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How much do dentists make on average in say Ontario?

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Petrus Newbie

Petrus

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I personally think the work is harder and more stressful, but more lucrative with some effort. ,,

 

I can't disagree with you more. I have general dentistry practice experience and I am now in med school. I can tell you, nothing is more chill and lucrative than dentistry. It's simply the best hands down.

When I was in practice, my hours were 9-5, saw about 8-9 patients a day. When work was done, work was done. Nothing to worry about at home. Compensation was great. I was averaging 10k per month as an associate working 4 days/week.

In medicine, the easiest jobs are outpatient care, particularly dermatology. But you have to be one of the lucky few to get in. Most other outpatient MD's work 50-60 hrs a week and they see tons of patients per day (20-30+). Inpatient MD's work even harder. Surgeons work >70hr easily. And most have to round 7 days a week, and take call on top of that. Don't get me wrong tho, medicine is a noble profession. Most people in medicine love what they do and don't mind the hardwork. But for lifestyle and compensation, dentistry is the best, at least in canada. (i was told by a Scotiabank banker that process loans for professionals, that dentists generally make more than physicians in canada)

Someone asked why surveys say dentists make 100k. I think it's because a lot of the female dentists work parttime after they have kids, as well as the retiring ones. Also, the high income dentists incorporate their practice and take out a smaller income (usually around 100k, below the highest tax bracket) to save tax. So on paper, their income is much less than what they make. Unless you have very bad hands or personality, I can't see how any dentists can make less than 100k full time.

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Contach Newbie

Contach

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I can't disagree with you more. I have general dentistry practice experience and I am now in med school. I can tell you, nothing is more chill and lucrative than dentistry. It's simply the best hands down.

When I was in practice, my hours were 9-5, saw about 8-9 patients a day. When work was done, work was done. Nothing to worry about at home. Compensation was great. I was averaging 10k per month as an associate working 4 days/week.

In medicine, the easiest jobs are outpatient care, particularly dermatology. But you have to be one of the lucky few to get in. Most other outpatient MD's work 50-60 hrs a week and they see tons of patients per day (20-30+). Inpatient MD's work even harder. Surgeons work >70hr easily. And most have to round 7 days a week, and take call on top of that. Don't get me wrong tho, medicine is a noble profession. Most people in medicine love what they do and don't mind the hardwork. But for lifestyle and compensation, dentistry is the best, at least in canada. (i was told by a Scotiabank banker that process loans for professionals, that dentists generally make more than physicians in canada)

Someone asked why surveys say dentists make 100k. I think it's because a lot of the female dentists work parttime after they have kids, as well as the retiring ones. Also, the high income dentists incorporate their practice and take out a smaller income (usually around 100k, below the highest tax bracket) to save tax. So on paper, their income is much less than what they make. Unless you have very bad hands or personality, I can't see how any dentists can make less than 100k full time.

 

May I ask why you switched from general dentistry to medicine?

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AllSmiles Newbie

AllSmiles

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when you say personality... do you mean being nice, caring and compassionate towards patients... or is it being very extraverted...

 

Well I think that as far as personality goes, a dentist (and any profession or life situation) has to know how to adjust to different people. If you have an anxious patient you should know how to calm him/her. If you have a talkative patient, then by all means talk to them ;) You can't just act one way with all patients. You will get much further if you can learn to read the personalities of your patients, this will help you to be a better communicator (and will keep your patients coming back to you).

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stesha Newbie

stesha

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i have been a dentist for 2 years. As an associate i first worked 2.5 days a week, and got paid 40% of my billings, and in 6 months had been paid about $60,000, which meant I had billed $150,000, in 6 months, at 2.5 days a week!

Now I work more, 4 days, and had $400,000 in billings last year, so I got paid $160,000 from my boss. Of course, being self-emplyed I now pay taxes etc, but dentists can be incorporated so the tax rate is not as high as personal tax rates. So, the quote of $50-90K is way off, especially as an owner, with hygienists and other staff producing for you, net income before tax would easily be around 350-400K.

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xylem29 Newbie

xylem29

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Koft, I've been meaning to ask you...do you really plan on have all those degree? :P

 

lol - that's a good one.

 

The DDS and MD are obviously given due to his program, I'mn not sure if OMFS is just a designation or a degree and the MSc would probably be part of his OMFS program.

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Dr.BadVibes Newbie

Dr.BadVibes

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If your a specialist you can basically practice anywhere you want and be very very very successful.

 

For example, in my specialty of pediatrics, a pediatric dentist told me that you can open a practice anywhere in Toronto and have a 3 month waiting list INSTANTLY..........why?

 

There are only 144 pediatric dentists in the entire country of Canada!!! :eek:

 

We didnt discuss compensation but when asked about the earning potential he just smiled and said "dont worry, you'll be set for life"....

