Tell me this isn't true - Traditional interviews vs MMI

[Alastriss]

ok first few SECONDS to minutes is not enough to know someone at all. doesn't it scare people that this is actually the case? This basically says there is a lot of fluke involved.

[rmorelan]

ok first few SECONDS to minutes is not enough to know someone at all. doesn't it scare people that this is actually the case? This basically says there is a lot of fluke involved.

 

Yeah it is a bit scary, no doubt about it - makes you think though, if you become a doctor you really have about the same amount of time, say 0-2 minutes tops to make your impression to your patients. My guess is that doctors really do have to be able to make a good impression fast, its actually a required job skill.

[medaholic]

Within the first few minutes you can usually start to get a picture of how a person presents himself. I wouldn't say a handshake or nice suit makes that much of a difference, but it doesn't hurt.

 

I think what's really important is how you project your voice and the clarity of your arguments and opinions. Especially for the MMI, interviewees who did poor usually began to ramble within the first few minutes. The best applicants took the time to evaluate, frame the question, summarize and explore all aspects of the question.

 

You'd be surprised how many people that do NOT address the question prompts. If you can't read and understand what the MMI station is asking for, you are at a disadvantage.

[BigManOnCampus]

As much as it isn't fair, medicine is a field that places just as much - if not more - importance on self-presentation. People don't go to see their doctor for no reason. When they do, they expect to interact with someone who is not only competent, caring, intelligent, and confident, but they also want someone who looks the part as well. This goes a long way in patient satisfaction, likelihood to prosecute following an error, etc. Unfortunately for the basement-dwelling book worms, this isn't a good sign.

[Alastriss]

Medaholic - there is a big difference between formulating an opinion in the first few minutes and already arriving at a decision in the first few seconds to minutes.

 

rmorelan - I am one of those people that sincerely believes the level of marketing you have to do in the interview is just way too much for what is needed in medicine. I don't hear any stories about a patient who is like "Ok I don't like you, I want a second opinion now" a few minutes after meeting a doctor. After they screw up or just aren't delivering it maybe, but not in the first few minutes.

 

Bigmanoncampus - Self-presentation is important no doubt. I believe in being well groomed well dressed and all tat stuff a lot more than the average individual. But say you say something that just doesn't jive. Maybe you do a sport that they don't like, maybe you ask a question where you don't have a super good response to, but had they asked a different question first you would have been in an entirely different boat. I agree that first impressions are important, but to say that the first few seconds to few minutes are what constitutes the "first impression" is either absolutely crazy or a failure of the panel style.

[rmorelan]

rmorelan - I am one of those people that sincerely believes the level of marketing you have to do in the interview is just way too much for what is needed in medicine. I don't hear any stories about a patient who is like "Ok I don't like you, I want a second opinion now" a few minutes after meeting a doctor. After they screw up or just aren't delivering it maybe, but not in the first few minutes.

 

I would agree that the interview is an exaggeration of what is actually required in practice. I would sure hope substance wins in the end over style

 

So are most things just exaggerations I suppose - I mean how often do you really get confronted with one of these extreme ethics scenarios they often bring up. Sure it happens, but not for most doctors, and not in any real frequency. Still we spend hours/days reviewing all these ethics rules/cases so we are prepared for the interview. It probably isn't a bad idea to also spend hours learning how to make a good impression as well.

[Alastriss]

I would agree that the interview is an exaggeration of what is actually required in practice. I would sure hope substance wins in the end over style

 

So are most things just exaggerations I suppose - I mean how often do you really get confronted with one of these extreme ethics scenarios they often bring up. Sure it happens, but not for most doctors, and not in any real frequency. Still we spend hours/days reviewing all these ethics rules/cases so we are prepared for the interview. It probably isn't a bad idea to also spend hours learning how to make a good impression as well.

 

well of course not, but a good impression is much less a function of your own effort since it counts on how they perceive you. Freak accidents can also occur. Example, at one interview my buddy was told by the med student escort to knock on the door and see if they were ready for him. He did, and it turns out they weren't and said they would call him when they were. Now that may have ruined his chances according to the "first impression theory" if one of the three got peeved, but this hardly constitutes a valid reason for holding it against him.

[supafield]

- I mean how often do you really get confronted with one of these extreme ethics scenarios they often bring up. Sure it happens, but not for most doctors, and not in any real frequency.

 

Lol low and behold the first day of shadowing I did, the doctor was using very ambiguous wording introducing me that lead to the assumption that I was a medical student, and then when asked to sign in I was asked what medical school I went to, and the doctor was a friend which I had to be very diplomatic in correcting..... haha it was like acting out lesson one ethics class.

 

But for the most part I agree lol.

[BigManOnCampus]

Bigmanoncampus - Self-presentation is important no doubt. I believe in being well groomed well dressed and all tat stuff a lot more than the average individual. But say you say something that just doesn't jive. Maybe you do a sport that they don't like, maybe you ask a question where you don't have a super good response to, but had they asked a different question first you would have been in an entirely different boat. I agree that first impressions are important, but to say that the first few seconds to few minutes are what constitutes the "first impression" is either absolutely crazy or a failure of the panel style.

