doubting the debt

[Guest seonagh]

Hello all,

Love these forums!!

 

I'm in the premeditating premed stage as a non-trad student. I'm 29 working a non-fulfilling career that has come close to sucking the life and dreams out of me altogether. My decision to go for it at my age is based on a realization of this being my one life to live and for me, medicine has been the one constant dream I had come to expect I would never achieve.

 

I want to emphasize that I would never be considering medicine only for the money. That said, with the financial stress that my husband and I will assume over the course of 3yrs undergrad and the 4yrs of med school plus residency, am I crazy? I have always assumed that the relative salary of a doctors would allow me to confidently pay back the loans after residency and go on to live a rewarding life that includes some modest financial comfort.

 

I'm seeing website after website (mostly US based mind you) that emphasize the lack of appropriate compensation for doctors considering the debt load we are faced with. Again, just to cover the point and avoid the "don't get into it for the money" responses, I know that 9 years of hard work would never be worth money alone unless I was going to get George Clooney's salary at the end of it all. What I'm talking about, is the sanity of a 29 year old with a lowish paying career (30Kish) taking on the kind of debt that medical school requires. I look at this as a return on investment issue combined with the reward of doing something you love. Reality being what it is, however, to study and work one's heart out for 9 years only to be in financial ruins at the end is not sane. I like to think that the potential compensation will at least see us pay off the debt load in a reasonable time frame and have the ability to live comfortably afterwards. If this is a pipe dream I want to be able to weigh that fact.

 

I plan to pay as we go with the undergrad since I intend to keep my current job working nights but I will leave that job when med school begins and we will down to one income and the inevitable loans for med school itself.

 

thanks,

Sheena

[Guest PDSP]

Sheena:

 

I'd like to share with you my situation as it might provide you with an example of someone in a similar situation as yourself.

 

I obtained a degree in engineering and was working in that field for about 3 years. I realized that it was not what I wanted to be doing for the remainder of my working years. Deciding to go back to school in medicine was a difficult choice, especially since I had to take a leave of absence from work to take the prerequisite undergrade courses and write the MCAT. At this point I was 26.

 

When I did the financial comparison between continuing my current job versus going back to medical school, I learned that the "break-even" point was 15 years from the start of medical school. Medical school is most definitely not the way to get rich.

 

With a quick look at your situation, the fact that you can continue to work during the three years of undergrad, means that your break-even point is about 15-16 years from the the start of undergrad. But, it is not as bad as it may seem as there is financial aid available for medical students. Even if government aid is not available to you, medical students can easily obtain lines of credit up to $120K at a prime interest rate. This should be sufficient to carry you through the medical school years.

 

When you look at it, starting undergrad school at 30 means that your break-even point is 45. This means that you still have 20 years in which you'll be earning significantly more as a doctor than your current career. While at the same time, doing something that you love.

 

If you have a dream, work hard to make it happen. It may even be worth it to NOT work during undergrad so that you may fully devote yourself to school, volunteering, and possibly some research work - all of which will make you a strong applicant to medical school.

 

I am now 27 and just starting medical school. Best of luck.

 

PD

[Guest me maniac]

Seonagh,

 

My situation is similar to yours. I also worked nights while doing my undergrad. Like your's, my job was professionally unfullfilling. I only worked so that we wouldn't have to give up the lifestyle we were used to. I have no debt going into medical school, which is great, but I should caution you: work as much as you can, without compromising your grades. If your grades are low, your chances of getting into med school are lower. There are a few things you should consider:

 

1) your drive and ambition. You obviously have been thinking about this. You need to determine if you are willing to undergo undergrad hardship to get where you want to be. What kept me going is thinking about the alternative - that is, continuing to work in a job that (in your words) were sucking the life out of me. Another thing that kept me going is something my husband said: do you want to be fifty years old thinking "I wish I would have, I know I could have." I did not want to be fifty years old and living a life I didn't enjoy. Besides, you are going to be fifty one day anyways, no matter what you do. Why not be fifty and doing what you love?

 

2) Spousal support. You will need the support of your spouse to see you through school. There is no point starting something if your marriage is going to fall apart while you are living out your dream. This support can make or break you because, as sure as you are about medical school, there WILL BE STRESSFUL MOMENTS!

