument is that Toronto is a better school because, according to your stats, people accept their offers at a higher rate. I think you are grossly mistaken to infer that desirability equates a better education. There is a multitude of unaccounted factors that could explain the stats you have presented aside from quality of education. The most notable factor would be hometown. It is well known that there is more applicants to medical school from the GTA than anywhere else in Canada. It would therefore make sense that these applicants would prefer to stay at home for medical school. In contrast, very few applicants come from Kingston and therefore not many people have ties to the community. Couple in the fact that a smaller city with a reputation of being WASP, won't be the most desirable locations for people of other ethnic backgrounds. This probably accounts for a large part of the difference in accepting offers.

I'm also curious as to how much time you have spent in Kingston in order to judge that there is "nothing" to do. Although Kingston is small, there is more than enough things to do to stay busy throughout medical school. 

I think your advice would be much better received if you spoke to the strengths of your program without trying to discredit other programs. 

At the end of the day, if you want to quote stats, you should quote stats that are relevant to a medical student. I fail to understand how the number of people who have accepted or rejected an offer is of any relevance to your education. It appears that you are implying that people off the waitlist are B-list applicants, which is complete non-sense. I have been on selection interview committees multiple times and the difference between applicants who are accepted or high on the waitlist is negligible. If there is any stats that are useful to people deciding on where to do residency, it's how well the school matches through CaRMS. If you would like to supply detailed stats in this regard for UofT, we could gladly discuss relevant stats.

[crisronaldo]

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

This is true for every school, like.. our curriculum gets improved every year too so the current (highest in the country) match rates aren't representative either. Every school is always looking to improve, not just U of T.

You clearly have no clue about whats going on at UofT. UofT made a major overhaul of their preclerkship program in 2016 (not the little simple changes schools make every year). They've started relying more on clinical activities and self directed learning, in combination with some lecture based material, instead of relying on lectures alone. Queens is not the only school where students start training on the clinical stuff from year 1, almost every school in Canada are doing it now (although some of these schools only adopted this model in the last few years).

 

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

This isn't limited to Toronto. Med school is about learning the basics so no med student is going to be doing ground-breaking research in the academic year anyway. In the summer, we all have the option of doing research in Toronto, and even bigger academic centres than Toronto (ie some of my classmates are doing research at Harvard this summer) - this isn't limited to Toronto students only.

And many students at Toronto do research at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and other Ivy League institutes. Being at UofT however gives you the chance to engage in that level of activities without having to travel far, and from the comfort of your own city. Something that is not only more convenient at the summer, but also is the only option if you wish to do that during school year. Not to mention that its alot easier to do that if your in Toronto in the first place, because you can meet a lot of those doctors personally.

 

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

Then explain how 10 of us got into your class photo at OMSW

First of all am not at UofT. Thanks for the assumption. Second its very clear you have no clue whatsoever about MAM specifically or UofT in general. At MAM, the students refer to the class as MAMily (for family in reference to how tight-knit it is). 

 

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

72% pass, 100 page notes for an exam, every 2 weeks. Good luck trying to relax lol.

did you even read what I said or are you just trying to make fun of everything I say? I said to relax from the heavy workload you will have in med school. Everyone will have a tough time, so its important to have a city that allows you to enjoy your time whenever you can so the stress doesnt add up.

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

Except we have a higher proportion matching to Toronto, 59% vs. 52%. 

every person on this forum will tell you to go where you want to do residency. more connections, core rotations, better chance to meet with and get evaluated by your home school residency programs. check every other single thread regarding this topic. period.

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

Yeah and Kingston is pretty much the Miami of Canada

what are you smoking? it seems like some really good stuff

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

How does that matter? It pretty much only comes into play if you're applying for residency in the US, in which case you're better off going to a U.S. school in the first place. 

maybe one day you will learn that not everything in life goes the way you want. life will always throw bumps in your way. just because you dont consider it, doesnt mean everyone else may not need to think about it someday. And no going to the US is not better off, unless you want to pile up 500k in debt.

3 hours ago, Sauna said:

First, those numbers are wrong, it was 70 declined offers last year, not 100 (and looking even more popular this year). Second, this is a classic example of the appeal to popular opinion fallacy. And third, how does it matter? 

in case you havent noticed that was an approximation. most years it is 90 people who decline (including 2015 and 2016). in 2017 it was somewhere around 76 I think. Look up the stats in the file. 