 

Don't get me wrong, substance is the most important aspect of an applicant. I'm not trying to suggest that style will somehow override any applicant's particular shortcomings. What I'm trying to get across is that affability and personality, which are often assessed in the first few seconds to a minute, provide more sway than most people recognize, for better or for worse. Moreover, it's been my experience that one doesn't need to necessarily be a master politicker to make a great impression given the interpersonal skills of many applicants. You may disagree, but my sentiments have been mirrored by others as well. All interviewees have the intelligence to make it as physicians. Image and presentation now weigh heavy.

[princess19]

I would agree that the interview is an exaggeration of what is actually required in practice. I would sure hope substance wins in the end over style

 

So are most things just exaggerations I suppose - I mean how often do you really get confronted with one of these extreme ethics scenarios they often bring up. Sure it happens, but not for most doctors, and not in any real frequency. Still we spend hours/days reviewing all these ethics rules/cases so we are prepared for the interview. It probably isn't a bad idea to also spend hours learning how to make a good impression as well.

 

is it really necessary to take a few hours to learn this? isn't it basically common sense? now i'm worried that i'm missing something huge when introducing myself lol

[rmorelan]

is it really necessary to take a few hours to learn this? isn't it basically common sense? now i'm worried that i'm missing something huge when introducing myself lol

 

Gah! I don't want to cause people to start second guessing their ability to interact with the interviewers.

 

As a part of my job as a software engineer/project manager I have to hire and review the employers that work under me in my company for a variety of positions. The people we interview are all intelligent educated people near the to the top of their class - this is the closest thing I personally can relate to the medical interview process outside of the interviews I personally did this year. Everyone knows to prepare for an interview, but there is still a huge difference in the professional "presence" that each candidate has. Since I already know they can managed the technical side of the job (people pre screened) this ability to handle themselves in a stressful situation is one of the main things I am looking for. If is subjective, but I have received training designed to help combat that (hr specialization as a part of my pysch degree). I also have an full blown HR rep to help me

 

Your standard interview prep should help with this though - in my opinion you should practice answering questions in the presence of a critical audience, including the introduction part and first contact. At the very least this will make you more comfortable, and better on the actual day!

[Halcyon]

To expand on what rmorelan posted...

 

Whether we like it or not, projecting a professional image is important for interviews. Med school interviews are job interviews....you get in and you are on your way to a MD.

In an application process that has an abundance of qualified candidates, the interview is yet another way to screen out applicants. Having worked in HR myself, you see the entire package counts, from qualifications to how the applicant interviews. All things being equal, would you pick the more personable applicant A or less personable applicant B? Who will be a better representative of your company/ organization? Or, in our case, who will be a better representative of the field of medicine?

That being said, be natural, friendly, smile, relax, or whatever you do best. If you have made it this far, it is your chance to shine!

 

Hope all your dreams come true! Good luck to all

[Alastriss]

I think we aren't disagreeing, we are agreeing. There is a big difference between a guy who walks in looking unprofessionally (ie ungroomed, not well dressed, improper etiquette and mannerisms) and a guy who does walk in professionally but for some reason just doesn't jive with the interviewer in the first few seconds. Of course image is important lol, who would even consider arguing that, but perception of image is simply something out of your control, and it is that which was the real motivation behind starting this thread.

[abcwxyz]

The best answers to this question can be found by reading primary papers by Kevin Eva, the professor at McMaster who pioneered the MMI.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14996341?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

^ This is the seminal paper and reading it and the papers it cites will give you the best answer you're going to get.

 

Other papers by Eva give a lot more information on the MMI process and how it compares to the traditional interview.

 

There are whole journals dedicated to medical education and a significant number of primary papers published on both interviews and medical school admissions. Primary papers are the only place that you're going to find answers to your question; the anecdotal evidence found in this thread is largely irrelevant, particularly on well studied subjects that have peer reviewed primary papers devoted to them. No offense to anyone that has posted.

[Halcyon]

There's a difference between what the research states and what is done in practice. Yes, some of it does translate into "real life" interviews, but some of it is human nature. Teaching people not to form judgements is a difficult undertaking.

 

There's an entire field of HR called "recruitment and selection". Eva's research ties into that with a medical school twist. However, it comes down to what research is put into practice that really counts and impacts medical school admissions.

 

Best wishes!

H

[Jochi1543]

I don't hear any stories about a patient who is like "Ok I don't like you, I want a second opinion now" a few minutes after meeting a doctor. After they screw up or just aren't delivering it maybe, but not in the first few minutes.

 

No, done that myself (obviously, didn't tell her that or cut our appt short, but never went back to her).

[Alastriss]

No, done that myself (obviously, didn't tell her that or cut our appt short, but never went back to her).

 

yeah but again, not in the first few seconds/minutes. Obviously she must have not impressed you throughout the meeting for you to not go back. That's a different story. Unless your meeting was a few seconds - minutes, in which case i would love to hear that story.