 

3) Debt load. This should not play that much consideration into your decsion because there are lots of LOC's and student loan money available to you to finish medical school. I am giving up a $60K job to go back to school. I know that many of the younger med students think that money is a taboo subject, but WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! Would I be doing it if I was making $50K at the end of my residency? NO! Some people may jump all over me, but the money you make as a physician does make a difference on whether you do it or not, at least it does if your 37 and already have a decent career. I figure if I specialize, I wouldn't even be working in my new career until I am 45. It doesn't make economical sense to start all over again if you are making less than what you started with. I know people say you shouldn't go into medicine for the money, and I agree with this. This should not be the primary reason one enters medicine. Having said that, your future salary plays a big part in your decision to go to med school or not. People who think that salary should make no difference are living in a La-La world. Would as many people be going to medical school if you had all this debt at the end only to make $50K/year? probably not. When you apply for any new job, the first thing you wonder is "how much does it pay?". Why should medicine be any different?

 

As a physician, you are making a great salary compared to the average Canadian. You should be able to pay down your debt faster than most students, and still have a decent standard of living after that. I wouldn't worry too much about the debt.

 

Of course, ultimately the decision is yours and your husbands. Yes, it will be economically hard. What will be harder is the stress and strain on you and your husband. If you have the first two points above, YOU WILL MAKE IT!

 

me

[Guest macMDstudent]

Well stated, me maniac. I totally agree.

[Guest me maniac]

macMDstudent,

 

WOW! you mean some body actually agrees with me? :lol Whooohooo! and all this time, people had been calling me a "rebel without a cause"! (or in my case, a rebel without a clue!)

 

me

[Guest Lakers4life]

me maniac:

 

Does this mean that you won't be doing family meds? Why, not enough money for you? I may be living in 'la-la' land but I am glad that I am not as driven by money as you seem to be. What I don't get it is you are so determined to have a better salary when you are done why didn't you goto law school? or Denistry?

 

You say that 'why should meds be any differnet?', well that is b.c it is different. Do people become police officers for the money? Why is that profession different? B.c in this profession [police officer/meds and others] the public is putting thier utmost trust in you. They are putting their health in your hands. Hopefully this isn't just so that you can make a damn buck. Hopefully this is b.c you want that responsibility, irregardless of what you are paid.

 

You will be paid well in meds, no doubt. With the years of training, what else can you expect? For most of us that is hopefully the beg. and end of any discussion regarding money.

[Guest thelaze]

Money and salary are valid points of discussion for people contemplating what is effectively a LIFELONG career.

 

It's great that some people are so well-adjusted that money is not a concern for them. Congratulations, I'm happy for you all.

 

But there is no call to act holier than thou over someone else's legitimate concern. Yes, yes, we know it's all so very unseemly to worry about money.

 

Stop jumping all over people who are perhaps more realistic if less saintly than you are.

[Guest macMDstudent]

I consider the future of my children more important than my own personal situation. I want them to grow up in a nice environment, with plenty of opportunity and the chance to have an education themselves one day in whatever field they choose. For me not to ensure that I can provide that is completely irresponsible. To not be aware of it before giving up another career for something else would be foolhardy and affect more lives than my own. My kids would pay the price.

 

I agree that we should be assured that a good living is possible in medicine, but those of us with families have to quantify it before totally changing our lives and putting our children's future on the line.

[Guest thelaze]

macMDstudent, I completely agree with you. Maturity and foresight such as yours makes those who see fit to slam people for thinking about their futures and the futures of their children seem all the more immature.

[Guest seonagh]

Wow I started a bit of a debate. An interesting one at that. Thank you all for the great responses. You are all such a great help when it comes to putting the big decision in perspective.

 

I must say I'm so glad for the honest responses I received and the discussion we have going on here. I was somewhat worried I would get only "how dare you bring the topic of money into our discussion of this noble profession".

 

Lakers4life you do have a point on the responsibility and I totally agree that to become a Dr. only for the money would be irresponsible at best, not to mention unrealistic and possibly dangerous if you did not also have a desire to do the job well, keeping the interests of patients in mind. That said I don't see me maniac as driven by money like you say. Me Maniac, your realistic look at things reminds me that I CAN do this financially and have it make sense.

