preppy038 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 My IQ is ~130 and i'm a devoted Christian (I'd rate religion as 100% important) I guess I'm an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 That or the charts and his argument are both a bunch of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Guys, relax. The chart is just a play on how religions are dumb on many issues (evolution, certain human rights issues.. etc.. you know the rest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace of Spades Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 There's a major flaw with all religions. They coexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 No, fundamental Muslims tell Muslims to kill anyone who leaves Islam. The Quran has no such wording on the penalty for apostasy in this world. There are many flaws that I can see with the Quran, as well as with other holy books, but this isn't a valid criticism. I believe you're incorrect. Islam as a religion DOES state to kill anyone who leaves the religion. The verses are in the hadith and in turn sharia law. (—Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:58 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271.) In addition, most muslims (sunnis and shiites) include the hadiths as scriptures they see basically as important as the quran (or second to it). Also, there is some mention of this is quran, however people have drawn different interpretations to it. So I guess you're sorta right about the quran not really stating it clearly. However, Islam does state to kill anyone who leaves islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 This thread's starting to become a place to just insult people with different beliefs than yourself, or insult the beliefs themselves. In any case, I think it should be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 No, I'm not incorrect because I only mentioned what's said in the Quran, not the Hadiths. It's also the case that many Muslims do not take the Hadiths as proper supplements to the Quran (eg. Quranists). I don't know how you can say the opposite because I have interacted with Muslims for most of my life (family, friends, etc.). You can't blanket all of Islam like that because it stems from ignorance by only finding out the perspective of the extreme side of the Muslim spectrum. Haha, that's ironic. You can't blanket all of Islam as being quarnists. I've interacted with muslims all my life and continue to do so. I've also read about islam. Sunni muslims are majority in the world, and they have a set of hadiths to follow. Shiites are the next largest and they also have a set of hadiths to follow. And muslims do acknowledge the hadith as playing a part in their religion, not just the quran. There are also some quranists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm a proud practicing Muslim. I am as scientifically minded as I am religious, and I disagree with the common notion that science makes religion obsolete. If anything, science confirms my religious beliefs. The two do not need to be separate. Many of history's great thinkers and contributers to science were men of religion. Al-Kindi made invaluable contributions to the field of optics, Al Razi, the greatest physician of the Islamic world, compiled the most comprehensive encyclopaedia of medicine ever written by a medical man, which runs into 20 volumes: Al-Hawi (Latin, Continens). Let us not forget Sir Isaac Newton, Max Planck and of course...Albert Einstein. Who are we compared to these men who were not only great men of science, but great men of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Good try maher, but nobody here has claimed religion completely inhibits scientific thinking. So don't try to sidetrack this discussion. The point is that Islam dictates, whoever leaves islam should have their heads cut off. (What I mean to say is killed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 cheer up friend , no one who has the same username as bill maher can not be cool. i believe in some sort of organizing consciousness, mostly based on philosophical and mathematical arguments. what our purpose is or why the hell are we here? who knows! i may just be the most cheerful absurdist around, sometimes i just walk around and the world seems like a big funny joke. oh well, hopefully it's a good show to whoever's watching . Good try maher, but nobody here has claimed religion completely inhibits scientific thinking. So don't try to sidetrack this discussion. The point is that Islam dictates, whoever leaves islam should have their heads cut off. (What I mean to say is killed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 read nietzsche's beyond good and evil and you want have to resort to claiming great men of science were religious to argue against scienctism. science has nothing ontological to say about the universe, it's just an epistemological tool used to make our lives more comfortable. you also have to remember that the latter two believed in a more obscure guiding force in the universe rather than one of the anthropomorphic monotheistic religions, and that newton actually wrote a lot of garbage, and was a bit of zealot... it just so happens that we focus on his mathematical genius and not his many bizarre academic hobbies. nothing personal, just sayin I'm a proud practicing Muslim. I am as scientifically minded as I am religious, and I disagree with the common notion that science makes religion obsolete. If anything, science confirms my religious beliefs. The two do not need to be separate. Many of history's great thinkers and contributers to science were men of religion. Al-Kindi made invaluable contributions to the field of optics, Al Razi, the greatest physician of the Islamic world, compiled the most comprehensive encyclopaedia of medicine ever written by a medical man, which runs into 20 volumes: Al-Hawi (Latin, Continens). Let us not forget Sir Isaac Newton, Max Planck and of course...Albert Einstein. Who are we compared to these men who were not only great men of science, but great men of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renin Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 So what do you say when your dying patient asks you to pray with them? I generally say that I wish them well, and other general encouraging words and excuse myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Good try maher, but nobody here has claimed religion completely inhibits scientific thinking. So don't try to sidetrack this discussion. The point is that Islam dictates, whoever leaves islam should have their heads cut off. (What I mean to say is killed) With all due respect, Islam dictates nothing of that sort. You have been misinformed. I will not argue this feable point; any scholar of Islam (whether muslim or non-muslim) will undoubtedly refute your absurd claim. Educate yourself before making grand statements. "How honorable is knowledge, that the one who does not have it, says he does. How dishonorable is ignorance, that the one who has it says he does not" Ali Ibn Abi Taleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 be nice! you do know that a large portion of the people in the chart are technically mentally retarded according to the iq listed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 read nietzsche's beyond good and evil and you want have to resort to claiming great men of science were religious to argue against scienctism. science has nothing ontological to say about the universe, it's just an