U of T class size increase

[MCATwannabe]

I heard U of T is increasing their class size to over 120 next year.

Is this a fact or a mere rumour?

[UWOStudent89]

I heard U of T is increasing their class size to over 120 next year.

Is this a fact or a mere rumour?

 

starting this year's application (class of 2018)?

[MCATwannabe]

starting this year's application (class of 2018)?

 

I'm not sure, but the rumour was about this upcoming year (class of 2018).

[mrewmrew]

Why are they increasing class size at a time like this???

 

Increasing it over 120 is a HUGE increase... they didnt even sent out 120 offers in total last year.

[MCATwannabe]

Why are they increasing class size at a time like this???

 

Like I said, it's a rumour. Any U of T people know this?

[mrewmrew]

Like I said, it's a rumour. Any U of T people know this?

 

Someone on this board, Ostracized, sits on some ODA committee and a few weeks ago he mentioned UofT was planning on increasing class size in the very near future. So I don't think it's a rumour.

 

But still, what is going through their minds? Why increase class size at a time when foreign intake/reciprocal agreements is at an all time high?

[Zellerz93]

I know that it is increasing, but not to 120, it is increasing by another 15, to 99/100 ish.

[MCATwannabe]

I think this 120 spots would mean substantial decrease in the level of education. Personally, I don't believe any dental school in Canada has the ability to expand at that rate.

The rumour stated, that teachings would include Row Instructor doing the procedure followed by students watching. If this is indeed the way they are planning to do this, I think they would have significant issues with prestige in future. Dental school curriculum is already difficult as is. Imagine what it would be if you wouldn't do the procedure at all.

 

For the new upcoming class, it would mean 1 in 5 chance of getting in, instead of 1 in 9. Enjoy

[MCATwannabe]

I know that it is increasing, but not to 120, it is increasing by another 15, to 99/100 ish.

 

Oh, then 120 would be in two years.

[mrewmrew]

Really wanna know their rational for increasing class size. Saturation in Ontario is no longer an opinion, it's a fact that's been confirmed by key speakers of CDA and ODA.

[MCATwannabe]

Really wanna know their rational for increasing class size. Saturation in Ontario is no longer an opinion, it's a fact that's been confirmed by key speakers of CDA and ODA.

 

Honestly, I'm not too sure anymore. Though I must say the number of Internationally Trained Dentist accepted through accreditation process decreased this year.

 

I really think this is just bad for everyone. For those getting in, and for those already becoming one/are dentist.

[dentalhopeful15]

I believe this is true. At U of T exam centre this year, the invigilators, who themselves were u of t dental students, casually announced during the exam that U of T will indeed be increasing their class size to 100 something for the current admission cycle.

[septolete]

I know many uoft graduates who couldn't land a job in GTA and ended up moving west to Alberta and Manitoba. And this was 4 years ago when their class size was around 50 ish.

[DDS2017]

I know many uoft graduates who couldn't land a job in GTA and ended up moving west to Alberta and Manitoba. And this was 4 years ago when their class size was around 50 ish.

 

Not good... not good at all

[septolete]

When I interviewed at NYU and Detroit Mercy two years ago, they were doulbing their class sizes. When I asked them about the faculty to student ratio, they said it will remain the same because they were gonna have morning and afternoon classes, which I thought was ridiculous.

 

BTTW, this is an actual quote from their student publication: "the loss in state funding represents almost 19 percent of our operating budget. In order to preserve the high quality programs and minimize future tuition increases, an increase in class size was the only reasonable alternative that could predictably protect the School’s future."

 

Bottom line: cash grab

 

I suppose something similar is happening at Uoft?

[dentistry4life]

When I interviewed at NYU and Detroit Mercy two years ago, they were doulbing their class sizes. When I asked them about the faculty to student ratio, they said it will remain the same because they were gonna have morning and afternoon classes, which I thought was ridiculous.

 

Detroit Mercy has one of the best clinical programs in the US. Upenn is said to have the best clinical experience followed by Detroit and Maryland. On the other hand, NYU has too many seats to accommodate students in clinical training. Students at NYU have to share booths which can be quite tedious (so I've heard).

 

In comparison to Canada, US schools usually have better clinical training. I've spoken to a few dentists at Schulich and they've said that Western is starting to focus more on research (as a result, their clinical training has taken a hit). With that said, the US comes at a cost. So it depends on what you value more. I would have a tough decision deciding between Upenn and Western. I'd probably end up picking Western due to financial reasons but if I could pay for Upenn, I would be there in a heartbeat.

[mrewmrew]

I know many uoft graduates who couldn't land a job in GTA and ended up moving west to Alberta and Manitoba. And this was 4 years ago when their class size was around 50 ish.

 

UofT's class size is going to double in size in the span of 5 years..? Really?