 

For those of us that are coming into this non-traditionally, this is a huge part of the decision. To gloss over the questions and doubts is pure folly. Many non-trad applicants like me are not deciding which career to get into when we choose medicine, we are deciding to give one up. We will spend a great deal of money on our dream at times when we, unlike younger applicants, have already committed to mortgages, children, spoused etc. We are also at a point where we have come to "live to our means" and asking if becoming a Dr. will irreversably reduce that means because of the debt load is not equivalent to being driven only by money. I myself have also to consider my husband that is used to a 2 income household and will be solely responsible for the bills while I attend Med school. To not consider how I will pay back the loans and how soon my financial life will normalise after school is reality for me. If I didn't want medicine for all of the higher reasons I wouldn't care enough to incur the debt and wouldn't be asking these questions. We have to pay for this dream and that is life.

 

I'm glad to see that many others have thought this through in the same ways I'm attempting to and even more elated that my confidence in the sanity of the decision has been reinforced.

 

thank you, me Maniac for your detailed response and taking the time to share your thoughts. Thank you also Lakers for heating up the debate. Please remember, though Lakers that many of us non-trad students and hopefuls have lived a decade or two of dreaming the dream all the while assuming that we couldn't afford it or that for whatever reason it was not possible. In light of this, when the pull of medicine gets strong enough to push you to make it happen, practicality simply has to be part of the puzzle.

Sheena

[Guest Mens Rea]

Hey there seonagh, I took the liberty of running a financial model for the decision for you to go back to med school, (something we did alot of in MBA school).

 

I assumed your salary is 30,000, your Doctor salary will be 150,000 and you will borrow 10,000 per year of undergrad for three years and 20,000 per year for med school. I assumed a rate of 5% for the interest on your loans. The following is what the model spit out based on those assumptions:

 

I did it in excel so the formatting is really messed up now, but look at the bottom for an explanation

 

UNDERGRAD                        MEDICAL SCHOOL                                        TOTAL INCOME LOST       

Annual Income Lost                                                                       

30,000 30,000 30,000 30,000 30,000        30,000         30,000               

 

DEBT                                                                       

10,000 10,000 10,000 20,000 20,000 20,000 20,000                       

 

210,000 income lost

 

                110,000 total debt                                               

320,000        Total Lost

                                                                5500 annual Interest@5%

 

Income as a Physician                                                                       

 

150,000        150,000        150,000        150,000        150,000        150,000        150,000                       

 

Excess over previous salary                                                               

 

120,000        120,000        120,000        120,000        120,000        120,000        120,000               

 

After Tax        income as physician                                                       

 

70,000 70,000 70,000 70,000 70,000 70,000 70,000        70,000        70,000

 

                                                               

AFTER TAX PREVIOUS INCOME                                                               

26000        26000        26000        26000        26000        26000        26000        26000        26000

 

Excess over previous after tax                                                               

44,000        44,000        44,000        44,000        44,000        44,000        44,000        44,000        44,000

-5500        -5500        -5500        -5500        -5500        -5500        -5500        -5500        -5500

 

Excess net income after interest                                                                               

 

38,500        38,500        38,500        38,500        38,500        38,500        38,500        38,500        38,500               

 

 

THE ANSWER

9 years to break even upon completing Medical school including recovering all the lost wages from your 30,000 a year job, plus repayment of the loans and the interest                                                                               

4 years to breakeven from loans, interest

 

So under the assumption that you will practice for 25 years you will have 16 years of practicing after you have broken even from lost wages and payment of loans. Sounds good, from a financial perspective. I say go for it

 

Good Luck                                                                                

[Guest seonagh]

Very cool approach Mens Rea.

 

I like it. You are adding fuel to the fire especially since I don't the the smoulder would have ever gone away even if the numbers didn't make sense and the smoke was starting to hurt my eyes

Sheena

[Guest me maniac]

 

See what I mean? Everytime that taboo subject is mentioned (shhhhh... I'm talking about money ) someone jumps up and down, thinking they are the only one that is truly interested in the practice of medicine. I have been in the medical field for the past 10 years, and yes, people put their health in my hands. I already have lots of responsibility in my job, regardless of what I get paid. So do other healthcare professionals. In those years, I have seen death, rape victims, kids that have been intentionally burned by their parents, and other things that would make people re-consider a career in medicine. If I were not dedicated enough to want to do more for these people, I would not have chosen to go into medicine. I'm going to enjoy what I will be doing after med school. If that means I earn more money than other people, so be it.