 

Look we get it, you are a die-hard queens student who would go to the end of the world to support your school. But one thing you should have learned in medicine is the ability to appreciate multiple perspectives on a matter. Just because you think someway, doesnt mean everyone else should think the same. So dont try to force others to think the way you want them to. People have different views, whether you agree with them or not thats up to each person themselves. Thats what everyone else here is doing, everyone is giving their perspective on the matter without telling others how to think.

[FlameGrilledChicken]

3 minutes ago, crisronaldo said:

You clearly have no clue about whats going on at UofT. UofT made a major overhaul of their preclerkship program in 2016 (not the little simple changes schools make every year). They've started relying more on clinical activities and self directed learning, in combination with some lecture based material, instead of relying on lectures alone. Queens is not the only school where students start training on the clinical stuff from year 1, almost every school in Canada are doing it now (although some of these schools only adopted this model in the last few years).

 

And many students at Toronto do research at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and other Ivy League institutes. Being at UofT however gives you the chance to engage in that level of activities without having to travel far, and from the comfort of your own city. Something that is not only more convenient at the summer, but also is the only option if you wish to do that during school year. Not to mention that its alot easier to do that if your in Toronto in the first place, because you can meet a lot of those doctors personally.

 

First of all am not at UofT. Thanks for the assumption. Second its very clear you have no clue whatsoever about MAM specifically or UofT in general. At MAM, the students refer to the class as MAMily (for family in reference to how tight-knit it is). 

 

did you even read what I said or are you just trying to make fun of everything I say? I said to relax from the heavy workload you will have in med school. Everyone will have a tough time, so its important to have a city that allows you to enjoy your time whenever you can so the stress doesnt add up.

every person on this forum will tell you to go where you want to do residency. check every other single thread regarding this topic. period.

what are you smoking? it seems like some really good stuff

maybe one day you will learn that not everything in life goes the way you want. life will always throw bumps in your way. just because you dont consider it, doesnt mean everyone else may not need to think about it someday. And no going to the US is not better off, unless you want to pile up 500k in debt.

in case you havent noticed that was an approximation. most years it is 90 people who decline (including 2015 and 2016). in 2017 it was somewhere around 76 I think. Look up the stats in the file. 

 

Look we get it, you are a die-hard queens student who would go to the end of the world to support your school. But one thing you should have learned in medicine is the ability to appreciate multiple perspectives on a matter. Just because you think someway, doesnt mean everyone else should think the same. So dont try to force others to think the way you want them to. People have different views, whether you agree with them or not thats up to each person themselves. Thats what everyone else here is doing, everyone is giving their perspective on the matter without telling others how to think.

Sorry, just curious which school you go to since you mentioned you're not at UofT? You seem to know quite a bit about UofT which is why I ask (respectfully)

[xiphoid]

33 minutes ago, crisronaldo said:

But one thing you should have learned in medicine is the ability to appreciate multiple perspectives on a matter. Just because you think someway, doesnt mean everyone else should think the same. So dont try to force others to think the way you want them to. People have different views, whether you agree with them or not thats up to each person themselves. Thats what everyone else here is doing, everyone is giving their perspective on the matter without telling others how to think.

I find this so hilariously ironic for how hypocritical it is.

We are all sharing our views, yet @crisronaldo you seem to be the only person on this thread who is absolutely not okay with anyone saying Queen's has any advantages over UofT. Also want to point out in terms of research and exposure to doctors engaged in high levels of research (and with basically everything in life), quality is better than quantity. Working on a few smaller research projects with multiple different clinician-scientists will likely not be as beneficial for residency applications and the long-term for your career than working on a lot of research projects with a clinician-scientist and mentor who you have a strong, professional and close relationship with. 

[gangliocytoma]

7 hours ago, crisronaldo said:

2- You will have your pick of research, shadowing, and clinical opportunities at UofT, and with more top-file doctors and professors, who will much more likely be working on top-tier projects, so you have a much better chance of building a more impressive CV and make connections in Toronto, which will help you match later on if you want to match to Toronto (home advantage). You have access to SO SO MANY hospitals and specialists in Toronto, which has speciality hospitals dedicated to certain specialties. Toronto hospitals are also among the best in North America and the world.

 

 

If you wanna do some world class research, I'd recommend to head over to McMaster, Canada's most research intensive university. Way less students so you'd be more likely to work with the PI you want!

 

[crisronaldo]

To the OP you can also find more about the curriculum structure and the major changes that happened at uoft on their website

http://www.md.utoronto.ca/Annual_Report/look-ahead/foundations

http://www.md.utoronto.ca/foundations-curriculum-courses-components-themes

"In addition to content being delivered through lectures, it is thematically linked and integrated across multiple learning activities that involve various modalities such as small, expert-led group seminars, case-based learning, small-group workshops, community placements, and clinical skills sessions. To enable greater depth of content exploration, students will be introduced to content through online materials and other resources prior to their classroom sessions.Each week has a full day that is unscheduled, and available for self-study, and special activities such as clinical skill development."