[mrewmrew]

When I interviewed at NYU and Detroit Mercy two years ago, they were doulbing their class sizes. When I asked them about the faculty to student ratio, they said it will remain the same because they were gonna have morning and afternoon classes, which I thought was ridiculous.

 

BTTW, this is an actual quote from their student publication: "the loss in state funding represents almost 19 percent of our operating budget. In order to preserve the high quality programs and minimize future tuition increases, an increase in class size was the only reasonable alternative that could predictably protect the School’s future."

 

Bottom line: cash grab

 

I suppose something similar is happening at Uoft?

 

Well there's only two schools in Ontario... I can't imagine this being the reason for UofT's hike in class size. Any decrease in funding (?) from a common source would not be directed solely at one school. Westerns consistently held a smaller, stable class size than UofT for years. If anything they should be the one's affected by any cuts in funding to dental schools, not UofT. Pretty sure UofT's richer too

 

This is wishful thinking but I hope this increase in class size reflects changes that will hopefully be implemented by the CDA in the near future regarding foreign intake of dentists and reciprocal agreements. Increase domestic class size, bring back qualifying programs, and not renew the reciprocal agreements that are expiring in the next 3 years. I really wish CDA would change their policies back to match the ADA...

[Ostracized]

This was addressed by Dr. Cornell (higher-up clinical faculty at UofT) at the recent ODA council meeting. He said that the spots being added to the dental class are coming out of the IDAPP program. To be believed when seen.

[mrewmrew]

This is interesting: http://www.ndeb.ca/nonaccredited/past-assessment-results

 

Not too sure how to interpret this but in 2013 the pass rate was only 9%...? I used the total number of participants in the three tests as the denominator. Aren't people only allowed to attempt the equivalency exam twice? That's really scary...

[Ostracized]

Each of the three test may be taken 3 times.

 

I'm not sure how to calculate pass rate but it is low. They made a math error on the website when calculating total number of foreign trained grads eligible for licensure in 2013. 129+75=204

[MCATwannabe]

Each of the three test may be taken 3 times.

 

I'm not sure how to calculate pass rate but it is low. They made a math error on the website when calculating total number of foreign trained grads eligible for licensure in 2013. 129+75=204

 

No the 129 number was actually 113 or something. They changed that number. I assume someone appealed their exam...

[bunoftruth]

There's no other way to put it. The Faculty of Dentistry needs money.

 

The current first year class this year has 84 students.

The current second year class accepted ~67 students, there was a transfer of ~10 students after 1st year making it 77. Note the IDAPPs haven't been introduced yet.

My class in third year had 66 students before the IDAPP students merged in (now, 96 total).

The current 4th years first accepted 65 students.

 

I know about my class for sure, correct if I'm wrong about the other classes. As it stands, my class in third year has 96 students (30 students coming in from the IDAPP program). If the IDAPP enrollment doesn't change, the current first years will be at 84+30 = 114 by the end of 2nd year. It's still a few spots shy of the 120 "target". I don't think UofT will stop short of that target.

 

It's easy to see that the increase is not all that subtle, all happening this past summer. I've been told that the reasoning behind it is, it's really competitive to get in, so even very qualified students get rejected a lot of the time. These students then apply to the states or elsewhere, but when they graduate they come back to Canada to practice anyway, so why not just increase the enrollment here? That's their reasoning. At the end of the day however, it's all about the money.

 

It is possible that clinic will be a little more hectic with the increase in enrollment, and ability to fulfill enough core requirements to graduate somewhat less certain.

[Ostracized]

There's no other way to put it. The Faculty of Dentistry needs money.

 

The current first year class this year has 84 students.

The current second year class accepted ~67 students, there was a transfer of ~10 students after 1st year making it 77. Note the IDAPPs haven't been introduced yet.

My class in third year had 66 students before the IDAPP students merged in (now, 96 total).

The current 4th years first accepted 65 students.

 

I know about my class for sure, correct if I'm wrong about the other classes. As it stands, my class in third year has 96 students (30 students coming in from the IDAPP program). If the IDAPP enrollment doesn't change, the current first years will be at 84+30 = 114 by the end of 2nd year. It's still a few spots shy of the 120 "target". I don't think UofT will stop short of that target.

 

It's easy to see that the increase is not all that subtle, all happening this past summer. I've been told that the reasoning behind it is, it's really competitive to get in, so even very qualified students get rejected a lot of the time. These students then apply to the states or elsewhere, but when they graduate they come back to Canada to practice anyway, so why not just increase the enrollment here? That's their reasoning. At the end of the day however, it's all about the money.

 

It is possible that clinic will be a little more hectic with the increase in enrollment, and ability to fulfill enough core requirements to graduate somewhat less certain.

 

What I was told was that there would be no net increase to the UofT class size as the IDAPP class will be decreased. I hope that's the truth.

[UWOStudent89]

If UofT actually does that, not raising the net class size, I would be very impressed with the school, considering what the American schools are doing.

 

what are American schools doing??