 

I have already gone to school for previous career. I then put myself through undergrad. I raised two kids, had a mortgage, had parental and professional responsibilities, and ran a business. I don't know about your situation, but I am damn proud of what I've accomplished and how I accomplished it. After residency, I will deserve every penny of what I earn. And to answer to first question, no I won't be doing family medicine, not because of the money (after all, it would be more than what I make now), but rather because I would not find it fullfilling enough. I have a specialty that I am interested in because of my first career, thank you very much (not that it should be your concern what I do for a living). I won't knock your choice to be a GP if that's what makes you happy, please don't knock mine. To answer your next question, I never considered law or denistry because I have no interest in them.

 

Your idea that a meds career is in a class all by itself is a good indication that you think other healthcare professionals are beneath them (here, I'm also referring to your comment about the Chiro-turned-med-student in the other thread. In that thread, you also stated your humble opinion and then ended by saying "Let's not waste this forum on this topic so let this be the end of the discussion". Please don't start something you cannot finish. ). I know alot of healthcare professional that have the same goal as doctors - that is, to help their patients cope with their health or loss. Hats off to them.

 

Ultimately, it is a personal decision as to what salary/career would make you happy. You choose your's and I'll choose mine. Thanks for the input though.

 

 

[Guest seonagh]

I like you, meManiac!

Sheena;)

[Guest EMHC]

This is a very interesting discussion we're having here.

 

Well, although I may not be where some of you are already where you've already started a career and have a family and have experienced other great things in life yet (I'm 18), but I totally agree with what you're saying about money and practicing medicine. It is important for us to understand that as much as we should go into a profession for interest, fulfillment and other intrinsic matters. It is, however, important for us to understand the practical reasons for doing anything. Lakers4life, you said that a person going into medicine or law enforcement (you said to be a police officer) should be in it for the responsibility and trust the public places into your hands. Well, you can't survive on public trust and responsibility. The monetary compensation in medicine compensates for the opportunity cost that a medical student must accrue throughout their years in undergrad and medical school.

 

I'm doing a commerce major (Yeah, i've heard it a million times, "Why do you want to be a doctor anyway!) and if I persue medical school, I am going to lose out on the financial side of things even up to the years I'm in residency, when comparing to my friends and classmates >: (but hey, think long term). Yes, I agree that dentistry and law are other careers that can bring in the buck, but why some of us choose medicine because of the intrinsic rewards and the salary that comes with it. Can another career out there match the combination that we want, I think not.

 

Money may not be the number one reason for doing medicine but it is one of the reasons on the list.

 

EMHC

[Guest Mens Rea]

Hey Me Maniac its like watching a movie with all those neat emoticons. Totally cool!!!!!!

 

 

Seonagh: by going to med school and finishing in the 16 years you practice after you break even from lost wages (during the schooling years) and loans + interest, you will make a profit of are you ready for this 2.4million - 480,000 = $1.9 million dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! over staying in your job that pays 30,000 per year, assuming you make 150,000 as a doctor. Wow what an investment.

 

The only catch is you have to get accepted, else those years of undergrad loans and lost wages will never be recouped if you wind up back in the 30,000 a year job.

 

But its a pretty sweet deal, I must say. If you have the courage to start, you have the courage to succeed

 

Take Care

Mike

 

(I hope my nerdy number crunching 8o has helped motivate you )

[Guest Lakers4life]

First off the problem I expressed with chiro's was the fact that their maintenance therapy was not based on EBM and yet many continued to book pts for long term followup. I am not sure if you, me maniac, is in med school right now but I doubt everyone in your class feels that my point is way off. I know many many people that also hold my view.

 

I have great respect for the many OT/PT/Nurses, etc. that also work alongisde us in the health care industry, but chiro is differnet in that it is an alternative form of meds. Sure, spinal maniuplation works in the short term. But so do other things, and of course there is no EBM for long term followup. Whatever, I don't see what that has to do with money anyways.