Hope this helps. Best of luck, you've got a bright future ahead of you.

[gangliocytoma]

43 minutes ago, crisronaldo said:

To the OP you can also find more about the curriculum structure and the major changes that happened at uoft on their website

http://www.md.utoronto.ca/Annual_Report/look-ahead/foundations

http://www.md.utoronto.ca/foundations-curriculum-courses-components-themes

"In addition to content being delivered through lectures, it is thematically linked and integrated across multiple learning activities that involve various modalities such as small, expert-led group seminars, case-based learning, small-group workshops, community placements, and clinical skills sessions. To enable greater depth of content exploration, students will be introduced to content through online materials and other resources prior to their classroom sessions.Each week has a full day that is unscheduled, and available for self-study, and special activities such as clinical skill development."

Hope this helps. Best of luck, you've got a bright future ahead of you.

Sounds a lot like how Queen's does their curriculum LOL. 

Online DIL (directed independent learning) prior to a lecture. Also have cases that we work through in class during lecture and connected cases in our FSGL (facilitated small group learning) where we go through cases with a faculty member in groups. They try to incorporate clinical skills with relevant things you are covering in blocks. I.e. newborn examination/adolescent interview/toddler assessment while Peds block is running.

[gangliocytoma]

@dantheman24

Regardless of where you choose, you'll have great schooling. If you have any questions about Queen's shoot me a message.

[crisronaldo]

15 hours ago, xiphoid said:

I find this so hilariously ironic for how hypocritical it is.

We are all sharing our views, yet @crisronaldo you seem to be the only person on this thread who is absolutely not okay with anyone saying Queen's has any advantages over UofT. Also want to point out in terms of research and exposure to doctors engaged in high levels of research (and with basically everything in life), quality is better than quantity. Working on a few smaller research projects with multiple different clinician-scientists will likely not be as beneficial for residency applications and the long-term for your career than working on a lot of research projects with a clinician-scientist and mentor who you have a strong, professional and close relationship with. 

dont get me wrong, all canadian med schools are amazing and everyone would be lucky to get into one. you may favor queens, someone else would favor uoft, everyone here is posting their perspective and information on the topic, but sauna keeps quoting everything I say to try to change the way people think about my perspective. 

As for quality of projects and opportunities thats another misconception about bigger schools. If your looking for a mentor and close strong relationships you can find that at Toronto as well.

[crisronaldo]

Here is another thread about opportunities as well. So not everything is available in Kingston (coming from Epona who is a queens student) and you may have to travel for some opportunities. Am sure you can find out more information by looking in this forum.

 

[robclem21]

Ill just offer a couple quick thoughts on MAM since I don't see much actual representation from us here. To be honest, I can't comment on Queens but I am sure that no matter what you choose you will have a great experience. I also can't comment on the new curriculum since I was last year of the old one. Very very few people actually look back on this decision and regret the choice they make. Aside from all the school stuff, try to take into account where you will be happy.

For MAM:

1) It is very tight knit. You will get to know each of your classmates very well since there are only 50 of us, and develop some closer bonds with a larger number of people. You can have some great friends downtown as well and especially in the first couple years, there are really no barriers to going downtown for social events.

2) As MAM continues to mature (technically still in its infancy), Mississauga is continually evolving into an academic centre with more and more research opportunities that you can participate in. There are many MAM students that have done research at THP and although its not perfect, there are opportunities with relatively little competition from other students. You are likely not gonna break ground as a student anyway. The faculty is also very open to suggestions and new things you can do from scratch since they are trying to build the program. I also did research downtown during the summer which is more than feasible and appropriate for a medical student.

3) Clinical experience is a mixed bag. It is true that we don't get as much "teaching" as they do downtown. There are few residents during the day and most of the time is spent one on one with staff. They are typically busier and don't sit us down to teach as much. However, you get way more interaction with the staff (who will be writing letters for you at the end of the day), and also the hands-on experience is amazing. You will scrub for surgeries, 1st assist in surgeries, suture, intubate, deliver babies, etc. It really depends on what type of experience you prefer and want.

All in all I have had a very fulfilling, amazing experience here and would likely pick MAM again given the choice. I also turned down offers to other schools and don't regret it. Good luck in whatever choice you make.