epistemological tool used to make our lives more comfortable. you also have to remember that the latter two believed in a more obscure guiding force in the universe rather than one of the anthropomorphic monotheistic religions, and that newton actually wrote a lot of garbage, and was a bit of zealot... it just so happens that we focus on his mathematical genius and not his many bizarre academic hobbies. nothing personal, just sayin Dude...your vocab is way above mine...but I think I got the jist of what you were saying, and I agree except that I was not arguing against scientism nor that these great men believed in a monotheistic tradition. I was merely stating that their belief in God did not hinder their scientific capabilities, and so religion and science can co-exist. Also, just a minor point, Islam is a monotheistic religion, but it is not an anthropomorphic one. It is very clear in our tradition that there is nothing like God, whether in appearance or otherwise. P.s. thanks for keeping it clean Peace, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garret9 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 There are people in the world that are smarter, better educated and have studied more than anyone on this forum. Half of them believe in something and the other half say they don't (which in itself is a belief). This flamewar can go on forever but it's predominately pointless. None of you will be able to convince the other. I have my own "beliefs" and I understand others have different ones. Even though I consider their beliefs to be wrong, I would be mistaken in thinking that I can convince people otherwise by arguing, for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 yeah, i agree completely that they can co-exist, they really have nothing to say about each other, since science is based on certain axioms (assumed truths so to speak, such as plato's atomism, for example) and cannot transcend human consciousness (which you sort of have to do to find truth). on the other hand, i believe, in terms of our objectivity, we are all corrupted by our experiences, whether we are atheist, agnostic, religious, spiritual, reductionistic, believe in emergent causation, or anything for that matter... we all have an emotional need to satisfy... or things that have happened to us in our past, which, in essence, hinder us from being "objective" (whatever that would entail, anyways) in our interpretation of the evidence. their belief in God did not hinder their scientific capabilities, and so religion and science can co-exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenarbitor Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm a fan of Jesus Christ. And check this out, http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/nobelistsgod.htm There are very intelligent nobel prize winners who are religious. Science may be more limited than what we like to think it is. Check out this article from the new yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer This article shows exactly how even hard science can be subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 With all due respect, Islam dictates nothing of that sort. You have been misinformed. I will not argue this feable point; any scholar of Islam (whether muslim or non-muslim) will undoubtedly refute your absurd claim. Educate yourself before making grand statements. "How honorable is knowledge, that the one who does not have it, says he does. How dishonorable is ignorance, that the one who has it says he does not" Ali Ibn Abi Taleb Why do you try to cover up what Islam is by lying? It makes it look even more horrible Maher. I think you need to educate yourself about islam before choosing to be a muslim. Islam as a religion DOES state to kill anyone who leaves the religion. The verses are in the hadith and in turn sharia law. (—Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:58 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271.) In addition, most muslims (sunnis and shiites) include the hadiths as scriptures they see basically as important as the quran (or second to it). Also, there is some mention of how to treat apostates in quran, however people have drawn different interpretations to it, so I can't say the quran itself directly says to kill a non-believer. However, Islam does state to kill anyone who leaves islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 i believe in some sort of organizing consciousness, mostly based on philosophical and mathematical arguments. what our purpose is or why the hell are we here? who knows! i may just be the most cheerful absurdist around, sometimes i just walk around and the world seems like a big funny joke. oh well, hopefully it's a good show to whoever's watching . I like your outlook, it resonates with a lot of people I know and probably this generation of students as a whole. It's universal! We'll figure out more and more as we go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Why do you try to cover up what Islam is by lying? It makes it look even more horrible Maher. I think you need to educate yourself about islam before choosing to be a muslim. Islam as a religion DOES state to kill anyone who leaves the religion. The verses are in the hadith and in turn sharia law. (—Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:58 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271.) In addition, most muslims (sunnis and shiites) include the hadiths as scriptures they see basically as important as the quran (or second to it). Also, there is some mention of how to treat apostates in quran, however people have drawn different interpretations to it, so I can't say the quran itself directly says to kill a non-believer. However, Islam does state to kill anyone who leaves islam. You cannot say anything, you have 0 knowledge in the Islamic Sciences so I suggest you desist. I read text after text about Islam for years, attended lectures my prominent scholars, read the Quran in its authentic Arabic language and memorized many parts of it, explored the sciences of Hadiths, which is a whole field on its own, so I need no lesson on my religion from someone like you. "Debating an ignorant tires me". Believe what you like. You have your beliefs and I have mine. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Islam as a religion DOES state to kill anyone who leaves the religion ...just don't go around spreading lies about other people's religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darknebula Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 To OP: Was it really necessary to create a thread that you already knew was going to make people bash each others' religions/views? My little head cant wrap around the fact that some random guy on a premed forum would be curious to know others' religions. Geez. Stop making these threads. Go to some religious forums or something. This a PREMED forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Md4mepl0x Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 related: another 35 dead in a Moscow airport as a religious extremist detonated a suicide bomb. When will the world learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I think it's important to remember that you only see extreme cases in the media that don't actually reflect the true/basic values in the different faiths, and you can't judge all religious people based on the actions of a few crazies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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