 

I realize that most of you are non-trad. grads and for you this is likely a different situation. You do have real life concerns like a family to look after and money obviously means more to you than it does to someone entering at the age of 21. For that I apologize, since I didn't take into account some of your unqiue concerns. Still, all this talk about money kinda makes me feel uncomfortable. I could have easily made a lot more money doing something else [the adcoms even brought this up during the interview] but I guess as along as I know that I will make a decent living that is cool with me. I know that most of you likely have similar visions and don't neccessarily want the big house and fancy cars, so hopefully we can move away from discussing money and onto other, mroe exicting parts of the medical profession.

[Guest me maniac]

Actually, I think you said chiros were not real doctors, and I quote

 

Let's not pollute this thread by talking about chiro's as real doctors...save that discussion for another thread where maybe we don't acknowledge EBM exists.

 

As far as others in med school with the same view as yours, I wonder who's paying for their education? Some of us don't have the luxury of having Mommy and Daddy paying for our education as well as trips to Europe during the summer. And yes, money probably does mean more to someone in their late thirties than to someone who is 21. Afterall, we've already gone through the stage where, in the ideal world, money is no object (and we thought we could save the whole world). We also have kids to support and I'll be damned if I sacrifice their growing up years so I can go off to play doctor. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the talk of money makes people uncomfortable. But reality is, we don't very far without at least a little bit off it, otherwise all you do-gooders would donate all of your money to some charitable organization. On the other hand, we could all work at MacDonalds if money and career were not important to us.

 

Oh, BTW, I'd like to know how many other careers have the same earning potential as medical doctors. A few, maybe. I know lawyers who only make $50K/yr. Even a professor holding a PhD - who, BTW, has undergone as many years of education (grad school, post docs, fellowships) as MD's that make a whole lot less than their MD counterparts.

 

As far as visions of big houses and fancy cars, I am giving up those to go back to school. Sorry, buddy. Been there done that.

[Guest fox]

This whole discussion of money is bothering me. I used to think I didn't care about money and would never take a job because of it. Now I find myself realizing the value of a dollar and how it doesn't go very far.... I finished a Master's and have put eight years into school so far, and I would make less working in my field than I do now working as a secretary. I can barely live off this salary. How can I even contemplate having a family if I can barely live myself? I don't think there is any shame in wanting to make a good living doing something you love. I think that's the key here- you have to do what you love, and for me, as for memaniac and others, it is medicine. It is definitley a myth that doctors make a lot of money (some areas, anyway). And after putting all that time into school and being in debt 125K, I think money should be taken into consideration when choosing your profession/specialty. Having said that, money should not be one's sole motivation for practicing medicine, but that idea has not been put forth by anyone who has expressed concern about going into debt. I cringe at the idea of owing 125K in four years from now, and I don't have near the responsibilities that others have! Congrats to everyone who has gotten accepted and is taking a big leap of faith and leaving a career while they are raising a family. If you have the motivation to go through all that school to become a physician, you should be rewarded enough in a financial sense to live a comfortable life and raise a family.

[Guest Lakers4life]

Yes I did say that they are not real doctors; real doctors goto medical school. They are chiro's, and they are as much doctors as the PhD's; they are doctors by title, not by profession.

 

As for your talk about money, not all of us have the luxary you describe. Numerous other classmates, will be over 100k in debt upon graduation. I haven't spent a summer travelling since I was 14; been busy working to help pay off the debt.

 

As for other jobs with the same earning potential, I can name a few: denstiry, chiro, law, MBA, comp. engineering, Acutary science, pilot, Accountant, etc.

 

If you call doing 4 yrs of meds plus a 6-8 yr residency [b.c to qualify for the top money you need a specialist designation] then its over 10 years of training. Hardly seems the ideal way to get rich.

 

I am not a do-gooder who intends to donate everything to charity, but I am not somoene who thinks this is a way to get rich. We all expect fair compensation for what we do, and we will get it.

 

Clearly we come from different environments; I don't have a family and I don't have many expenses. The money I have saved up for the past 5-6 years has let me pay for med school and also let me keep a little bit on the side to save up. I won't be in debt when I graduate, not b.c someone handed me money but b.c I worked for it. I could imagine that if I had a family to support with bills pilling up I would be far more concerned with finances. You said that you gave up everything to come to med school, I am not sure if I would have done the same in your situation. Its hard to start over when you have responsibilty.

 

You didn't mention if you were in meds yet, but I assume that you are. I would just caution you that engaging in discussions with your classmates about money [other than to complain about your debt] isn't going to get you a lot of friends. I know there are a lot of other people that also feel uncomfortable discussing money.