 

I know around Philadelphia, I was getting offered $250K/year right away working as an associate 4 days/week.....and was told that when I opened my own practice, the skies the limit............

 

As for Koft and his OMFS buddies.....hats off to them and the things they go through.....they are definitely the cream of the crop within the dental profession ;)

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koft Newbie

koft

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If your a specialist you can basically practice anywhere you want and be very very very successful.

 

For example, in my specialty of pediatrics, a pediatric dentist told me that you can open a practice anywhere in Toronto and have a 3 month waiting list INSTANTLY..........why?

 

There are only 144 pediatric dentists in the entire country of Canada!!! :eek:

 

We didnt discuss compensation but when asked about the earning potential he just smiled and said "dont worry, you'll be set for life"....

 

I know around Philadelphia, I was getting offered $250K/year right away working as an associate 4 days/week.....and was told that when I opened my own practice, the skies the limit............

 

As for Koft and his OMFS buddies.....hats off to them and the things they go through.....they are definitely the cream of the crop within the dental profession ;)

 

Thanks, however, i got to tip my hat to you... I can't stand crying kids :P, i know there is always midaz or GA...

 

It is a lot easier to open a NEW practice in metropolitan than a GP without bearing significant amount of risks. But as in my earlier post, being a GP can be rewarding as well..

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stefanci Newbie

stefanci

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Hey guys:

 

Sorry bout not answering earlier, but I lost track of the posting.

 

So her office is in Hamilton...(mid-sized city)

 

But yeah 50-90k, when all is set in stone. Meaning After tax, after paying off everything, student loans, rent, staff, etc.

 

The start was 50k, because it was a new business, but now it's around 90-150k (Since there's ups and downs like every business).

 

The patient base is now around 3000 patients; so the GROSS income is around 400,000.

 

Here's a calculation: ~average around 130$/treatment (let's make it simple!), 15-20patients/day, 10,000$ about per week. (-2880 2 hygienists, 800 reception, 920 assistant) around, $5400/week (after salaries); meaning 22,000$/month. (Now take out rent (4000$), equipment and materials and other office crap($2000); This makes it down to $16,000/mth.

 

Per year, that's 192,000$. (minus 29% tax), means 136,320$ about per year.

 

But I mean, do keep in mind that 15-20patients a day is a pretty high number for a General Practice. Since the general patient base is roughly 1500-2500.

 

I'm really not trying to sell you guys out, that's the honest truth. Those dentists that you see making $700,000 probably are specialists (it is true though, my mom's friend, an oral-maxilofacial surgeon) makes that much money (but works 60-80hrs a week).

 

-Stef

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koft Newbie

koft

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So your number is after tax. Well, it makes a world of difference. if it is 90k pre-tax, i would rather go to hygiene school than spending 100k on tuition.

15 - 20 patients / day. But you also mentioned 2 hygienists (how many FTE is that, just 1 or 1.4 or full 2)? I am guessing if your mom have 1 FTE hygienist then part of her 15 - 20 patients is included in it, because of the hygiene check she had to perform? As well, it was a new practice that she started from nothing, right? And at 3000 active patients, she should be really booked up. Since you only need about 1700 - 2000 active patients to sustain 1 dentist full-time, so technically, she can expand and hire an associate to offset the fixed overhead. Thus making more? I know you number just an estimate. Okay, I agreed that ppl who are making 700k (take home pre-tax) is rare, but most shouldn't have trouble making more than 150k. Most of my friends are making > 150k. some without working weekend/ weeknight at all.

 

 

Hey guys:

 

Sorry bout not answering earlier, but I lost track of the posting.

 

So her office is in Hamilton...(mid-sized city)

 

But yeah 50-90k, when all is set in stone. Meaning After tax, after paying off everything, student loans, rent, staff, etc.

 

The start was 50k, because it was a new business, but now it's around 90-150k (Since there's ups and downs like every business).

 

The patient base is now around 3000 patients; so the GROSS income is around 400,000.

 

Here's a calculation: ~average around 130$/treatment (let's make it simple!), 15-20patients/day, 10,000$ about per week. (-2880 2 hygienists, 800 reception, 920 assistant) around, $5400/week (after salaries); meaning 22,000$/month. (Now take out rent (4000$), equipment and materials and other office crap($2000); This makes it down to $16,000/mth.

 

Per year, that's 192,000$. (minus 29% tax), means 136,320$ about per year.

 

But I mean, do keep in mind that 15-20patients a day is a pretty high number for a General Practice. Since the general patient base is roughly 1500-2500.

 

I'm really not trying to sell you guys out, that's the honest truth. Those dentists that you see making $700,000 probably are specialists (it is true though, my mom's friend, an oral-maxilofacial surgeon) makes that much money (but works 60-80hrs a week).

 

-Stef

________

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