[Guest MDbadly]

Wow, I must say, 21 and heading to meds, Brilliant!!! But there's still room for growth.

 

It's concerning for me to think that you as a future doctor do not believe in any form of follow-up care. Your comments about chiros and other posts always end with wanting to move on to something else, which you have started.

 

I'm not a chiro and not even a chiro student, after all, I'm most interested in medicine but some of your comments seems a bit narrow-minded. Your comment about "chiros not being real doctors" is so old. Most chiros don't even care about the "Dr.." and would prefer if you address them on a first name bases. I think it's hard for you (and sometimes me to believe, since I'm myself get all caught up in meds) that there are other worthy and satisfying health careers out there besides meds.

 

me Maniac, said it sooo well!!! Who's thinking about money when mommy and daddy is paying for everything.

 

It would be nice to have the money provided for you to go through med school, graduate, and volunteer your services to help the world and not worry about anything. Sign me up, who doesn't dream of this. Unfortunately, for some this is not a reality.

 

One other question, would it also be wrong of me (oh no, another taboo!) to think that medicine is a highly respected career and I wouldn't mind having this bonus that comes with the territory?

[Guest me maniac]

Real doctors? This is surely elitism at it's finest!

 

If you call doing 4 yrs of meds plus a 6-8 yr residency [b.c to qualify for the top money you need a specialist designation] then its over 10 years of training. Hardly seems the ideal way to get rich.

 

We all expect fair compensation for what we do, and we will get it.

 

Thank you for clarifying that meds is not a get rich quick scheme.

 

You said that you gave up everything to come to med school, I am not sure if I would have done the same in your situation. Its hard to start over when you have responsibilty.

 

Thank you also for acknowledging the fact that others may have monetary concerns, even if their classmates don't. No, not everyone would do what I'm doing - that's why I have to consider everything if I'm serious about doing it.

 

I would just caution you that engaging in discussions with your classmates about money [other than to complain about your debt] isn't going to get you a lot of friends. I know there are a lot of other people that also feel uncomfortable discussing money.

 

Thanks again for the advice, but I already have a lot of friends - ones that I can talk to, even about uncomfortable matters - without them jumping down my throat that I'm going into meds solely for the money just because I am concerned about it.

[Guest me maniac]

MDBadly,

 

No, I don't think it's veeeeeery bad to want that respect. As a matter of fact, I'd still respect you (in the morning) - Sorry! couldn't resist adding that in!

 

 

me [Automated by GetSmile]

 

ps. I hope you are a boy-type MDBadly!

[Guest Sarah371]

Just to add my two cents worth....Doctor as in educator, teacher, fixer and HEALER.....much more broad than just MD don't ya think

 

Main Entry: 1doc·tor

Pronunciation: 'däk-t&r

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English doctour teacher, doctor, from Middle French & Medieval Latin; Middle French, from Medieval Latin doctor, from Latin, teacher, from docEre to teach -- more at DOCILE

Date: 14th century

1 a : an eminent theologian declared a sound expounder of doctrine by the Roman Catholic Church -- called also doctor of the church b : a learned or authoritative teacher c : a person who has earned one of the highest academic degrees (as a PhD) conferred by a university d : a person awarded an honorary doctorate (as an LLD or Litt D) by a college or university

2 a : one skilled or specializing in healing arts; especially : a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian who is licensed to practice b : MEDICINE MAN

3 a : material added (as to food) to produce a desired effect b : a blade (as of metal) for spreading a coating or scraping a surface

4 : a person who restores or repairs things

 

 

Kudos to all who chose to go back and to discuss things that are difficult......it is often easier to see your way through a problem if you can rely on the experience of those who have gone before

 

My two cents for what it is worth.....personally I am very happy that I will always be able to look after myself and my family financially. Whether or not we want to admit it we all see it as a plus of chosing medicine as a career.

 

SARAH

[Guest MDbadly]

me Maniac, too bad you are married! Oh well, I guess we will settle for a hot fling in med school (that is, if I ever get in).

 

Hey me Maniac, judging from a few posts (and thankfully only a few) I guess the question is if you would respect me if I become a chiro or something else if I can't become a real doctor?

 

just kidding,

 

Take care! And best wishes on your path to a new career.